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Author Topic: Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan  (Read 260 times)

Intensecure

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2004, 03:17:00 AM »
QUOTE
some really poor intelligence

Yes, I agree there is plenty of that here, and there. And it would appear that there is evidence (quoting the Guardian newspaper) that the discussion to invade Iraq came prior to 9/11, and there was ample evidence that no WMDs existed as several UN inspectors have testified to. There was no compelling evidence, and political motives may well have been prevalent - IMHO, I repeat IMO.
There is a lot of historical precedent for the USA (and it's poodle allies) wanting to gain control of the Middle East and oil producing companies. Unfortunately, I cannot sit here and access all my reference sources, but one would be "Deterring democracy" by Noan Chomsky.
OK, I admit to being on the left of wherever you sit politically (another assumption!) wink.gif and repeat my link to http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm, and http://www.indymedia.../en/index.shtml for sources of information that are not "sanctioned" before being broadcast on CNN.
So I would call them OPINIONS, based on some level of research, not plain ASSUMPTIONS. Although we may end up discussing semantics instead...
I still think refering to any civilians of any country as "fucks", and wishing death upon them goes beyond any kind of assumption.
I at least respect your level of argument.
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BloodyMary

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2004, 03:29:00 AM »
QUOTE (SniperKilla @ May 15 2004, 07:09 AM)
im sorry i cant hang with all the fucking scholars on the internet.. but i can have my own opinion without being called an idiot and having my education and experience questioned..

Not questioning your education or experience.

Not even sure what your trying to say... of course I will say that I believe that there is no one on these forums that wouldn't agree that they would rather '3000 of them then me or my family' ... maybe that's what you meant... I'm not sure...
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Intensecure

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2004, 03:51:00 AM »
QUOTE
im sorry i cant hang with all the fucking scholars on the internet.. but i can have my own opinion without being called an idiot and having my education and experience questioned..

Yes, and I apologise. Just don't call people caught up in a conflict that they can barely comprehend "fucks", although I understand the emotional feeling that can cause such a phrase to be used, and I responded equally irrationally by abusing you. I'm sorry for that.
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BloodyMary

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2004, 11:42:00 AM »
QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 15 2004, 12:59 PM)
Pre-emptive strike mentality.  How much are you willing to sacrifice for this sense of security?  If this crush-all-who-resist mindset is humanity, maybe we need to rise to something better.  Giving up others freedoms for your own, I'd call that a pretty good definition of greed.  I wouldnt say my life is worth the death of even one iraqi.  Why? because lives aren't currency.  Why war supporters cling to numbers for civilian casualties, saying it was very insignificant, I'll never understand.

You obviously missed the point I was making.. but based on what you followed up with... I can see that you're obviously just against me no matter what I write... so I'll leave it to that...
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mamajo

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2004, 04:51:00 PM »
Ok boys get ready to flame, here is what I have to say...
If Saddam didn't have weapons then why didn't he tell the world that. When America declared he had weapons he was like "um weapons... uh no weapons here but don't send the inspectors because I am telling the truth."  If he didn't have WMD he could have just let the inspectors walk in (I know he did eventually but not immediately, maybe the weapons were moved in this time?) and find nothing, then claim America is retarded. Help me, flame me, whatever!
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HeLiuM

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2004, 08:19:00 PM »
QUOTE (mamajo @ May 16 2004, 01:51 AM)
Ok boys get ready to flame, here is what I have to say...
If Saddam didn't have weapons then why didn't he tell the world that. When America declared he had weapons he was like "um weapons... uh no weapons here but don't send the inspectors because I am telling the truth."  If he didn't have WMD he could have just let the inspectors walk in (I know he did eventually but not immediately, maybe the weapons were moved in this time?) and find nothing, then claim America is retarded. Help me, flame me, whatever!

I'd really like to see your source for that
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Intensecure

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2004, 09:08:00 PM »
QUOTE
If he didn't have WMD he could have just let the inspectors walk in

Because as ruler of a sovereign state he does not have to answer to the USA. He complied with the UN requirements and they found no evidence of WMD.
The USAs attack on Iraq was not related to WMD as has been discussed elsewhere.
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koldfuzion

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2004, 09:45:00 PM »
QUOTE
Because as ruler of a sovereign state he does not have to answer to the USA. He complied with the UN requirements and they found no evidence of WMD.


the inspectors were UN inspectors.  He kicked out the UN inspectors, they didnt leave because they were finished.

As the ruler of a soverign state, no he doesnt have to listen to the US or anyone else.  But those sanctions really hurt dont they. Not being an international playa can make life suck at home.  If he didnt oppress his people, he would have been "impeached" a long time ago.

QUOTE
local cultural control

I for one would love to have this over them... I would make them all provide me with a proper toilet and toilet paper when i visit. To-Hell with squating and washing your hands afterwards.


QUOTE
Bloody Mary is just one of those people (I hate to use this but it is a good analogy), who is happy to be plugged into the matrix.


BM is always known to speak his mind and have his own (if not a very strong) opinion. So how can he be the one plugged in, wasnt the self awareness and true freedom the whole reason to unplug?   You were the one that plugged the links to the nonsense made readily available to anyone willing to read it and believe in it.  AND YOU DO. Yes! you have to BELIEVE that crap to be willing to base an arguement on it.


Clusterbombs for caves,  not really but something like it, and no, not the bunker busters either because they cant penetrate well enough.   They used high explosive (read big fireball) bombs the would create a huge flame to burn off all the oxygen in the cave....from the entrance. they would either die and be forced out.


QUOTE
The USAs attack on Iraq was not related to WMD as has been discussed elsewhere.


I HOPE the attack wasnt based on WMD, it would be a much nicer gesture to the iraqi people that survive the war if we did it only to liberate them from thier murderous dictator.   Maybe if your leader had your family killed, or your whole town, you could see past the primary issue for the war and be acceptable to the secondary issues.   It was luck to find Saddam in the spiderhole, dont think he couldnt bury the WMD too.

How do you know its not his WMD (or just bad genes, bad luck, local sewage treatment) that is causing the illnesses to the iraqi people and be willing to leave the blame solely on the US for shootig some bullets?  I guess everyone in the US that has leukemia has been bombed by G.W.'s clusterbombs too.

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nemt

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2004, 05:30:00 AM »
QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 16 2004, 01:08 AM)
The USAs attack on Iraq was not related to WMD as has been discussed elsewhere.

I don't believe in humanitarian wars, even if Saddam had killed nearly one million of his own people.  My view, however, was not shared by the Bush administration, as it used the great many non-wmd arguments for going to war - but somehow no one remembers anything else.  Every country in the first world and the last four white house administrations had determined Saddam had WMDs, and if anyone doubted it they could look at Iranian veterans or Kurdish civilians.  Saddam was a danger to the mideast, and the rest of the world.  The arab league supported him until the bitter end, and the first world came in to show the arab league they aren't in charge anymore.
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HeLiuM

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2004, 07:30:00 AM »
QUOTE (mamajo @ May 16 2004, 03:36 PM)
Here you go jackass.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4125720/
But if Saddam didn't have weapons of mass destruction, why didn't he come clean? After all, he could have given U.N. inspectors free rein; he could have allowed them to interview all of his scientists in private—even outside the country—and let them rummage through his palaces. Faced with war, wasn't that the sensible option?

If you can't debate like a big boy go home.

As for your source, I see nothing in there about Saddam saying "um weapons... uh no weapons here but don't send the inspectors because I am telling the truth."

Dictators like to be in power.  They don't like foreign countries meddling in their affairs (sound familiar?).  Ever think maybe he didn't allow UN investigators because he didn't want UN involvement in what he saw as his business?
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melon

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2004, 11:23:00 AM »
If Saddam had weapons of mass distruction dont you think he would of used them when our forces were bombing the fuck out of his country???

We couldnt of retaliated with heavier weapons (chemical etc) as (dont know about the US so wont say), the public in the UK would of kicked tony blair out of power straight away.

If he had W'sMD

WHY DIDNT HE USE THEM???????????????????????
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koldfuzion

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2004, 12:13:00 PM »
and if he didnt,  why didnt he just allow the the inspections and be the leader of a country instead of what he was and what he did to his own.

neither you or I know what he did or didnt have.  But the voice of the international community should always be greater than one country.  If not, fine. live in isolation.  But to cry for help by lifting sanctions without being willing to meet the demands of other nations is crazy..and he was.
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BloodyMary

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2004, 02:10:00 PM »
QUOTE (koldfuzion @ May 16 2004, 01:45 AM)
BM is always known to speak his mind and have his own (if not a very strong) opinion. So how can he be the one plugged in, wasnt the self awareness and true freedom the whole reason to unplug?   You were the one that plugged the links to the nonsense made readily available to anyone willing to read it and believe in it.  AND YOU DO. Yes! you have to BELIEVE that crap to be willing to base an arguement on it.

I thank you, KF, for pointing that out... Just so others know... certainly KF has pointed out to me times when I was having my own opinion and a strong one at that.. and also pointed out that I was being an asshole in my opinion...

I do have some very strong opinions about a lot of subjects... and a lot of times I believe that I am right (if someone can prove me wrong, then I welcome them to do so).  People making stupid statements to me, about me like 'you're plugged into the matrix' is fucking retard talk and obviously they haven't read many of my posts.  You can feel free to say that I'm an asshole about a certain topic or so... but to generalize me as an asshole, you would just be wrong, but feel free to generalize and I'll feel free to say fuck you, you ugly piece of shit.

Back on topic...
QUOTE
W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan

Ummm... ok then if we really wanted to wipe em off the earth... we could have no problem... Certainly the means of 'getting the enemy' in Afghanastan was using to pretty heafty artillary, but it still wasn't using weapons of mass destruction.  As far as what the military used in Iraq... um.. nothing close to WMD's there either... Am I'm I gung ho for the U.S. going into Iraq to 'liberate' its people?  Hell no...  Do I think that the U.S. (and the other countries) wiping out the Taliban in Afganistan was the right thing to do? You bet your ass it was... Am I sorry that there were/are civilian casualties? Yes... it would be great if a war could be fought by either capturing or destroying only the forces that are fighting against you... unfortunately, this is not the reality of war...
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melon

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Our W'smd Used Against Iraq And Afghanastan
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2004, 11:21:00 AM »
QUOTE
But the voice of the international community should always be greater than one country.


and the voice of the international community was against war in Iraq but one country led the way. Any guess who?

oh and coldfusion you belittle peoples spelling. I dont think this is fair. Just because somebody spells something wrong doesnt mean the point they were making is meaningless. On a site like this most people will tend to be better mathmaticians and scientists rather than literates. Also America spells words differently to the rest of the english speaking world so you shouldnt really throw stones in glass houses.
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