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[gronned]

There's a conference going on right now in Sweden summoned by the U.N.

It's been said this is a begging-conference for the USA. Bush has failed severely in Iraq and now they're trying to change course with diplomacy. I just find it laughable.

Sweden has received more iragi refugees than EU and USA all together, thank you so very fucking much USA.
Condoleezza Rice is saying "We're trying to expand our capacity of receiving refugees from Iraq". Your capacity? We are 9 million citizens in Sweden, you're more than 300 million and the worlds richest country. How in the fuck can you not receive far far more than we do?

Sweden was strongly against the war but we've had to pay the highest price for what you've done. If someone wages war against the american terrorism, I'd fight in the front row. Words cannot describe how much I hate the american bigotry.

[damam]

if your a big time barak supporter, expect to see migration go through the roof.  You think it was bad in 06 and 07?  Wait till barak gets into office and pulls out as fast as he possibly can and the country drops into a full blown civil war.

dont like that scenario?  then stop accepting immigrants.  force the US to clean up its own messes.  The US has a moral responsibility to the people of Iraq.  In all likelyhood barak will get elected.  Force him to uphold this moral responsibility, dont let him simply pull out as fast as possible.

[gronned]

I'm not a big supporter of any candidate, but I think Obama seems like the least bad option. It's pretty tough becoming president after Bush, as there's too much to clean up. But what's the best solution in Iraq? To stay there for ten years more or pull out soon? I'm not sure it would help an inevitable civil war to wait ten years or start now, it'll happen nonetheless I'm afraid.

I truly don't know what's the best way to deal with Iraq, but as you say, USA has a moral obligation to take care of it, even if I don't think they really can. As far as Sweden goes, it's not really as easy as shutting the boarders, someone has to take care of them, and USA don't want to. How will the one million immigrants(out of nine million) we already have react if we would shut the boarders?

Nearby countries like Denmark who participated in the war could help us ease the burden, and should take their responsibility.

What could Obama really do about Iraq? Even if there's apparently a little less violence nowadays, it's definitely not working, and they should really consider a different approach to dealing with the situation. Easier said than done, but what are the options?

[hamwbone]

sweeden doesnt touch mexico........

[gronned]

Yeah, well... wtf?

So we deserve heaps of immigrants because you get lots of illegal immigrants from Mexico?
Why don't you put up boarders? HAHAHA  

[damam]

civil war is not inevitable in iraq, and the US presence lends stability to the country.  Patraeous has made significant gains in the region as well.  To say that it is not working may be true, but it is just likely to be untrue.  Simply put, not enough time has passed to tell one way or the other.  Its unfortunate that bush listened to rummey, rather than condi, but such is the situation.  One solution to your issue though, is to make iraqi's proud of iraq.  Not only will iraqis want to stay, but it could even cause a reverse flow of migration.  

as for shutting down the borders, who cares how they reacte?  its your country.  And your giving it away.  These are people that are not likely to ever integrate into swedish society.  According to a book I just read, you will likely be living under sharia law within your life time.

[gronned]

Well if you say so, it's all about predictions in an unpredictable area, so I'm becoming desensitised about Iraq.

Who cares how they react? First off that was just one example of many on issues with shutting boarders. Of course it matters if 1/9th of our population will react, it's their country too now. We've had such extreme immigrations the last two decades, especially during the balkan-war and this war, that minor clashes have been inevitable. We're known for being a very patient and caring country, but there's a tension in the air nowadays as many feel we give them so much and get nothing back. IMO we've just had/have terrible immigration politics. This could be fixed, but when it comes to immigrants the Swedish politicians are really counter-productive.

You read a book about specifically Sweden? Or about Sharia and Europe?
Actually I truly doubt we'll ever get any Sharia laws. Though, I was scared as hell when a muslim community a couple years ago suggested incorporating some Sharia laws. Not that they'd ever stand a chance against the Swedes on that matter, but fortunately another muslim community took words and condemned it, but for how long can we stay out?
But we're such non-believers in Sweden, we just have to make them wake up If we stop segregating them we may actually get them to realize there's no gods, I've already come across a few muslims born here that don't care about their religion at all or have actually become atheists. Maybe I'm just dreaming too much, some will always be dogmatic I'm afraid.

I know you're religious too, but I'm just waiting for you to "come out" You're reasonable, and that's important when you try to get rid of something unreasonable just kidding.

[Arvarden]

Depends where you live.  If you live in the city or large towns you get quite a few but in some parts of the England it is spot the ethic minority and has been that way for decades.  Which is bizarre, in some parts of the WestMids I feel like a stranger in my own country.  For example, I was lost so I pulled up to a bunch of Bengali boys and asked for directions.  They replied your in Bengali country and twittered amongst themselves.  I called them a bunch of <censored> *A great, simple insult to non-pakistani's*and sped off very quickly.

[damam]

QUOTE(gronned @ Jun 17 2008, 03:01 PM)

You read a book about specifically Sweden? Or about Sharia and Europe?
Actually I truly doubt we'll ever get any Sharia laws. Though, I was scared as hell when a muslim community a couple years ago suggested incorporating some Sharia laws. Not that they'd ever stand a chance against the Swedes on that matter, but fortunately another muslim community took words and condemned it, but for how long can we stay out?
But we're such non-believers in Sweden, we just have to make them wake up If we stop segregating them we may actually get them to realize there's no gods, I've already come across a few muslims born here that don't care about their religion at all or have actually become atheists. Maybe I'm just dreaming too much, some will always be dogmatic I'm afraid.

actually its a book about denmark, islamic's, and sharia.  But I believe that Sweden and numerous other european countries are in a similar situation.  Basically the book asserts that the islamic migrants have put numerous fail safes in place to insure that assimilation will not happen.  Next, they are replacing themselves at a rate of about 4:1, while the native population's are shrinking (rouglhy 20% of the babies born are born into a islamic fundamentalist family).  Using the trend which has held true to date, in denmark islamics fundamentalist will outnumber the native denmark population around 2030.  Finally, they are well aware of this, they view this as a type of jihad where by they can take over a government from within, and are preaching within mosque about how they will implement sharia once it happens.  will it happen? who knows, but why fuel the fire when you are already having assimilation issues?