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[jonathan2007]

QUOTE (Yuyu @ Sep 4 2004, 05:52 AM)

So what if that dawns on you five minutes before you die, that means you still go to heaven, correct? Calling me stupid for interpreting the Bible another way than you, that is stupid. You criticize the way I choose to excercise my faith? Sounds like you're a christian, act like one, oh wait, you are acting like a modern christian, you go around telling other christians how they are worshiping the Bible the wrong way... While you're at it, go ahead and tell me I'm going to hell, since you know, I don't have the same way of thinking as you.

I'm not trying to call you stupid for how you believe. But do you honestly believe someone will go to heaven just for being good.

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Acts 4:12 There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of heaven for people to call on to save them."

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Mar 8:38 If a person is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days, I, the Son of Man, will be ashamed of that person when I return in the glory of my Father with the holy angels.

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Eph 2:8 God saved you by his special favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Those 3 passages show that a person must have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ in order to obtain eternal life. Salvation is a gift from God. We are not worthy enough to be able to goto Heaven on our own. We need Jesus. Nobody including me can judge whether a person truly knows Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal Savior. Only God can do that. And Jesus said if you deny or do not acknowledge him on Earth he will not acknowledge you in Heaven and you will be sent into the Lake of Fire forever. And if a person truly does repent on the death bed that they sinned and they need forgiveness only found in Jesus Christ and then confess Him as their Lord and Savior then they will go to Heaven. But will that person have as great of a reward as a person who has suffered their whole life for the cause of Christ?? No, they will not be blessed as much.

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Job 42:12 So the Lord blessed Job in the second half of his life even more than in the beginning. For now he had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, one thousand teams of oxen, and one thousand female donkeys. 13 He also gave Job seven more sons and three more daughters. 14 He named his first daughter Jemimah, the second Keziah, and the third Keren-happuch. 15 In all the land there were no other women as lovely as the daughters of Job. And their father put them into his will along with their brothers.

God blessed Job many many times over what he had originally had. How much greater will our reward in Heaven be for following God our entire lives.  

[pug_ster]

QUOTE (Yuyu @ Sep 4 2004, 05:58 AM)

See my only problem with that statement, is it can't be done. If we respected others "beliefs" all the time, then people like those nice ones from Waco, Texas, could just keep doing what they are doing. We can't tell them it's wrong, according to there religion its ok. Oh and those little Jihads people like to do nowadays, thats ok too, seeing as though in their minds, according to their religion, it is ok. Well, crap, I'm off to start my own religion, we'll have a human sacrifice every Friday. Don't tell me it's wrong though, we need to respect my rights here...

You forgot to mention the crazy polygamist mormans who still live in Utah.  Here's an interesting link about 'alternative' religions or cults  Some of them are kind of weird or satanic...

http://altreligion.about.com/

You forgot to mention that in the US, you must respect the law.  As far as I know, killing or attempting to kill someone else is illegal

[The unProfessional]

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You forgot to mention that in the US, you must respect the law. As far as I know, killing or attempting to kill someone else is illegal

That's the whole point.  In a true separation of church and state, murder under religious motive is ok.  This example is obvious, of course... the gov't should have the right to control homicide.  But, where is the line drawn?

And the average american does crap on the values on which this country was founded.  Look at the whole fiasco with the ten commandments.  Despite being a religious symbol, they stand for civil and moral order, and the basis on which our justice system was founded.  People just had to raise hell about it, though... after all these years.

Life has gotten too easy for Americans.  We're running out of sh*t to bitch about.

[Yuyu]

QUOTE (ZeroDown @ Sep 4 2004, 02:30 PM)

But separation of church and state was never set up to be that extreme.  If any of us had 'true freedom' we could do whatever we wish.  And for the 'line', it is drawn when harm to any person is taking place.  And thats when we run into abortion and homosexuallity.

Well the line was not drawn clearly enough I guess? Both of those things exist in our modern society and it isn't breaking the law. And you have to have all or none. If you only seperate a little, you are still retaining the chritian values it was based upon.

[Yuyu]

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I'm not trying to call you stupid for how you believe. But do you honestly believe someone will go to heaven just for being good.

I didn't say you have to just be good, I did say you have to believe in JC.

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Acts 4:12 There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of heaven for people to call on to save them."

TO me all that says is this, you have to ask for JC to save you. Again, I said that.

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Mar 8:38 If a person is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days, I, the Son of Man, will be ashamed of that person when I return in the glory of my Father with the holy angels.

I am freely admitting that I believe in JC now, doesn't mean I have to be the ay other christians around me are.

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Eph 2:8 God saved you by his special favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

SO in other words, don't be a conceited chritian and dictate to others how they should be saved and worship? I really don't believe in a "correct" way to heaven, that so many people try to preach nowadays.

[The unProfessional]

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If you only seperate a little, you are still retaining the chritian values it was based upon.

I'm entirely non-religious, and I find the line to be quite appropriate.  It's not good enough for everybody (hence the constant bitching), but some religious values often provide us with good moral code.  The reason abortion is such a hot topic is because it literally falls ON the 'line'.  As for homosexuality, I think it's strictly a Christian dilemma, and religious zealots will eventually give in.

[The unProfessional]

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What would that be? Any religious values I have been taught I would have seen as common sense otherwise. Morals differ person to person depending who taught them or how they were learned.

I suppose I'm not giving the average American enough credit.  You are correct in saying that such moral codes are provided to us by merely common sense.  Somehow they still fail.

[nfs911]

" I voted for the $87 billion tax cut before I voted agianst it" HMHMHMHM Anyone else see that Kerry is kinda saying dumb things? Everyone says Bush is stupid but hes not, only idiot ignorant liberals say that hes stupid becasue they know that if they were in office they couldn't do a better job. Did you see all the riots at the republican convention, the republican convention had ALOT more riots compaed to the Democratic convention. Republicans have more class than democrats. All you stupid liberals want to take $ from the rich and give to the poor. The the fricken poor peoples fault that they didnt make use of themself and get a job. Just becasue some people are rich and sucessfull, doesnt mean you have to take their $.

[jonathan2007]

QUOTE (Yuyu @ Sep 4 2004, 09:57 PM)

I didn't say you have to just be good, I did say you have to believe in JC. TO me all that says is this, you have to ask for JC to save you. Again, I said that. I am freely admitting that I believe in JC now, doesn't mean I have to be the ay other christians around me are. SO in other words, don't be a conceited chritian and dictate to others how they should be saved and worship? I really don't believe in a "correct" way to heaven, that so many people try to preach nowadays.

But just believing is not good enough. You need to live a life honoring to God and you need to do your best to follow all of His commands. Even the demons and Satan believe that there is a God (for after all Satan used to be an angel until he was cast out of Heaven for wanting to be God) but are the demons saved? Of course not. So just believing is not enough. Only God can judge the desires of a man's heart.

[Maximumbeing]

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Everyone says Bush is stupid but hes not, only idiot ignorant liberals say that hes stupid becasue they know that if they were in office they couldn't do a better job.

So we ignorant liberals say that Bush is stupid because we think we couldn't do a better job?... If you were trying to come across as an idiot, you are heard loud and clear.

Wir lieben Bush.

Wir lieben Krieg.

Wir lieben Deutschland!

[nemt]

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Bush is a total moron, you know...a complete idiot, but he managed to steal the election and dupe the entire world with his ingenius web of Iraq lies.  Oh, and he should free Mumia.

[thomes08]

QUOTE (nfs911 @ Sep 4 2004, 11:45 PM)

" I voted for the $87 billion tax cut before I voted agianst it" HMHMHMHM Anyone else see that Kerry is kinda saying dumb things? Everyone says Bush is stupid but hes not, only idiot ignorant liberals say that hes stupid becasue they know that if they were in office they couldn't do a better job. Did you see all the riots at the republican convention, the republican convention had ALOT more riots compaed to the Democratic convention. Republicans have more class than democrats. All you stupid liberals want to take $ from the rich and give to the poor. The the fricken poor peoples fault that they didnt make use of themself and get a job. Just becasue some people are rich and sucessfull, doesnt mean you have to take their $.

there are so many parts in this post that point to the fact that you are a spoiled, sheltered 12 year old girl with no understanding of how anything in the "real world" works except for your Barbie Convertable.

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" I voted for the $87 billion tax cut before I voted agianst it" HMHMHMHM Anyone else see that Kerry is kinda saying dumb things?

yeah that statement is dumb, but what about all the things your guy says?  It's like you're trying to bring the attention to the fact that Bush is known for saying dumb things.

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Everyone says Bush is stupid but hes not, only idiot ignorant liberals say that hes stupid..

Whether you think bush is stupid or not is up to you, but you just referred to a group just as large as yours as all being ignorant idiots.  That's a pretty ignorant and idiotic thing to say don't you agree?  

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... becasue they know that if they were in office they couldn't do a better job.

Since i'm trying not to take a liberal standpoint here, if you are in fact over 15 and remember the 8 years the last idiot ignorant liberal was in office, think about the state of our country then.  Were you happy, were your parents doing well, was the economy well, was the country as divided as it was today, did you have friends forced to kill people overseas for no reason?  Face it there's going to be more idiot ignorant liberal presidents in your day, and once you're old enough you may even get the chance to vote against one.

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Did you see all the riots at the republican convention, the republican convention had ALOT more riots compaed to the Democratic convention.

The democratic convention was in kerry's home, democratic state surrounded by people who support him.  Bush on the otherhand went to New York City.  A city in which he has over 6 million people who don't like him.  Trust me more than 1 in 6 liberals HATE BUSH with a passion.  So you have at least 1 million people who HATE this man, while 5 million don't like him at all, and he decides to have his convention there.  If kerry came to hickville texas and took over the city there i'm sure there would be PLENTY of protestors.  

Please respond to what i just said i want to know if you have any understanding on why there were protestors there.  Do you have any understanding of this?  Not even the other republicans on this forum are confused by why there were protestors.

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Republicans have more class than democrats.

all i can say is if that OPINION is somehow a true fact, i hope you're not using yourself as an example of class.  Are you?

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All you stupid liberals want to take $ from the rich and give to the poor.

classy argument there buddy:-)

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The the fricken poor peoples fault that they didnt make use of themself and get a job.

this is the main reason you sound like a little girl.  You have absolutely NO IDEA what it's like to struggle do you.  Tell us, have you ever had to work for anything?  Have you ever had to put food on the table for your family?  Have you ever had to do that while tring to earn an education?  have you ever had a real uphill struggle before in your life?  A serious one too, not just somethign challenging.  You have no idea of the fact that not all people have it as good as you obviously have it, some people have to work harder than the rich people just to be able to feed their son.  Think about that, ass

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Just becasue some people are rich and sucessfull, doesnt mean you have to take their $.

there are plenty of rich people who aren't sucessfull.  Bush is one in my opinion.  Think about before he was president or governor, he was very well off but in no was sucessfull.  His political career aside because that's what this is all about.
It's good to know you define success by money.  Shows you know what it's like to be a stuggling american, and shows you have a lot of class.


thomes08

[pug_ster]

QUOTE (nfs911 @ Sep 4 2004, 11:45 PM)

" I voted for the $87 billion tax cut before I voted agianst it" HMHMHMHM Anyone else see that Kerry is kinda saying dumb things? Everyone says Bush is stupid but hes not, only idiot ignorant liberals say that hes stupid becasue they know that if they were in office they couldn't do a better job. Did you see all the riots at the republican convention, the republican convention had ALOT more riots compaed to the Democratic convention. Republicans have more class than democrats. All you stupid liberals want to take $ from the rich and give to the poor. The the fricken poor peoples fault that they didnt make use of themself and get a job. Just becasue some people are rich and sucessfull, doesnt mean you have to take their $.

For one thing, get the facts straight, it is about 87 billion on the 'Reconstruction' of Iraq, not tax cuts.  I guess dumbasses like you failed to see the reason why Kerry voted against the 87 billion.  He voted against because he don't want to give a 'blank check' to the Bush Administration unless they write in detail what it is going to be spending.  Guess what?  About 10% of the money (that's 8.8 billion) was unaccounted for.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5763483/

Maybe if the Bush adminstration have the brains of saying what are they going to spend it on Iraq, maybe Kerry would've said yes.  I rather have a president who made a dumb remark about spending my tax dollars than a President who's too dumb to spend my tax dollars.

[melon]

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Anyone else see that Kerry is kinda saying dumb things? Everyone says Bush is stupid but hes not, only idiot ignorant liberals say that hes stupid becasue they know that if they were in office they couldn't do a better job. Did you see all the riots at the republican convention, the republican convention had ALOT more riots compaed to the Democratic convention. Republicans have more class than democrats.

How exactly are liberals ignorant? Liberals dont want a future where the country is controlled by corporations that can change the Law to allow them to force people into poverty, just to give greater profit margins for the company and its senior management.  

Well thats already happened but  when you see a president making it a lot worse and teking there freedom they are pissed off. The fact so many people demonstrated against Bush shows how hated he is. In this country roughly for every 20 people that hated Tony Blair 1 went to protest. Presuming that statistic is same in the US that is a lot of people.

And Clinton was no angel but your country was in a far better state when it was under his control.

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All you stupid liberals want to take $ from the rich and give to the poor.

Dont forget rescuing Maid Marrion along the way  
Seriously, just for manual workers like cleaners and waitress'  to get a wage they can actually live on, or for people to be able to afford to live in a house instead of a trailer. How about a health service everyone can use, and if your child dies from cancer or not isnt based on your bank balance.

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The the fricken poor peoples fault that they didnt make use of themself and get a job. Just becasue some people are rich and sucessfull, doesnt mean you have to take their $.

This  this is where you show your brilliant mind and total grasp of politics, sociology, economics, and educational theory.





Congratulations on showing me how snobbish, selfish, and ignorant of the "real", world spoilt, rich kids are.

[pug_ster]

Talking about dumb things that people say.  There must be at least a hundred 'mis-quotes' from Bush here.  It is so hilarious:)

http://www.thedubyar...com/quotes.html