Topic: Anyone Know How Pi Dumps Games? (Read 395 times)

regulater7 · « **on:** December 15, 2005, 02:34:00 AM »

Well, as far as I know PI is the only one with the correct software / hardware to do this? I was just curious how they did it? Modded firmware of a dvd drive? Tapped the SATA cable on xbox360? Have special software? I just think its amazing that they did this already when, you cant even rip an XBOX 1 game, without ftping in to it, etc... as far as I know. Im not trying to ask to get the software / hardware, just curious on how they did it?

bowser22 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2005, 05:47:00 AM »

I was wondering how they did it too

ViNCe_V · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2005, 06:16:00 AM »

you should really search and read before posting a topic that has already been discussed multiple times ....

scotty2hotty1124 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2005, 07:55:00 AM »

well we all know that they used some type of firmware for the specific dvd rom....and a certain program, but my question is why hasnt anyone taken this knowledge to use and try and do it themselves? the reason i havent is because i dont have a clue where to start....but im sure there are some other coders around here that could try and help. and it seems like so many mods and senior members around here already knew about it, so why didnt you guys tell us before? what was the purpose of keeping it a secret when it was just txbox1? i just dont understand i guess...but why dont WE try and do the same thing PI is doing?

deadparrot · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2005, 09:19:00 AM »

They modified a tool which was never properly released, so it's only a few people who have ever used it. I too would like to know more about this.

jameswalter · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2005, 10:47:00 AM »

It sounds like a DVD-ROM was flashed with a modified debug firmware that starts looking for data at sector offset 0x1FB20. This would skip the normal END OF DISC portion of the 360's disc.

Phantaxus · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2005, 12:28:00 PM »

BBC News Story

http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/4530702.stm

Quote

The crackers have not managed to get the data off game disks, instead they have dug out the version of the game that the Xbox 360 creates when gamers start playing.

Endquote

TheSpecialist · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2005, 01:15:00 PM »

QUOTE(Phantaxus @ Dec 15 2005, 08:35 PM)

BBC News Story

http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/4530702.stm

Quote

The crackers have not managed to get the data off game disks, instead they have dug out the version of the game that the Xbox 360 creates when gamers start playing.

Endquote

'version of the game that the xbox creates when gamers start playing' ? WTF is that ? Hehe. No, I'm sure they extracted the iso's like i just wrote above. These BBC dudes obviously don't know what they're talking about.

heinrich · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »

http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=469644

Monoxboogie · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2005, 11:38:00 PM »

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 16 2005, 06:54 AM)

First of all I want to say Hi to all of you.

Now I think what PI did is to use the xbox 360 as the reader and made an ISO out of it, same goes to Gamecube(.GCM) anyway just a thought

I think you're wrong. If by "think", I mean "know", and by "wrong", I mean "blatantly ignorant, and guessing based on an absolute lack of research or knowledge."

Search, and read, and you might actually learn something. Or keep on posting stupid questions. Whatever.

Monoxboogie · « **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2005, 10:22:00 AM »

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 16 2005, 04:54 PM)

Well Gamecube was the most secured of all the 3 consoles and thats a fact, I'm assuming that maybe this team have managed to make the same method work on the 360. There's just many hackers interested in cracking the 360. So you can expect a lot more talented hackers trying to crack this thing. I know how Xbox 1 games gets copied and I'm aware that you can't make an iso of it right away from the box but what you get is files instead. But on the 360 I think this team have managed to do it. Or maybe what they did is the same thing as the first xbox making an ISO using FTP with files then converted it to an ISO(.360) but I doubt it. Also if you look inside the NFO they gave a hint about the "Gamecube". You can "think" what you like, but it's really just all speculation. Whether its a new method or the same method as the first Xbox, No one really knows except PI.

Gamecube was most secure because they used a never before seen format that spins backwards, and was incredibly high density for its size. EVEN if we could have made our drives spin backwards, we couldn't have gotten the lasers to read the data on it (I don't believe), due to the way the data was written.

I believe Dreamcast and their GD-ROM was the same...I don't believe games could be ripped until they got the Dreamcast under their control with a boot disc. DC's flaw was that even though it used GD-ROM, it *could* execute files off of a CD-ROM.

Anyway, you know how Xbox 1 games are copied *now*. There was a time before dvd2xbox. In this time, through voodoo which you'll quite obviously fail to understand, a standard PC-DVD-ROM drive was put into such a mode that ATAPI commands could be sent to it to cause it to seek passed what it believed was the end of the DVD inserted. Then, it was as simple as using some sort of utility to do a raw dump of the DVD, with a program such as dd, and boom....Xbox ISO. Team Xcuter hinted that the Xbox 360 ripper looks like the tool used for ProjectX a few years ago. It does the same thing as the original Xbox 1 tool...the one that existed before dvd2xbox. Well, almost the same thing. They had to change an offset. This is the reason that all the Xbox 360 ISO's are all the same size. The nature of the raw dumping utility dumps "empty" areas of the DVD just as readily as it dumps "data" portions. This also explains why, once compressed, they are different sizes. Because each ISO has a different amount of data, they have a different amount of "empty space." The nature of the empty space is such that it would more than likely be a long string of 0's. Long strings of similar data compress rather well (if you don't believe it, open notepad, copy and paste a few million "A's", and save it. Check the file size. Compress it. Check the file size. Wow.).

If you have *factual data* to point to a method other than the one I just outlined, please feel free to post. However, if you have more speculation based on no real knowledge, and your obviously weak understanding of how computers/consoles work, please refrain from posting it. Or post it. And I can continue to make posts about how wrong you are.

crosseye · « **Reply #11 on:** December 16, 2005, 12:16:00 PM »

your method may seem to you much more simple, but that's beside the point for the love of god. The way it is done neither an xbox for original games nor a 360 for the new games is needed so please, please, just deal with it. If you really enjoy trying "your method", give it a whirl, let us know how it turns out. I am not trying to discourage people from tinkering. I AM telling people to QUIT with the nonsense about which way MAY seem simpler, or how they've been told it works is not correct. It is done a way that many people had no idea about and I have tried to explain it too many times and still you people go on and on.

The point is NOT which way "seems" like it might work best. Neither is it that another way could "possibly" work. The point is simply, it is done a certain way so fookin deal with it jebus.

EDIT: think and know are 2 hugely different things. I think HD-DVD could beat blueray. I know they both use a laser to read the data.

InterestedHacker · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2005, 12:58:00 PM »

QUOTE(Enox @ Dec 16 2005, 09:34 PM)

That's what I was trying to say, there is a certain way to dump 360 games, but do we know how? the answer to that is no, that's why I was just merely speculating. I never said my way of method is right, but telling me I'm wrong when someone really has no idea of how PI really dump their 360 ISOs is full of crap.

He's not talking crap! The 360 iso are produced by sending special ATAPI commands to the standard PC DVD drive, that allow the drive to read past where your DVD drive thinks the end of the disc is. The second stage is to dump the whole disc, byte for byte, which IS why the images are all indentical in size. The reasons the dump tools and details on the ATAPI commands have never been leaked is three fold. Firstly, they didn't want people knowing how they did it (for whatever reason? control of releases, protection from MS modifying their protection, who knows?), the second reason is the fact the XBOX got completely open up and there was no reason for it, and finally there is no easy way they could just package the process up into a nice friendly noob (remove one of the o's if applicable) compatible exe that would just rip ISO on anyones PC. There are a few issues, namely the ATAPI commands themselves that make this rip only function on some (I have been told 1 drive, by someone close to the source) drives. There was speculation, and suggestion from some senior people on here (who know wtf they are talking about) that you have to modify your firmware, that may or may not be the case, and may be another reason why there is no noob exe.

Does that clear it up?

EDIT: Oh, and considering the XBOX 360 is signed, and no one can get past hypervisor yet, and the fact a normal PC can't support the SATA XBOX drive, and there's no FTP software etc. etc. How do you think they would use the 360 drive?

Enox · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2005, 01:22:00 PM »

QUOTE(InterestedHacker @ Dec 16 2005, 12:05 PM)

He's not talking crap! The 360 iso are produced by sending special ATAPI commands to the standard PC DVD drive, that allow the drive to read past where your DVD drive thinks the end of the disc is. The second stage is to dump the whole disc, byte for byte, which IS why the images are all indentical in size. The reasons the dump tools and details on the ATAPI commands have never been leaked is three fold. Firstly, they didn't want people knowing how they did it (for whatever reason? control of releases, protection from MS modifying their protection, who knows?), the second reason is the fact the XBOX got completely open up and there was no reason for it, and finally there is no easy way they could just package the process up into a nice friendly noob (remove one of the o's if applicable) compatible exe that would just rip ISO on anyones PC. There are a few issues, namely the ATAPI commands themselves that make this rip only function on some (I have been told 1 drive, by someone close to the source) drives. There was speculation, and suggestion from some senior people on here (who know wtf they are talking about) that you have to modify your firmware, that may or may not be the case, and may be another reason why there is no noob exe.

Does that clear it up?

EDIT: Oh, and considering the XBOX 360 is signed, and no one can get past hypervisor yet, and the fact a normal PC can't support the SATA XBOX drive, and there's no FTP software etc. etc. How do you think they would use the 360 drive?

I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention that you meant a "360 iso". Just wondering where you got the proof that they've used the PC DVD Drive to make an ISO? or are you just speculating?

tachy0n · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2005, 01:57:00 PM »

It's the only way it could have been done! Use a bit of deductive logic: the xbox drive does not work in a PC (yet?) and there is no way of FTPing it across (yet?), not to mention hypervisor. There's even a bit in the .nfo's of their releases telling you the file system is the same with a different offset. How much proof do you want?!?

Author Topic: Anyone Know How Pi Dumps Games? (Read 395 times)