Topic: Bad, Bad Vga Cable (Read 5386 times)

Foe-hammer · « **Reply #75 on:** January 17, 2006, 03:04:00 AM »

QUOTE(Neted @ Jan 16 2006, 07:05 PM)

I have the same washed out colors like you folks, with my crappy MS VGA cable I bought today.
I tested the cable with 2 TFT PC Monitors and 1 CRT (great Mitsubishi 21'' with SoG switch on 5-BNC inputs - RGB+HV or RGB-only with SoG).
I didn't have any luck with the VGA cable in any of the above monitors.

Foe-hammer I read your thoughts on xbox forums about SoG and the HV jumping to the Green signal. Have you tried this? But again, I don't think that's a SoG/not-SoG problem. As you said, the VGA cable has HV wiring and must work on every VGA monitor. The color space explanation (video-level, pc-level) fits much better on our crappy case, don't you think?

All I expect is a patch as soon as possible, the sharpness and clearance on a PC monitor are stunning but the washing-out bug ruins that all. What about the petition that was mentioned before?

Since my Mitsubishi has a SoG switch, I could test delivering signal through HD AV Cable (Component) which passes sync over Green (right?) and see the results. If I get the same bad washed-out picture, then it has nothing to do with SoG and we can safely conclude that Xbox 360 produces 16-235 levels in all cases and require a damn patch!

But, damn, I don't have right now RCA-to-BNC adaptors!!!

I've tried jumping the H&V sync wires to the green wire, but it did not work because i simply cannot just lay the H&V sync wires on the green wire, i have to first combine the H&V sync signal in a much more complicated way, then add it to the green.

Component does not even carry H&V sync in any form, whether it is SoG, composite sync, or seperate H&V sync.

I've desoldered the H&V sync wires from the 360 avip plug to see if the 360 also supported SoG. But unfortunetely the 360 does not; only seperate H&V sync.

Foe-hammer · « **Reply #76 on:** January 17, 2006, 04:57:00 PM »

Excellent email. I just hope MS gives a rats balls to do something about it.

Let us know what you find out.

Neted · « **Reply #77 on:** January 17, 2006, 06:28:00 PM »

Let's see what'll happen this time...

-------------------
It seems you did not understand the problem I'm describing.

I'm saying I have a problem with my MS VGA Cable and you instruct me how to
configure my... Component HD Cable. You shall know that there are no 480p, 720p,
1080i settings over VGA Cable. These settings shows up only if the Component HD
Cable is attached on the Xbox360.
I don't want to use this cable. I want to use the MS VGA HD AV Cable with my PC-monitor.

As I said, I have all the settings configured correctly and the problem is caused probably
by a bug of the system. In case you want to instruct me again how to configure my resolution
this time, ok, feel free.
But I can assure you that the problem will still exist.

I really appreciate your willness to help me but I feel you can't do much but to send my email
to the top executives of technical support and inform me if there will be a patch or, AT LEAST, if
this is a known or not problem and what can I expect from your support.

Thank you,
XXXXX XXXXXXX
Greece
1/18/2006
-------------------

Foe-hammer · « **Reply #78 on:** January 17, 2006, 08:07:00 PM »

Xbox customer support is pretty much worthless. Should be called xbox mentally challanged support, because the only people it would possible help are those who have a hard time figuring out where to put in the dvd.

redwolf · « **Reply #79 on:** January 18, 2006, 05:43:00 AM »

QUOTE(jizmo @ Jan 18 2006, 11:10 AM)

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to getting this fixed myself. Has anyone tried those transcoders, like the praised VD-Z3 to convert x360's component to VGA? Or, more importantly, does VD-Z3 output PC levels? I should think so, because it's designed for monitor use in the first place.

VD-Z3 costs about $70, and selling the VGA cable should cover some of the damage.

yeah i tried the vdigi transcoder (conjunction to Xbox360 component cable) and the image brightness are fine/normal. but VD-Z3 ONLY gives out 640x480, 1280x720 and 1900x1080, and with my LCD i was only able to view the 480p as my LCD doesn't support them resolutions.

but nevertheless, 480p with Xbox 360 VGA is washed out, compared to 480p via the VDigi box.

redwolf · « **Reply #80 on:** January 18, 2006, 07:45:00 AM »

QUOTE(jizmo @ Jan 18 2006, 03:51 PM)

Ok, so that's it, I'm placing my order for VDigi as it seems to be the easiest way to settle this without having to buy a new TV.

I don't feel like we're getting through to MS on this. Even if we get them to admit there is a problem, they will not probably fix it as they feel it's the problem with LCDs instead.

On a positive note my retailer just called and told me I can have my game changed.

make sure your monitor supports them resolutions. cos 480p is a bit pixilated

twistedsymphony · « **Reply #81 on:** January 18, 2006, 07:52:00 AM »

QUOTE(Foe-hammer @ Jan 17 2006, 05:11 AM)

I've tried jumping the H&V sync wires to the green wire, but it did not work because i simply cannot just lay the H&V sync wires on the green wire, i have to first combine the H&V sync signal in a much more complicated way, then add it to the green.

Component does not even carry H&V sync in any form, whether it is SoG, composite sync, or seperate H&V sync.

I've desoldered the H&V sync wires from the 360 avip plug to see if the 360 also supported SoG. But unfortunetely the 360 does not; only seperate H&V sync.

Component carries a C-Sync on the Green wire...

H&V syncs need a combined circuit, but I'm fairly certain that once it's a C-Sync it can simply be added to to the green line (be it VGA, or Component).

RGB Scart has a C-sync line (it's the same pin as composite in the SCART pinout) Typically it's VERY weak but you may be able to use that if it's active when using the VGA jumper settings.

As for the washed out picture, has anyone tried making a cable with 22uF caps and 10k resistors to help clean it up?

like this:
[output from Xbox]->[22uF cap]->[10k resistor]->[monitor input]

you can also help adjust the signal by adding a trim pot between the signal and ground on the monitor side of the above circuit.

Anyone looking to do some video work ePanorama has a great resource: http://www.epanorama...eocircuits.html

twistedsymphony · « **Reply #82 on:** January 18, 2006, 02:55:00 PM »

how are you measuring the color space?

Foe-hammer · « **Reply #83 on:** January 18, 2006, 09:29:00 PM »

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jan 18 2006, 07:59 AM)

Component carries a C-Sync on the Green wire...

H&V syncs need a combined circuit, but I'm fairly certain that once it's a C-Sync it can simply be added to to the green line (be it VGA, or Component).

RGB Scart has a C-sync line (it's the same pin as composite in the SCART pinout) Typically it's VERY weak but you may be able to use that if it's active when using the VGA jumper settings.

You're correct, component can carry a Composite sync on the green wire....which in itself is sync on green.

What i was referring to was that the 360 component cables does not carry any form of H or V sync. If it did (have c-sync on the green wire, ala. SoG), one could hook up a simple vga to 3 rca cable to the 360 component cable, and it would work via sync on green. Granted, whout pin 15, you would not have the different res option, all you would have was the component res (480p, 720p and 1080i). This is how i was able to play the original xbox on my pc monitor, with the vga bios. The xbox vga bios output SoG, where as the 360 does not.

twistedsymphony · « **Reply #84 on:** January 19, 2006, 05:16:00 AM »

QUOTE(Neted @ Jan 18 2006, 06:09 PM)

Having 0-255 levels (8bit) of brigthness for every color (red, green, blue), 255x255x255 (or 8bit x 8bit x 8bit = 24bit truecolor) we have 16.7million.

If we start from 16 to 235, we have 219levels = 219x219x219 = 10.5million colors starting from dark grey to almost white.

If we can't get marginal values of brightness (up to 255), we can't have vibrant colors.

I think you misunderstood my question. I get how to calculate it, but how did you measure it? Meaning how do you know we're starting with 16 to 235?

anttimonty · « **Reply #85 on:** January 20, 2006, 08:17:00 AM »

QUOTE(jizmo @ Dec 18 2005, 12:07 PM)

Well, I've heard some rumours about x360 VGA cable delivering bad image, but I was still flabbergasted when I got mine yesterday. Colors aren't anything like they are with the original component-cable, everything near-white is burnt to white and image is overally really washed out. It's sharper alright, but all the color / brightness issues make it look so lousy that it's useless to me.

Here's how it looks like

And the damn thing cost me $45. Damn I'm pissed off.

Has anyone tested any component to VGA transcoders, like VD-Z3, to test out if transcoded component would look better than the crappy VGA?

I just bought M$ VGA HD-AV cable and I have the exsact same problem the colors are washed out. No matter what I do to brightness or contrast or even change the color temp. The colors simply looks like shit

When I hook my computer to my Philips 200W6CS with vga cable the picture looks (almost like with DVI). Not to mention, I tried every resolution available on X360 and Halo 1 always said that the resolution is not supported by this game! Further more it isn't possible to use 1080i with this P O S cable.

anttimonty · « **Reply #86 on:** January 29, 2006, 03:06:00 PM »

This thread shouldn't be dead. Sorry for the spam just needed to get this topic back where it belongs. People should be advised not to buy a VGA cable before this problem is solved.

I have also issued this problem to M$ with no repond from them

Everyone who has this problem should also issue it to M$ so that it will get noticed.

Email X360 HW support

(CC) · « **Reply #87 on:** January 29, 2006, 04:08:00 PM »

Im using Dragon 360 VGA cables and a new Samsung SyncMaster913v that has a pretty low contrast ratio (so ive been told) at 800:1, but the picture doesnt look anywhere near as bad as the examples.

Its slightly lighter than my 21" CRT TV (480p) using the component cables, but that was a bit too dark IMO, id rather play it on my LCD.

Am I just plain wrong (untrained eye), or are some images coming out OK?

Mick Garvey · « **Reply #88 on:** January 29, 2006, 07:37:00 PM »

I sent them an email, everyone else should do the same!

Foe-hammer · « **Reply #89 on:** January 29, 2006, 11:28:00 PM »

Email sent.

Author Topic: Bad, Bad Vga Cable (Read 5386 times)