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[damam]

just ran across this and thought it was interesting.

I just watched Al Gore's "An Inconvienient Truth" last week (man was that dry and boring, i can believe people actually sat through that in a theatre).  In there he states that there is a 100% consensus on this in the scientific community.  He uses this neat little power point thing to demonstrate that about 1500 scientist that the IPCC considers to be experts are in agreement.  Leaving aside the fact that some of the names on that report do not agree with the IPCC document and have been outspoken about it, and one actually sued to get his name off of it.  None the less, it is an arguement that it is a 100% consensus.

A friend pointed me to the "Oregon Petition".  The oregon petition has 17,800 verified names of scientist.  200 of which are verified phd climatologist.  about 2400 of the verified signers have degrees in relating fields, and 25% have degrees in chemistry and biology.  2/3 of the total signers have higher degrees.  The intention of the petition was to show that there is not a consensus.  

wiki: oregon petition
official website

while this may be a minority of climatologist, and it has all the problems that are inherent in a petition, it is still a good sized number.

[whiteboytroy]

you should check out the great global warming swindle
 http://video.google....562022478442170
or you can find it other places w/ better quality
they talk about the the IPCC in it as well and its not as dry as Al gores apple ad

[blame canada]

QUOTE

Then look at the last decade. Is there a warming trend?

Dur, yea:

QUOTE

Then look at the same day of that month last year or this year. It will be VERY close

Then take it from 20 years ago, will it be close then?


Not trying to start an argument with you wal mart, just trying to show you how obvious it is that out climates temperature is on the rise (whether it be due to greenhouse gases, some in-depth shit about alignment of the earth, and the list goes on).

[whiteboytroy]

about a half a degree Celsius in the past 1000 years doesn't seem to me as a cause for concern

[pug_ster]

1 degree is probably not much, but most of the temperature change is more extreme in the north and south pole by about 3-4 degrees.  Because of that, ice in north and south pole melted much faster than it can form.  Now that's alarming.

[whiteboytroy]

the north and south poles fluctuate all the time its nothing new.

[pug_ster]

QUOTE

Wal-Mart' date='May 9 2007, 04:42 AM' post='3985275']
No it's ok. I take no offense to a different point of view. That's what it's all about. Your graphs are very vague to say the least. "The earth's surface temperature." Well I think we all know that different locations on the Earth's surface have different temperatures. So is this an average of all temperatures on the globe? Is it a measuremant from one static location? We don't know... so we don't know that someone isn't giving us a measurement from one place and then another to make us believe what they want. You won't find a chart like this that has specifics. The ones that have specifics will show fluxuation up and down. Again, don't be so quick to follow just because they flash some pretty numbers. There are plenty of scientists that devote their lives to this research that say it's all bs. There are others that say they observe it. I have yet to see a verifiable piece of information that even eludes to it. There are a bunch of them as you have shown.... but it's impossible to determine what they measured.

Perhaps you did not take into account of how these scientists get the data.  They probably spent years gathering data and make this scienitifc fact.  Have you researched on how they gathered this data?  No.  By your flawed logic, someone can also say the earth is flat because he/she can see into the horizon.  I would not use your theory as fact.

[gronned]

I honestly doubt any scientist believe there's not a global warming going on. The question is more what's causing the warming. Is it human intervention, or is it natural? Is it a great problem or a not too big problem? Is it a rise that'll continue for long or will it go down over a reasonable time again?

That there is a rise in temperature I doubt any scientists argue about.

Unless they come up with scales saying the temperature will fall soon, I see it as a HUGE problem, no matter humans are involved in it or not. People that have lived (and obviously survived) on isolated islands for probably 100 000 years, say they have to move because they'll soon drown otherwise. That should mean there's a greater change in climate now than for a very long time nonetheless.

[JesusHGoddancingChrist]

QUOTE(pug_ster @ May 8 2007, 09:04 PM)

1 degree is probably not much, but most of the temperature change is more extreme in the north and south pole by about 3-4 degrees.  Because of that, ice in north and south pole melted much faster than it can form.  Now that's alarming.

Still,3-4 degrees a year isn't much.Long term goals are important,but we got so many more pressing current issues like education,jobs,and health care which needed last centuries attention already!

[pug_ster]

Higher temperature means more extreme weather.  It has already happened in calfornia where a lack of rainfall can easily trigger forest fires.  Hurricanes will be more powerful because they feed off from the warmer waters in the atlantic and gulf of mexico.  More extreme flooding states near the Mississippi.  I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem nothing to me.

[damam]

QUOTE(gronned @ May 10 2007, 04:40 AM)

I honestly doubt any scientist believe there's not a global warming going on. The question is more what's causing the warming. Is it human intervention, or is it natural? Is it a great problem or a not too big problem? Is it a rise that'll continue for long or will it go down over a reasonable time again?

That there is a rise in temperature I doubt any scientists argue about.

that is the primary disagreement.  its not whether the temperature is rising or not, its whether or not humans are doing it.  As an example, Proton storms are known to cause enormous temperature increases that can continue to last for centuries.

QUOTE(gronned @ May 10 2007, 04:40 AM)

Unless they come up with scales saying the temperature will fall soon, I see it as a HUGE problem, no matter humans are involved in it or not. People that have lived (and obviously survived) on isolated islands for probably 100 000 years, say they have to move because they'll soon drown otherwise. That should mean there's a greater change in climate now than for a very long time nonetheless.

its hard to make accurate predictions either way.  however, one thing that gore left out in his 20 foot water rise prediction (which i believe is what your referring too) is that the IPCC said that this would take place over several millenia.  So if they happen to be right, and we are still driving SUV's around in the year 3972 some of those villagers may unfortunately have to move.  

the predictions for hurricanes, fires, tornadoes, floods etc have not come to fruition either.  Just look at the historical data.  Im not saying it wont ever, but it has not to date.

nor do any of the leading epidemiologists who study malaria believe that global warming will have an effect on outbreaks.