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[dracflamloc]

Just a note: Defragging isn't just for the performance of your drive (loading times etc),  it can

a) be helpful in games that stream data from the drive as you play as if it was streaming from the DVDROM, causing stuttering.
b) increase the lifetime of your HD because the little arms that read the data don't have to jump around the disk surface nearly as much, causing a lessened strain on the drive.

There are two of the big reasons for defragging.  I personally would like to see a defragger, and if I was still in college and had free time I may have just made one myself, but I just don't have time these days.

[Mage]

QUOTE (dracflamloc @ Aug 22 2004, 04:39 PM)

Just a note: Defragging isn't just for the performance of your drive (loading times etc),  it can a) be helpful in games that stream data from the drive as you play as if it was streaming from the DVDROM, causing stuttering. increase the lifetime of your HD because the little arms that read the data don't have to jump around the disk surface nearly as much, causing a lessened strain on the drive. There are two of the big reasons for defragging.  I personally would like to see a defragger, and if I was still in college and had free time I may have just made one myself, but I just don't have time these days.

Seeing as this thread keeps getting bumped anyways (votes that is), I guess I'll reply to your points.

1) The xbox dvd drive reads on the usable outer edge at a maximum of 6.4MB/s with an average seek time of 130ms meanwhile the hd has 12Mb/s minimum with 10ms average seek time.  Even a very fragmented drive has a major advantage still.

2) Fact of the matter is games move things to the cache partition they're using if they're going to be constantly accessed the majority of the time anyways, so head movements aren't really a major issue in that sense.  The fragmented file is going to get copied to X/Y/Z and won't be fragmented for the majority of the reads then.

A more serious issue in terms of the drive's life would be the small enclosed area the drive is at.  The heat is going to have negative effects on the hard drive far before the head has issues reading I'm sure.  Though drives sure can handle a good amount of heat.

In the end most people are likely going to get data corruption far before the mechanical parts break down.

[Chicken Scratch Boy]

[BlueCELL]

Its not a problem with Power lose causing Data Corruption, this problem could be easily fixed by writing a file which tells us which sectors were transfered where.  The main issue i see would the the amount of time it would take.  Because i know it would take more than 6+ hrs and my parents dont want my shit running when i dont use it (Power saving).

[BlueCELL]

[jimmsta]

Essentially, it would be a plus to add an HD defragger to xboxhdm... Obviously, if you really wanted to defrag the drive, you'd need to rip the drive out, but....

Seeing as linux fatx support is great, an xbe based on linux would work...
To make a Virtual Memory area for copying files, the cache partitions could be grouped into a virtual hard drive, and a file could be made that spans the three partitions. The defrag program could initialize this file as a temporary storage device.

Technically speaking, I believe a modified version of linux would be able to accomplish this without the need to rip out the drive and stick it in a pc....

[Cathesdus]

Well, instead of starting out with a full defragger, why dont we just try something a little easier with fewer risks.  Here's what I'm thinking:

Instead of having it move clusters at a time, have it move entire files.  It could move them to the virtual drive that could be made by combining XYZ and since it would be done this way each file would move fairly fast.

After moving a certain preset number of files (or a limit could be set to a total filesize of files moved) the files could be moved back one at a time, ensuring that each file is esentially defragged.

Since each file is moved individually, data corruption could be a bigger problem then with a real defragger.  I'm still trying to figure out a way to work around this.  I remeber somebody mentioned just to write a logfile but they also mentioned using the XYZ drives as one large drive.  Yea, well the problem is that as soon as th power flickers or the xbox shuts off, those drives are going to be split again (as they were only "virtually" together).  This means there is also a very good chance the xbox may decide to format these drives upon reboot.  If i remember correctly, it clears them when they reach a certain capacity and since wed want to use them to a full potential, this could be a problem when the power flickers and somebody loses 2 gigs of files (but this is why I recommend using a file limit, say 10 to 20 files per cycle)

The cons would be a filesize limit of 2 gigs.  Since we'd be moving entire files, anything bigger than 2 gigs would be TOO big, therefore it couldnt be moved.  But I start thinking about it and I don't think anybody should have 2 gig files on their HD's anyways.  Movies would be the only exception but this is why I prefer Divx.

Again, power flashes mean bad mojo but since we want to use the cache drives, there is no way around this.  Not even a logfile could save us now...

Other than that I think this would be a great start.  Post your thoughts and lets see what we can do to make this work.  Ill try to answer any questions you have about this too.

[fghjj]

Moving a few files around from partition A to partition B and back isn't going to help a fragmented drive. For every file FATX will simply start filling the first unused sector on the disc and move on to the next (most likely resulting in more fragmentation). Defragging must be done on a sector level.

Like said, you can move your stuff to a PC and back by FTP, this will result in a 100% unfragmented drive, but it only works if you move _everything_ on a partition.

The other way is with a defrag algorithm, which will require ~20% of space to be unused on a partition and a vast amount of time. It also requires a skilled programmer with experience in filesystems who certainly isn't following this thread and rather spends his/her time on writing useful stuff for things that really are needed.

The Xbox filesystem simply isn't meant to contain large amounts of data. Ppl that are concerned with fragmentation should consider having their media on a central fileserver with a proper FS and using the Xbox only as a front-end. There are excellent game managers available and XBMC fully supports samba.

Now please let this thread rest in peace in the depths of the Xbox-Scene forums.

[wassco]

Well, my 120 gb (yea i guess low compared to ur 400's) never slowed down....

always fast, and ive been deleting ftping, erasing, changing, things ALL the time, never a slowdown..

[manasol]

(Storage reasons)

Then when I just want to clean up I export my large files and place the contents of my image file to the xbox hdd.
Point is something like a Xbox Ghost would be cool. Defrags are great but I like a new pair of shoes.

[jsrlepage]

geek out one yourself with Slayers' Installer... That's what I did and it works PERFECTLY

[Mage]

Before I had my account opened people were asking for it, and yet still nothing.

Until you find a developer with the skill to do it, and feels there is enough reward for it, you're not going to find the tool.  Interesting how the xbox-linux people still don't feel it is very critical also...

[slicemaster101]

Well, I am new to the Xbox modding scene but I am an old timer in regards to computers. Anyways, an Xbox defragmenter will become essential (most people just haven’t realized it yet because they don’t have large HDD in their Xbox). When more people start installing large hard drives (160GB+) us current large drive owners with be saying their “I told you so” remarks. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, it is proven that defragmentation is necessary to maintain performance and anyone who says otherwise in regards to a PC or an Xbox just doesn’t know what they are talking about. I just installed a brand new WD 250GB hard drive and I have definitely seen a noticeable slow down in load times as I make changes (aka copy new files, delete old, move, rename, rearrange). If you ask me, we should have had this from the beginning of the mod scene, right after Team EvolutionX (pretty sure it was them anyways) gave us the ability to upgrade the hard drive. It is a given that we will need it, however, when the developers decide to get off their ass’ and begin work on one is another story (I know this is an open-source community and most the developers get nothing for their work other then kind recognition but it has been to long and nothing has been done). If Team Avalaunch is truly working on this type of functionality then more power to them (I only hope they release it as an app rather then embedded into their dashboard because I like EvolutionX better) as they have the vision and logic to see that this up taking is a necessary evil.

Slice

P.S. And to anyone who hasn’t figured it out already in regards to hardware limitations. THERE IS NONE! The Xbox has plenty of resources (processing power, memory, swap file space, etc.) to be able to defrag a hard drive; it is just a matter of the developers creating one.

[SigTom]

Instead of telling others to get off thier ass, why dont you start learning the necessary skills to code one up if its that important to you? If it takes you a year or 2 to do it, well hey, its a year or two sooner than if you do nothing. But your an old timer when it comes to computers, and since the "Xbox is basically a PC" it shouldnt take you a year or 2, should it?

Ive been running a 120GB WB HDD in my first modded Xbox for over a year now, its at about 20 months, and honestly, I cant tell a lick a difference in any loading times from any games.  The first game ripped to that HDD, Halo, is still on there, never erased, and it loads the same now as it did 20 months ago when I installed it.

I dont see the need for one myself, and it looks like most of those in scene feel the same way, as if it were that needed/wanted we'd have it.  Look at the XBMC team asking for bounties and coding beginning on DVD+Menus playback after sooo many in the community have demanded it.  Take that as an example, start a fund, elsewhere of course, not on XBox-scene.com's forums, for a Defragger if you cant take the time yourself to learn the skills to code on up yourself.

[slicemaster101]

QUOTE (SigTom @ Dec 8 2004, 04:06 AM)

Instead of telling others to get off thier ass, why dont you start learning the necessary skills to code one up if its that important to you? If it takes you a year or 2 to do it, well hey, its a year or two sooner than if you do nothing. But your an old timer when it comes to computers, and since the "Xbox is basically a PC" it shouldnt take you a year or 2, should it?

Note: I'm a hardware junky, NOT a programmer.

QUOTE (SigTom @ Dec 8 2004, 04:06 AM)

I dont see the need for one myself, and it looks like most of those in scene feel the same way, as if it were that needed/wanted we'd have it.  Look at the XBMC team asking for bounties and coding beginning on DVD+Menus playback after sooo many in the community have demanded it.

Look at the polls dude; the majority of participants demand it! Scale those results up and I’d say the majority of the scene wants it.

Slice