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[MHolodak]

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Why don't you go crouch in the sweltering hot jungle, dodging gunshots, knowing that any moment could be your last, then actually take a human life in service of your country. Then you can come back and tell everyone it was "real easy." Your statements are more of an insult to veterans than they are to Kerry.

Could not have made a better reply myself, If I didnt take so much time to right that previous post, I would have seen this... The man who made fun of how Kerry earned his purple hearts just sickens me... Unbelivable that people have to lower themselves to get their political points across is sad...

[..[[ModBoxMaster]]..]

 

[gcskate27]

QUOTE (..[[ModBoxMaster)

]..,Jul 23 2004, 03:04 AM] if kerry is elected america will collapse.. seriously this guy is destin do ruin our country

good point...

do you ever have any reasoning? or is this your parents/psuedo-intellectual friends talking?

[bgrill27]

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kerry got 3 purple hearts.. WOOOOPY DOOO kerry sux

I would never be condescending to any man who went to war. The first person who's actually served in combat feel free, though.  I personally do not like Kerry, but do not try to discount his service while in Vietnam.

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How about how we were lied to about WMDs into going into a war with the scale of death reaching nearly 900

A lie is a known false truth. The 9/11 commision faulted the CIA for providing bad intel to the governemnt.

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"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001 "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Congress was given the same information and made the same assumptions. I would have too. The president did not give this intellegence to Congress, but the CIA did. We overestimated Sadam's weapons, but some have been found.

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Polish troops in Iraq recently have discovered "16 or 17" warheads containing sarin or mustard gas, according to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

link

A terrible torturing tyrant is out of power. Saddam goes down in the line of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. I think it is better for the Middle East that Saddam is out of power. Remember Libya? They surrendered their nuclear program directly because of the Invasion of Iraq. The UN issued warning after warning, but never acted. The UN stands for useless negociator, in my opinion. What did they do in Bosnia, when Ethnic Albanians were suffering genocide? Nothing. Waiting for UN approval would have been futile.

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He goes to Iraq saying that we were in huge danger of an attack by Saddam on US soil

From Bush's State of the Union 2003:

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Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option.

He says that Iraq is not an imminent threat.

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He stopped going after Bin Laden who killed 3,000 civilians

Simply not true. There are still many, many forces in Afghanistan.


MHolodak, My condolences to you for the death of your cousin. I could not even imagine the loss you are feeling. I did not mean for any of the arguments above to be personal.

[nVRuckus]

QUOTE (bluedeath @ Jul 1 2004, 05:50 PM)

We could feed the British and Canadians to the war machine and then use the French as human shields.

lol guy our salvation army is bigger than the canadian army   and why fight the british? who will we get to back us no matter what we do.  

[Dark_Link2135]

QUOTE (MHolodak @ Jul 23 2004, 08:41 AM)

Could not have made a better reply myself, If I didnt take so much time to right that previous post, I would have seen this... The man who made fun of how Kerry earned his purple hearts just sickens me... Unbelivable that people have to lower themselves to get their political points across is sad...

i dont think i was "making fun" of how kerry got the purple hearts.  im stated how he got them, and that a shrapnel scratch does not deserve a purple heart.

if you think otherwise, well, pretty much every single war veteran should come home with a purple heart.

i was not trying to insult or discredit war veterans in any way.

and i do not call kerry a vietnam war hero, or even a war veteran.  he is a traitor to the good men and women who fought beside him.  he came home, threw away his medals, and called his fellow veterans lying sadistic cheats.

okay, maybe not EXACTLY that, but for all extents and purposes, he was out there with the "you are a bunch of baby-killers" crowd.

i really have a hard time respecting a man who vicously attacked his fellow veterans.  these guys were doing their job, and put themselves in grave danger, all because they were told to.  just to stop communism from spreading to SK.

this is what i meant by my post, and one of the reasons i have extremely little respect for kerry.

for once im siding with gcskate -

"if kerry is elected america will collapse.. seriously this guy is destin do ruin our country"

if all you are going to do is post a bunch of conservative propaganda with no backbone, dont bother to post at all.  you are just ticking everyone off, on both political sides.  we can all obviously see you dont know why you believe what you do, other then because its been crammed into your head by your parents/relatives/church, etc.  dont believe everything you hear.

[bx2a5z]

QUOTE (Dark_Link2135 @ Jul 24 2004, 01:52 AM)

what are you talking about.  you are completely incoherent.  what are you talking about "negative"

  For the thinking-impaired:  Positive = weapons are there.  Negative = they aren't.  You can't prove there's no weapons just like you can't prove there's no  Jesus.  You can't prove non-existance.  You can be 99.99999999% sure, but that's not proof.

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a bronze star for pulling a guy out of the water? come on, thats INSTINCT, not bravery.

The result is the same - he saved someone's life.  What on earth does it matter what was going through his head at the time?  Further, saving someone else's life is NOT instinct; saving your own is.

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you are missing the point here. he got a SILVER STAR for this. a silver star! just for shooting a guy in the back. a silver star is supposed to be a really high honor, kerry got it just for shooting a sniper in the back.

He kept him from killing more U.S. soldiers.  Sounds medal-worthy to me.  What do you think someone should have to do to get a medal?  Gun down 50 soldiers at once while ducking and dodging and jumping, and all without getting hit?  Sorry, but that only happens in the movies.

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these guys were doing their job, and put themselves in grave danger

So did Kerry - only he thought his fellow soldiers went too far and expressed his opinion.  How does that make him a "traitor?"  Would you rather nobody ever questioned the military's actions?  If that was the way things had gone down, who knows, maybe now our military would be roaming rape/death squads, like military forces in some other countries.

Kerry stood up and said what he felt to be right.  That takes balls, and is hardly something to be ashamed of.

Now then, is your assertion that the military DIDN'T do anything fucked up in Vietnam?  If so, then why has the U.S. government felt the need to officially apologize for the My Lai massacre?

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im sorry, but you make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Don't blame me for your shitty reading comprehension.

[Dark_Link2135]

QUOTE (bx2a5z @ Jul 24 2004, 02:38 AM)

Now then, is your assertion that the military DIDN'T do anything fucked up in Vietnam?  If so, then why has the U.S. government felt the need to officially apologize for the My Lai massacre? Don't blame me for your shitty reading comprehension.

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For the thinking-impaired:  Positive = weapons are there.  Negative = they aren't.  You can't prove there's no weapons just like you can't prove there's no  Jesus.  You can't prove non-existance.  You can be 99.99999999% sure, but that's not proof.

ok.  so you can prove they WERE there?  lets hear it then.

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The result is the same - he saved someone's life. What on earth does it matter what was going through his head at the time? Further, saving someone else's life is NOT instinct; saving your own is. He kept him from killing more U.S. soldiers. Sounds medal-worthy to me. What do you think someone should have to do to get a medal? Gun down 50 soldiers at once while ducking and dodging and jumping, and all without getting hit? Sorry, but that only happens in the movies.

yes and all that was really medal worthy.  i suppose its all opinion, and mine is, none of that really deserves a silver or bronze star.  those are supposed to designate heroism.  i hardly call either of his actions heroic.  and where did you get the idea he saved someones life?  oh yes, because every single time wihtout exceptrion that someone falls in the river, it means they are definitely going to drown and die.  i forgot about that.     and you do have the gift of exaggeration, i applaud you.

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So did Kerry - only he thought his fellow soldiers went too far and expressed his opinion.  How does that make him a "traitor?"  Would you rather nobody ever questioned the military's actions?  If that was the way things had gone down, who knows, maybe now our military would be roaming rape/death squads, like military forces in some other countries.

"thought" is the key word there.  if you can somehow prove that every vietnam veteran that was with kerry was guilty of horrible war crimes then please do so.  i think a soldier has every right to try to preserve his life in combat.  of course, if you think that the vietnam veteran's lives were worthless, ok.

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would be roaming rape/death squads, like military forces in some other countries

well we all know the actions of a few soldiers represents the country as a whole.  

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Kerry stood up and said what he felt to be right.  That takes balls, and is hardly something to be ashamed of.

of course kerry wouldnt feel ashamed of this.  he thinks every vietnam veteran was a satanic woman-raping baby-killing barbarian.  okay, thats an exageration, but you see what i mean here.

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Now then, is your assertion that the military DIDN'T do anything fucked up in Vietnam?  If so, then why has the U.S. government felt the need to officially apologize for the My Lai massacre?

ah yes, i can clearly see in my post where i said the military never did anything wrong in vietnam.

Don't blame me for your shitty reading comprehension.

[bx2a5z]

QUOTE (Dark_Link2135 @ Jul 24 2004, 03:35 AM)

ok.  so you can prove they WERE there?  lets hear it then.

Um, huh?  What are you talking about?

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yes and all that was really medal worthy.  i suppose its all opinion, and mine is, none of that really deserves a silver or bronze star.  those are supposed to designate heroism.  i hardly call either of his actions heroic.

Well, then isn't your beef with the military, not Kerry?  He didn't award those medals to himself.

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"thought" is the key word there.  if you can somehow prove that every vietnam veteran that was with kerry was guilty of horrible war crimes then please do so.

Say what?  Since when did Kerry say that every soldier that served in 'Nam was a war criminal?

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i think a soldier has every right to try to preserve his life in combat.

Of course.  But that doesn't involve killing women and children.   You seem to really have trouble understanding the difference between "war" and "war crimes."

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of course, if you think that the vietnam veteran's lives were worthless, ok.

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well we all know the actions of a few soldiers represents the country as a whole.

I didn't say that, and Kerry didn't say that.  Like most of your post, I'm not quite sure where the hell you came up with that one.

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of course kerry wouldnt feel ashamed of this.  he thinks every vietnam veteran was a satanic woman-raping baby-killing barbarian.  okay, thats an exageration, but you see what i mean here.

No, actually I don't.  I see you have a very overactive imagination, and that you love to put words into Kerry's mouth, but little else.

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ah yes, i can clearly see in my post where i said the military never did anything wrong in vietnam.

You sure act like it.  If they didn't do anything wrong in Vietnam, Kerry is a liar.  If they did, he's the equivalent of a whistleblower.  What the hell is your problem with that, and how does it make him a traitor?

[nfs911]

jibjab.com check out the movie

[MHolodak]

Thjs video js better

[pegasys]

I don't really like Kerry as a candidate but the fact remains that Bush lied to us, it has been documented that he was always looking for a reason 2 attack Iraq. Before 9/11 the administration said that saddam had no WMD's but right after 9/11 they apparently popped out of nowhere. Now Bush tries 2 make up 4 going 2 war needlessly and loosing over 900 American lives by saying that "he had the knowledge 2 create WMD's(so does almost every country) and he hates America(so do most countries)". So now we go 2 war because people have information and thoughts. I think that that is a very big problem. An he says that the economy is the best it has been in recent history that means that after he became president the economy wend down by for arguments sake lets say 50% then it goes up by 5%. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BRAG ABOUT. In conclusion Kerry is not the best candidate there is, but he is better than Bush and we need to get Bush out of the white house. I am not just some democrat; I am a Republican who realizes that Bush cannot be allowed to be elected again.
Edited 4 spelling.

[melon]

[Mage]

[Dark_Link2135]

^^^^^^^^
i can prove i exist.  otherwise, how would i be typing this?