Topic: Microsoft Denies Forza 2 Causing 'Major' 360 Issues (Read 2495 times)

HaredX · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2007, 09:45:00 PM »

I love how no matter what the problem is Microsoft always has the same excuse, "by the looks of all the people complaining it seems like its a large problem but in reality it's only affecting a tiny percentage of our customers"

That's what they say about every single problem that comes up with the 360

0794 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2007, 09:46:00 PM »

i am not taking a side with either the game or the console being the problem.

but when a thread is removed and "protected" for the moderators only because those in charge did not like the problems that the thread revealed - that is exactly similar to sweeping the problem under a rug. you can just as easily close a thread from further responses - but this thread was removed. dirty, very dirty...

FCTE · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2007, 09:31:00 PM »

QUOTE(willyfonsworth @ Jul 3 2007, 10:45 PM)

This may actually make sense because the game only freezes during load screens. Oh well nothing much that can be done really. Possibly hope that my box will die before the warranty is up

Maybe the next one will be a good refurb unit

Yeah the load screens will feeze and the music will get stuck, it will either bounce back and start the race most of the time, or the disk will stall and you will either get a black screen or disk clean error. I think if anything Forza 2 may be a DVD drive killer.

I'm in the same boat, If it's going to die I want it within warranty. It's a catch 22, I know I can modify it to run really cool and void my warranty, or keep my warranty and let it fry and be fixed for free. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I really don't want a refurb some 12 year old kicked the crap out of, I keep my box in pristine condition.

QUOTE(794 @ Jul 3 2007, 10:46 PM)

but when a thread is removed and "protected" for the moderators only because those in charge did not like the problems that the thread revealed - that is exactly similar to sweeping the problem under a rug. you can just as easily close a thread from further responses - but this thread was removed. dirty, very dirty...

Frequent the Xbox.com forums and you will see all kinds dissappearing Xbox problem threads.

lilgamer327 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2007, 10:15:00 PM »

haha this funny because ive had my 360 since november and i got forza and after a while my 360 started freezing and it got 3ROL problem

ThaCrip · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2007, 10:13:00 PM »

QUOTE(Pouper @ Jul 3 2007, 08:46 PM)

No problems here. I've been playing FM2 since the day it came out and my Xbox has been running great.

same here i aint had any issues with the game either.

p.s. forza 2 is by far the best simulation game ever (only other game close is original forza on xbox 1)

jaymeturner · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2007, 11:35:00 PM »

Dont know if it is related or not but the other day I went into Bigw and saw a 360 with heaps of Forza 2 posters around it, had a flashing red light and E65 on the tv, I thought to myself "good marketing guys".
went into target 1/2 hour later and their 360 was the same. maybe linked to Forza 2?

Muzzakus · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2007, 11:38:00 PM »

QUOTE(jaymeturner @ Jul 4 2007, 05:35 AM)

Dont know if it is related or not but the other day I went into Bigw and saw a 360 with heaps of Forza 2 posters around it, had a flashing red light and E65 on the tv, I thought to myself "good marketing guys".
went into target 1/2 hour later and their 360 was the same. maybe linked to Forza 2?

The only relations would be perhaps...

If Forza2 has above average disc access = HEAT
If Forza2 wallops all 3 CPU cores constantly = HEAT
If Forza2 wallops THE GPU constantly with it's the 60fps goodness = HEAT

360 design + HEAT = DOOM

Other than that, any 360 game can cause failure as any use of the 360 is a fast train to 3RLOD.

Muz

sandmanza · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2007, 12:22:00 AM »

"The game bricked my console"

No it did not, your console finally stuffed out, all the game did was put the console under enough stress to finally push it over the edge. With games coming out that push consoles more and more we will see more and more "The game bricked my console" threads. Microsoft better start making their consoles better than they are now, which wouldn't be hard at all, I mean they make them any worse and the first thing to greet you when you take out your brand new 360 would be 3RLOD.

Vrtclhykr · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2007, 12:26:00 AM »

Well. I was watching a movie on XBMC and saw the RSS thread about this. So had to take a look. I have a buddy's machine here that he brought over a couple days ago. Sammy with 5.2 flashed. He complained that he just started getting freezing. When I opened the DVD drive there it was...Forza 2 in the drive. Obviously we can't say that it is the direct cause but I found it necessary to add to this thread.
The machine is now FW Orig and freezes on any original game ....that is if it makes it to the dashboard at all without ROD.

All I can say if this turns true.....WOW!!!! WTF are these clowns up to.

VrT

sandmanza · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2007, 12:31:00 AM »

Well I am on my 2'nd console, lost my proof of purchase and there are no repair centers in South Africa so therefore I had to buy a new one.

Vrtclhykr: Firmware wouldnt have made a difference at all, how my console started out was sometimes getting the RLOD to getting it most of the time to getting it all of the time.

When my 12 month warranty comes to an end, first thing I am going to do is improve the cooling and get rid of the x-clamps.

This post has been edited by sandmanza: Jul 4 2007, 07:32 AM

cerberus414 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 04, 2007, 01:31:00 AM »

Honestly......

Like..... Can people learn how technology works.

Unless, there are special instruction in the game to shutdown the CPU FAN or make the hard drive spin backwards, then I understand, other than that, there is theoretical no other way to make the software break the console physically.... So stop whining

Maybe people just get so picky about little glitches that they automatically think the system is broken.....Just maybe.

This post has been edited by cerberus414: Jul 4 2007, 08:32 AM

d-range · « **Reply #26 on:** July 04, 2007, 02:18:00 AM »

QUOTE(cerberus414 @ Jul 4 2007, 09:31 AM)

Like..... Can people learn how technology works.

Unless, there are special instruction in the game to shutdown the CPU FAN or make the hard drive spin backwards, then I understand, other than that, there is theoretical no other way to make the software break the console physically.... So stop whining

What a load of BS. Maybe, just *maybe* the *hardware* does not have enough cooling capacity? Or the infamous CPU/GPU solder connections are not sufficiently resistant to the heat dissipation the 360 was designed with? If the game pushes the machine over some limit that should not cause any problems, but it does, then the console might have fundamental heat dissipation design flaws, or just shoddy manufacturing. It has nothing to do with 'software destroying your hardware', because it is just software causing the hardware to break the hardware itself. As for the 'special instruction in the game to shutdown the CPU fan': I think you should learn about 'how technology works' some more yourself. The fan *is* actually driven by software, just not by the game but by the kernel which monitors the heat sensor on the motherboard. So yes, if there's a software flaw in the kernel it might actually cause the fan to spin too slowly or indeed even stop. Ofcourse it is highly unlikely the kernel has such flaws, but it does show that you actually can break hardware by faulty software.

I've been playing Forza 2 a lot but gladly no problems (yet). Have to admit my machine seems to be from a better batch or something anyway, because I only had it freeze on me twice, both times in Just Cause. I suspect that might have been a software issue after all, because it is not nearly the most demanding game I played, I never played long sessions of it, and for now no other game has ever frozen on me...

I know for sure that tonight I will flash to iXtreme 1.2b. With the slower read spead I can imagine the DVD drive will generate just that little bit less heat to stay safe.

This post has been edited by d-range: Jul 4 2007, 09:25 AM

cerberus414 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 04, 2007, 02:28:00 AM »

QUOTE(d-range @ Jul 4 2007, 03:18 AM)

What a load of BS. Maybe, just *maybe* the *hardware* does not have enough cooling capacity? Or the infamous CPU/GPU solder connections are not sufficiently resistant to the heat dissipation the 360 was designed with? If the game pushes the machine over some limit that should not cause any problems, but it does, then the console might have fundamental heat dissipation design flaws, or just shoddy manufacturing. It has nothing to do with 'software destroying your hardware', because it is just software causing the hardware to break the hardware itself. As for the 'special instruction in the game to shutdown the CPU fan': I think you should learn about 'how technology works' some more yourself. The fan *is* actually driven by software, just not by the game but by the kernel which monitors the heat sensor on the motherboard. So yes, if there's a software flaw in the kernel it might actually cause the fan to spin too slowly or indeed even stop. Ofcourse it is highly unlikely the kernel has such flaws, but it does show that you actually can break hardware by faulty software.

I've been playing Forza 2 a lot but gladly no problems (yet). Have to admit my machine seems to be from a better batch or something anyway, because I only had it freeze on me twice, both times in Just Cause. I suspect that might have been a software issue after all, because it is not nearly the most demanding game I played, I never played long sessions of it, and for now no other game has ever frozen on me...

I know for sure that tonight I will flash to iXtreme 1.2b. With the slower read spead I can imagine the DVD drive will generate just that little bit less heat to stay safe.

Ever heard of CPU Temperature threshold. Pretty much hardwired into any CPU to shutdown when it reaches like 110 Celsius or whatever. The problem is that the soldering which is lead-free (plus the X-clamp flaw) melts before the CPU can reach that threshold. Maybe you can consider that as being a hardware flaw and I do agree with you that more demanding games = more cpu usage hence more heat, but games DO NOT control the cpu fans. I mean there is a direct relationship, but they don't have control over it.

BTW, the temperature sensor is not really a sensor because its a just a piece of wire through which a constant current is passed through to calculate resistance and approximate temperature. And isn't it inside the CPU not the mobo?

This post has been edited by cerberus414: Jul 4 2007, 09:35 AM

forzadude2 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 04, 2007, 02:34:00 AM »

Forza2 DEMO is the only game I have played that actually screwed up my profile.

ConteZero76 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 04, 2007, 02:35:00 AM »

QUOTE(cerberus414 @ Jul 4 2007, 08:31 AM)

Honestly......

Like..... Can people learn how technology works.

Unless, there are special instruction in the game to shutdown the CPU FAN or make the hard drive spin backwards, then I understand, other than that, there is theoretical no other way to make the software break the console physically.... So stop whining

Maybe people just get so picky about little glitches that they automatically think the system is broken.....Just maybe.

Hey, would you drive a Ferrari F40 with NOS addon without ABS ?
I can assure you that there will be no "disable brakes" switch so there's no way the NOS (or the lack of ABS) will make the car unstable from a theoretical point of view.

So stop whining (and/or screaming) when you'll go downhill at full throttle.

When something is engineered in a BAD way every little push can break the whole, Forza Motorsport 2 is a big push on the hardware and since the hardware is unable to handle the heat the whole thing could (and sometimes DOES) break.
Heck, with an air conditioner over the XBox360 this shouldn't be an issue but since we're living in a REAL world where HEAT exist, dust DO decrease airflow and people get angry when things break down... well, you know.
Microsoft and SiS (the actual board designer) screwed big time with the thermal design and they are unwilling to fix the issue, they'll leave the things as they are until, someday, 65nm will come and, when the failure rate will decrease, some half assed marketing manager will come and tell "as you can see XBox360 is rock stable".
When this will happen every "early" (two years) adopter will go to that famous site with the "you are an idiot.. ohohoh-ohohohoh" song.

This post has been edited by ConteZero76: Jul 4 2007, 09:43 AM

Author Topic: Microsoft Denies Forza 2 Causing 'Major' 360 Issues (Read 2495 times)