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Author Topic: 360 Hd Revisited  (Read 917 times)

m_hael

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2005, 10:04:00 PM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 7 2005, 06:53 PM)
MSs OWN stats say that less than 30% of xbox users ever used the HD. Thats pretty damned compelling info.
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Foe-hammer

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2005, 02:38:00 AM »

QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Oct 8 2005, 05:31 AM)
Actually, M_Hael is trying to show you that games don't require a harddrive IF THEY AREN'T DESIGNED TO USE ONE.
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gamerguy999

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2005, 09:03:00 AM »

QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Oct 7 2005, 09:31 PM)
70-80% of Xbox 360 owners will have a hdd...
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gamerguy999

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2005, 01:56:00 PM »

Have a link for that DuggyUk?

As far as I know, if you have the hard drive, you will not need a memory card.
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m_hael

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2005, 03:15:00 PM »

The anounced levels of Core vs Premium package are... 15% core, 85% premium... with core eventually being filtered out entirely as the console itself comes down in price.

with this reduction in mind ... after a few years... you can pretty much say almost everyone will HAVE the HDD by way of forced premium purchase or upgrade either voluntarily or because they wanted to play game X that REQUIRED the HDD; the percentage without HDD WILL go down over time and eventually hit <1%... math is a great tool aint it.

the main reason MS is doing things this way is to allow a cheaper option in the short term thus getting more units in more households before PS3 arrives.

Pretty good strategy if you ask me.
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Foe-hammer

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2005, 03:50:00 PM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 8 2005, 11:26 PM)
The anounced levels of Core vs Premium package are... 15% core, 85% premium... with core eventually being filtered out entirely as the console itself comes down in price.
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m_hael

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2005, 10:59:00 PM »

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Oct 8 2005, 04:01 PM)
I agree that is good strategy, if that is indeed MS's strategy.
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Foe-hammer

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2005, 12:11:00 AM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 9 2005, 07:10 AM)
its simply a logical conclusion.
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m_hael

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2005, 09:09:00 AM »

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Oct 9 2005, 12:22 AM)
I hope you're correct.
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Devedander

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2005, 12:34:00 AM »

QUOTE(Devedander @ Oct 7 2005, 08:17 PM)
I love it when people tell me what I don't know about... and proceed to get it all wrong...
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Devedander

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2005, 12:34:00 AM »

QUOTE(mikeandbandit @ Oct 9 2005, 07:41 PM)
So you have an understanding of how 3d engine work, yet you are unfamilar with the technique, yet you go on to say it can simple be set by changing the DRAW DISTANCE?!?!?!?!?  LOD adjustment renders distant objects in FAR fewer polygons and FAR less detail then its true rendered form. This is NOT simply changing the value of the draw distances!!! Thus implementing this in realtime into a game engine where it was NOT implemented before and STILL make the launch window is a challenge though not impossible. I simply got a term wrong (as I didnt listen closely when a dev explained this to me), you got the whole concept off. The reality is you saw a mistake pointed out by others, jumped on it and then pretended to know it the whole time. Nice show there.
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Devedander

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2005, 12:57:00 AM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 9 2005, 05:20 PM)
we will make games that pander to the larger section of gamers desires.... thats how it has always been.
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Devedander

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2005, 12:58:00 AM »

QUOTE(m_hael @ Oct 9 2005, 05:20 PM)
we will make games that pander to the larger section of gamers desires.... thats how it has always been.
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m_hael

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2005, 09:50:00 AM »

yes, the main aim is to make money. If that Alienates 10% of the supposed user base while introducing a further 20% of new attractee's.. then that option WILL be considered.

regarding LOD... its employed in such a variety of systems that I really don't want to go into all the specifics.. but I can tell you one thing... every time I've written such a system... I ALWAYS make the switch invisible to the user... polygon wise this would involve


A        - max LOD polys, full shading, max textures
A->B  - gradually (with distance) reduce shading & textures
B        - medium LOD, simple shading, simple textures
B->C  - gradually reduce poly count (requires complex algo)
C        - take the last B->C render store it.. use imposter rendering.. no more 3D.

however... this DOES NOT reduce loading times unless the system IS designed around it heavily ie ... when its in the distance and just appearing on screen... load C... load B asychronously such that as you get closer you CAN do C->B... load A... etc etc... you get the picture.

THIS is a VERY LARGE CHANGE.

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KAGE360

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360 Hd Revisited
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2005, 10:55:00 AM »

QUOTE
The anounced levels of Core vs Premium package are... 15% core, 85% premium... with core eventually being filtered out entirely as the console itself comes down in price.

with this reduction in mind ... after a few years... you can pretty much say almost everyone will HAVE the HDD by way of forced premium purchase or upgrade either voluntarily or because they wanted to play game X that REQUIRED the HDD; the percentage without HDD WILL go down over time and eventually hit <1%... math is a great tool aint it.

the main reason MS is doing things this way is to allow a cheaper option in the short term thus getting more units in more households before PS3 arrives.

Pretty good strategy if you ask me.


i have thought this from the beginning.  think about it, MS has already said that they will release bigger versions of the HD in the future.  if they are selling the 20gb HD for $100 how much more do you think they can charge people for a 40gb??  they know people are bitching about the current HD being $100, do you think they would be niave enough to release a 40gb for $150 or $200?  i dont think so they are not sony.  all this brings me to believe as technology gets cheaper, they will make the move to all 360s being made are premium and release the bigger HD (whatever size it might be) for $100.   M_hael and others are right that the main reason they chose to include a cheaper version is just to get more consoles into households before the ps3 hits.  to compare this situation to the ps2 HD blunder is just stupid, it came out far into the consoles life cycle with little support and a bad implementation.  its true that add-ons rarely succeed but the HD for the 360 isnt an add-on, it will be in 85% of the consoles.  

im not going to say that people who get the core version shouldnt bitch about load times or lack of some features and thats what you get for getting the stripped down version.  i WILL say however that the core version was thought of for those people who dont know any better, dont care about load times, dont care about high res, who are used to buying memory cards for their consoles, and who dont care much for onlline.  they are for the casual gamers who just throw in a game and go at it a few hours a week.  you, Davedander, fail to understand that because a number of reasons, one being that you arent a casual gamer.  the people who care about online, load times, downloads, high def, and other features will get the premium version because they know better and make gaming more of their life style then the others that MS is aiming for with the cores.  with all that in mind some people have the right to say that if you knew better then dont bitch about it if you chose to get the core version.

ok now that my rant is done, after reading pages and pages and rants and complaining about this issue to no end why havent i EVER read one of you whining SOBs ever bring up how the ps3 not having ANY HD will hold that system back?!?!  uhh.gif  

what started this post with itagaki saying what he did was stupid as all of his concern was geared towards how people who dont have a HD will not be able to have these features.  why in the same line didnt you mention of how he also said in many interviews how he would have liked to have the HD standard but he LOVES how they have chosen to put 512mb of ram in the system?  he loves the damn system and if you take the word of him so much (as do i) then that is the only thing that should matter to you.  

ok im done, carry on with the bickering if you feel so inclined to do so.
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