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[adrenaline_X]

As the topic suggests, this thread will deal with fixing your Dead RROD - errors 0102-0022-0021 - e74. By baking it in the oven.. Cooling Mods are a must after baking it to stop if from RROD again.

Back ground :

Bought a broken 360 that was RROD error 0102.  I used the x-clamp replacement that uses m5 bolts through the bottom of the case as well as adding Artic Silver 5 Thermal paste. I also cut out the wire mesh by the fans as well as cutting out some of the plastic at the back. This Fix worked for a about 4 to 5 months of Light usage on a normal tube tv. You can search the forums if you want to read up on the x-clamp mod and why it fixes the rrod.  My 360 stopped working completely and loosening or tightening the screws would give me either the RROD of e74 and secondary codes related to the GPU or unknown. I had baked other 360s in the past and results were mixed for a lot of people.. some revived their completely dead 360s and other melted and blew up their capacitors.  Check this thread out for my first run at baking them in the oven. This is a oven virgin and hasn't been baked/heat gunned/ etc ( http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?sho...629455&st=0 )


I did a lot of reading up on the causes of the RROD and symptoms and about re-flowing / re-balling fixing the RROD.  Search the forums if you want to learn more about re-balling / re-flowing.

The Method:

Pre-Heat your oven to 500F (240-260C) . This was the max my oven would go and I verified it with a oven thermometer. This Temperature  is above the melting point of lead free solder. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead-free_solder)
Place the prepared  360 in the oven for 8-10 minutes

This time around I decided to try some things differently.. the first time around, caps began leaking, and everything was smoking and sizzling.. The 360 still worked, but leaking cap isn't the best thing in the world. This time around I decided to pinpoint the heat that the motherboard received.   I did't have insulation handy (i live in an apartment) so I dug threw my dresser for some old shirts (2 to be exact plus some wool socks) First thing i did was remove the mother board from the case and then removed  xclamp fix so all i had is the mother board with all the removable parts removed (sata cables,  ROL board and fans)  Second I wrapped my  thick shirts around one side of the board (top and bottom) leaving the gpu and cpu exposed.

if the pictures aren't working check here :

http://picasaweb.google.ca/Michael.L.Fulle...BakingADead360#


(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pnmi6PeZSIo/SRj7Y4X36GI/AAAAAAAADlQ/zvehFX8OlS8/s1024/DSC02088.JPG)


Note : I added socks to open parts here so that all you could see was the bottom of the gpu and cpu

(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pnmi6PeZSIo/SRj7Z1qLYPI/AAAAAAAADlg/uGTz1qmvx-4/s1024/DSC02090.JPG)


 I did the same for the other side of the board and kept it in place with electrical tape . So what i had left is the cpu and gpu dies exposed on both sides of the board with all the capicators and eject buttons insulated with a thick layer of clothing.. Next I wrapped the both sides of the board with a double layer of tin foil, completely covering everything. Use Wire to keep it in place (i used electrical tape but it melted and began smoking.

(IMG:http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pnmi6PeZSIo/SRj8u7aiNiI/AAAAAAAADl8/-Ctm1nwd25Q/s1024/DSC02092.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pnmi6PeZSIo/SRj7agtH8GI/AAAAAAAADlo/yO0C5uXNSoQ/s1024/DSC02091.JPG)
(IMG:http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pnmi6PeZSIo/SRj8ukyLCcI/AAAAAAAADl0/zwiBiFGflus/s1024/DSC02093.JPG)


 Then I carefully made a slit to expose the cpu and gpu dies and folded the tin foil down and under the clothes. (picture 2).  After making sure everything was well covered, I placed in on a cookie sheet and placed it in the pre-heated oven for 8-10 minutes.. I noticed some smoke about 5 minutes in so i quickly took it out.. to my relief it was just the electrical tape on the out side of the tin foil melting and burning so I placed it back in to keep baking for another 5 minutes.

I let it cool and removed the tinfoil and clothing.. I inspected the board and everything was like it was before. The caps weren't bulging this time around and the electical tape holding the clothes in place was soft but in tack.  I removed all the old thermal past and applied a new layer of Artic  silver 5. I used two washers thick between the motherboard and gpu heat sync and 1 washer between the motherboard and cpu heatsync.. I lightly tightened the bolts just enough to provide adequate heat transfer from the dies to the heatsync... I turned it on and it fired up.. Then I turned it off..

Next I did the 12 GPU cooling mod found here. You don't have to cut your fan wires to do this so it was quick and easy. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=637955.   This step is NEEDED because if you can't keep the GPU die cool, the RROD will mos likely come back from everything flexing again and breaking the contact between the chip and the mother board.  You want to keep the GPU heat sync cool enough so that you can keep you hand on it while someone is playing halo 3 or gears of war... split my fan shroud so that the GPU fan ONLY sucks air though the GPU heat sync.. I found the 12v fan mod to the gpu to be too loud and just switched it to the 9v mod listed on the link above.. The Heat sync was still hot to the touch so i added tape to the bottom of the shroud to make sure the air wasn't leaking under it.. I used incense to watch the air flow and saw that is was leaking in behind the GPU cooler. Once I removed all the air gaps, the Heat synce was slightly warm to the touch while Playing GOW2 for HOURS (like 4-5 hours).

So far i have about 20-30 hours on this 360 after baking it two weeks ago.. between playing COD4 , GOW2 and Guitar hero, it is still trucking.. I spent alot time testing to make sure the heat sync was slightly warm to the the touch and NOT BURNING HOT.

If you aren't going to do the cooling fan mod, don't bother trying this.. First time I did this a year ago I didn't do any cooling mods and the GPU heat sync was too hot to touch..

Anyhow... Once again I took a completely dead 360 and made it work again..    

I had tried the using m5 bolts and washers for the x-clamp mod..
I had tried using pieces of a credit card in the 4 corners of the GPU die to give equal pressure on the chip. (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=657442)
I pretty much tried everything, and read through a lot of fixes and before I sold the console for parts i thought i would try baking this 360..

Anyhow, i thought I would post my findings incase anyone is in a similar situation.  I have a 1 year old arcade (falcon) that i use for main 360 but this one had the DVD flashed so i didn't want to get rid of it but i also didn't care if i melted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Post Results  if you attempt it and the cooling mods
- Adrenaline_x

This post has been edited by adrenaline_X: Nov 11 2008, 06:18 AM

[Thundercleese]

nice man, im considering doing this myself with my 0031 box. obviously if i had the proper tools i wouldnt but a fixed box is a good box no matter how. Just wondering is it still working fine right now after about 2 months?

[Lugnut]

I know im not the original poster Thunder, but i perform a similar fix to one of my rrod 360's.  I tried 2 of them with a similar method to this post but caps would leak so i would heat the board to 350 F then heatgun the gpu to try to reflow. both box's worked for a few weeks then they were dead again 0102's.  Later someone gave me a third xbox that had 0020, but they had put their xclamp fix too tight and when i loosened them it showed 0102 instead.  After many tests with my now previously dead boards. I had come to the conclusion that i can reflow the solder on the whole board using my toaster oven as long as i had prepared it right.

I have no real temp control. I put a piece of coiled solder on the mobo inbetween the gpu, and cpu.  I put the toaster oven on broil.  Once i see the solder coil melt i let it stay for 2 more minutes I'll usually touch various other components on the board to make sure their solder has melted and then let it cool.

Notes on Toaster oven use:

1. All caps must be removed and replaced after reflow.
2. All power/video/memorycard/usb connectors can stay on the board and will not melt if I do it right.
3. I reflow the board leaving it in the cage so no components underneath can touch anything and be knocked off. Surface tension seems to be strong enough to keep anything from falling off as long as its not knocked around.
4. Once the board is reflowed you can check it with the PSU to see if it will boot, even without any caps .  This way you don't waste your time rebuilding it if it doesnt work. I'm sure the system would not be stable to try to run in this state but it's a good quick way to find out whether or not to bother replacing the caps.

So far system has worked fine. I modded the fans to roughly 9v, I havent had another system to try it again though.

[M1zch13f_m0d5]

Personally I wouldn't trust my 360 in the hands of my oven, thats just me

[Thundercleese]

tks for the tips lugnut. Im still on the fence with this one, just keeping it as a Last resort option before I give up and sell it as rrod box on ebay. This method might not even solve my problem at all, but ive gotten no replies in my help thread so im considering everything.

Normally i wouldnt trust my oven with my 360 either.

[Zantac]

guys..use a heat gun........protect your capacitors with tin foil and heat the GPU .....i believe thats the main problem.........check my post i fixed mine and its been running fine for like 2 weeks straight.........i migt mention that i did a cooling mod as well

[angusbeef]

I've been lurking on several forums the past few days since I now have someone's 360 to fix.   I don't have a 360 myself so I started from the beginning to get a historical perspective of the rrod fixes and it seems that reflowing has been the best solution so far.  Most people with the x-clamp fix proclaim "Its fixed!!" after 1 hour of playing, only to respond 2 weeks later that the rrod came back.  It seems that it's not necessarily the long grueling gaming sessions that do the damage, but after several days, weeks, or months of usage which heats and cools the board over and over.  So be careful to proclaim your system fixed even if it "burns in" for 6 hours successfully.

With that said, adrenaline_x's oven bake might not be as crazy as it seems.  The heat gun fix has been somewhat successful, but I think where it falls short is in evenly heating both sides of the board and also providing a uniform and accurate temperature.  I think that these are causes for why it works for some people and doesn't for others.

On another forum there is a thread where a few people are using a cheap electric skillet with bolts acting as stands to set the motherboard on.  This heats the underside of the board without having to move it, then they use a reflow station to heat the areas on top around the GPU to the exact temperature they want.  The success rate sounds to be very high and at least one guy does 20+ boards a week.  These guys are essentially doing the same thing as a cheap and dirty heat gun fix, but being able to perform exactly the same procedure each time down to the same degree in temperature and same number of seconds all while keeping the heat evenly distributed.

Putting the board in an oven would allow you to monitor what the temperature is and to heat the board evenly.  It sounds crazy, but if adrenaline_X's method of covering the other components does protect them enough, it just might work.  I might buy a cheap remote oven thermometer and practice on a old PC motherboard.  I want to cover up parts of it and measure the difference in temperature to the parts that aren't covered up, because I think that is the main stumbling block.

I also found these instructions on using a toaster oven for reflow work, similar to what Lugnut mentioned. It could be a better option as it would heat and cool faster, but I don't have a toaster oven.

http://www.instructa...-Soldering-BGA/

A few days ago when I started googling on how to fix a 360 it seemed like an easy thing to do.  But as I've chronicled what has been done for the past year, it seems to date there is no definite fix.  Reflowing seems like the most viable solution, but we can only wait to give the recent round of systems "fixed" by this method time to determine that.  The high temperature and poor cooling of xbox 360s seems to be the root cause, and I think that also needs to be remedied or no matter what you will be haunted again by the rrod.

I just thought I would share my observations.  I am by no means an expert on any of this and please keep in mind I have not tried to fix mine yet.  I am one of those computer guys who always gets asked to look at electronics when they are broken and this time its a 360.  While I'm attempting to fix something, I always go for the best solution possible rather than some quick easy fix and this time it has been very difficult to find!

[adrenaline_X]

Update.

IT DIED AGAIN after the gpu fan started turning slowly (bad solder point on MOBO maybe for my 9v fan mod) and I didn't feel like fixing it...   it lasted about 60 days under instense gow2, (played the full game on it) cod 4 and 5, gh3, need for speed and dirt.  After the fan sort of died i could tell it was really hot but I was too lazy (got engaged) to spend time taking it a apart to fix it, so i let it go till it died


I finally took it apart and re-baked it at 500-550 for 10 minutes  last night.. I had my heatsync screws on TOO tight last time so i made them snug this time... baked at 500-550 (overn thermometer) on top of a cookie cooling rack which was placed ONTOP of a cookie/baking  pan in the oven to block direct heat to the bottom of the MOBO when the element came on.

PRE-HEATED  over before putting it in.

no damage to the caps or any of the buttons.. i used two ripped up t-shirts to insulate the board leaving the gpu and cpu dies exposed on top and below.

Re-installed MOBO in metal case and x-clamp fix (3 washed between mobo and metal case, plus two washers between mobo and heat sync (gpu) and one between cpu).  

Plugged it in and it loaded the dash board.. check gpu heat sync with my hand after about 10 minutes and it was warm and not burning hot (fixed fan issue)

i will start using this one as my main console and see how it does this time around.

Sorry about not posting earlier but I've been busy

i wonder if i could find liquid flux to aid in re-flowing the solder balls if that IS what is happening in the oven.

i love messing with this stuff

if it dies again, i'm going to verify the die temp after it comes out of the oven with a laser temp gauge (didn't have it on hand)

[Vauxfan]

I have done this method with the two consoles in my sig, both working strongly still and played daily

I just used a T-shirt, unripped, made the 360 wear it and wrapped the rest in tinfoil. Left the CPU/GPU and all the ram chips exposed.

Apply x-clamp fix, cooling shroud extended and the sides of the shroud sealed with old mains lead insulation, once the xbox is used a couple of times the insulation moulds to the shape of the components on the board and gives a good seal.

I get loads of heat out the back and the sides are cooler than the air coming out.

[Lugnut]

thats great, i just realized i never stated how long the console has been running. its been around 2 months. It gets daily or every other day usage.  I prefer to reflow the whole board thus the reason i didnt try to insulate the caps etc etc like you guys.  I figure an hours worth of removing caps is worth having the whole board reflowed. Besides some woman watch tv and knit,  I watch tv and install/remove caps from boards. lol.  And no i would not trust my oven to electronics.  I bought a $50 GE toaster oven from walmart that was big enough to fit the whole 360 chassis in.  I'm going to start looking for thermocouplers soon and maybe a digital temp gauge so i can more accuratly watch/control  temps.

[wyldstallions]

This method works well as its a lot more easy to control temperature than simply waving a heat gun around.

However it is important to protect all the caps and plastic bits like eject buttons etc as these can be easily damaged and make for a much harder time.

Preparation is the key. These forums are filled with people that haven't protected vulnerable parts when heat gunning etc and then have then run into serious problems,

I found socks, electrical tape, blu tac and lots of tin foil are ideal for this, then 5 mins at 230ºC has worked well so far for me. The longer and hotter you do it the more chance of heat damaging another part. Not enough heat/time and it won't last. But I found you can repeat this method if thats the case.

You should also look into also adding other fixes though such as x-clamps, and correcting the chassis problem for a longer term fix.

[killamayne]

I had high sucess with this. I like this vs. the heatgun method.

My consoles last longer with this method.

This post has been edited by killamayne: Jan 8 2009, 09:36 PM

[adrenaline_X]

Good to hear it's working out.

What chasis fixes are you talking about?

I did my fan shroud mod so that NO air was leaking from under and around the shroud(split fan shroud ). I used incense smoke to test it .. no leaks + plus 9volt fan mod (gpu only side), and the gpu runs warm to the tough.. Before it would burn my finger almost instantly

[Lugnut]

I think hes speaking of the fixs mentioned in team hybrid's tutorial.

[wyldstallions]

Heres my take on this one.

I was investigating why my motherboard was so distorted and why also it wouldn't screw down straight. You can see this by removing the rear fans/shroud and looking in the rear with everything else screwed down, the motherboard is forcibly distorted upwards in the middle as the center chassis pegs are too high. I posted this here in the forums a couple of months ago before the willhelms revised guide was out (but they seemed to have found the same), but nobody seemed to take much notice.

I fixed my pegs with a hammer.