Print

[nha]

AND yet MS still provides the exact same services over the PC for free (msn live and hotmail)! - which completely throws everything this guy is saying - sounds like he's desparately trying to make up a reason with little support or real reference.

He should have just been honest... well we like to make money - and that's that.

OH and yes some codes only work on certain regions - WHY?? I have no good answer - I am currently in the USA and bought a $50 12 months plus 1 free card and it doesn't work at all for my uk gamertag.??!! I phoned MS and they claim they can't do anything as they don't deal with codes specifically - crazy system!! So much for international play time anywhere in the world!

[luther349]

i relly dont get the whining abought live. its ad free gaming . if you played any pc game like lets say cs the things are loaded with ads to no end even in the game itsself. yes when i saw that i pulled that crap right out of my pc forever. the fact is thats how it is now for most majer games like that your eyther paying for the multiplayer like on a 360 or your getting adbombed endlessly

another point is that the 360 keeps alot of the whining children and cheaters out compare any 360 game to a pc game and you knoe what i mean simply couse its a pay service. so in the end your paying for better qualty and no ads. if live whent free it would go to hell in a hand basket very fast even i would quit using it. any pc gamer knoes what i mean free is free but you get what you pay for.

[Hopeful]

QUOTE(Xbox-Scene @ Jun 26 2007, 04:27 AM)

"There are bandwidth costs, there are things that go above and beyond", said Chris Paladino of the Xbox Community Team. "I think it goes back to this unified system. We have to have voice communication, text communication, now we're doing cross-platform. There's Marketplace, there are demos, and all these things don't just mystically hover around that you can pull them out of the ether."

Microsoft PR manager Michael Wolf later appended Paladino's statements by emphasizing that, as a Live customer, "you get what you pay for" with the service's myriad of options. And in Wolf's estimation, the customer satisfaction numbers for Microsoft's Live service have been "through the roof".

BULL fucking SHIT

First I want to clear up that I have NO PROBLEM with some people enjoying live. I have a problem with people who cry against the statement "it's not worth the price". Some people feel their experience is worth the fee and that's FINE.

HOWEVER...

EVERY "justification" listed here is absolutely bogus.
(And most of the listed "justifiers" are annoying advertisement/sales features that come free wether you want them or not)

Live is SUPPLYING you PLAYING bandwidth?! Wait... isn't that uh... provided by your internet service? Ohhhhhhhhh, wait, live is NOT providing us playing bandwidth! The tricky devils, listing advertising bandwidth as a benefit. You mean they'll actually spend a little bit on bandwidth that does nothing but sell content and make a fortune?! Fuck!

You're not even playing servers. Live just sets a "match" linking two players and their hardware. (Absolutely free on PC.)

Did we ASK for "cross platform"? Did we beg 360 to double its money by welding our CONSOLE with the PC market? Did we beg for our consoles to have LESS "console"? And desperately request the mismatched feel and disadvantage of mouse against controller?

"Marketplace". An online store through which ms gets richer? Charge me right now! Wow thanks for setting up a way to make my money by SELLING me "extras". Some of which should be free or earnable. What a gift to ME as a consumer!

DEMOS?! You mean... game companies will allow us to get hooked on a small portion of their game for FREE? And you will let this generate money for both you and them? And in exchange, I get to buy the product this advertising has enticed me to?! WOW, what a benefit for ME!

The only "options" I see are products you buy separately. And they have nothing to do with gold.

Suggesting that advertisement and sales machines, pushed into the public to rake in money, are painstakingly provided customer benefits? WOW!

Point Blank: BULL freakin' SHIT

[mlapaglia]

QUOTE(Hopeful @ Jun 26 2007, 10:48 AM)

Live is SUPPLYING you PLAYING bandwidth?! Wait... isn't that uh... provided by your internet service? Ohhhhhhhhh, wait, live is NOT providing us playing bandwidth! The tricky devils, listing advertising bandwidth as a benefit. You mean they'll actually spend a little bit on bandwidth that does nothing but sell content and make a fortune?! Fuck!

Point Blank: BULL freakin' SHIT

even Microsoft has an ISP

[Maverick0984]

QUOTE(edmans76 @ Jun 26 2007, 06:50 AM)

Why are some people focusing on the negative points of paying for a live subscription?  The biggest point of all (IMO) hasnt even been mentioned.

To use live, you need games to play on it.  With the popularity it has achieved and the money microsoft are making from the service, it will increasingly give them more incentive to design or commision better and better games, to attract more users to the service.  So for us, paying for live subscription will mean better overall choice in high quality games to play online.

Think of it as an investment towards getting a higher standard (hopefully)

wasn't buying the 360 the investment?  

[ProphetOfPain]

Anyone who bitches about the cost of xbox live, I don't care if your a pc only gamer or a 360 owner, I bet dollars to donuts doesn't have a girlfriend... for christ sakes, I guess the other companies can offer free online play because NOBODY's playing on them.. you think if PSX had as many people logging the hours halo 2 gets it'd be free?  ha... anyways, get with the program.. $50.00 for anything for a year these days is DIRT CHEAP, don't care who offers what.. you are just broke dick poor or rich and like to bitch!  peace

[edit]  also!  In regards to those trying to pull the free silver account mumbo jumbo... you every think THAT... the reason you have free silver accounts is because SOMEONE is paying for GOLD accounts...  if 90% of the users where on silver, it wouldn't be free

[TeamDevil]

QUOTE(xnoelahg @ Jun 26 2007, 04:35 AM)

I love how they completely dodged the fact that the voice/text communication as well as marketplace features are all FREE with your FREE silver account. I AM a LIVE customer, and I love using it, but paying to be a GOLD customer simply 'unlocks' the online multiplayer features. If you have a silver account, you pay only for content that costs. You can still text me, send photos to me, and even voice chat with me. You can also play the free demos, and the rest of the marketplace content...JUST LIKE ME.

 The main thing I'm upset about is that gold is a ripoff. Is $50 a year much? No. I spend more than that on drinks sometimes, but I like to get what I pay for. When you're a gold customer and you're playing online with people, you are using your own bandwidth, which you've already paid your ISP for.  Sony is offering their customers dedicated servers, and it's free. Why should we have to pay $50 just to unlock the multiplayer feature, and have to use our bandwidth?

I agree with you and maybe some other posts.

This guy is bull shitting. Gold members are constantly paying for shit like wallpaper and avatars and xbla games. The text voice and unified crap he speaks of is availabale for free with messengers like aim and yahoo. So why does it cost for the xbox??? Demos are advertisements for games so we should be charged for that too? microsoft is convinced that it's customer are idiots and I am beginning to agree.

$50 (isn't much to many people) a year is too much to play just to be able to play your friends online. You bought the game that should be enough. The bandwith for that isn't theirs it is ours and we pay an isp monthly for that. Host advantage and other flaws will continue to persist because microsoft rather pocket $150,000,000 a year. Then developers like bungie make excuses for their poor graphics and lack of inovation becuse the p2p host system they implemented doesn't allow for it. Open your eyes you idiots.

Saying that you pay it because there is no other option and the fee is nominal makes more sense then trying to justify it for the guy raping you.


[ts]

QUOTE(ProphetOfPain @ Jun 26 2007, 05:37 PM)

Anyone who bitches about the cost of xbox live, I don't care if your a pc only gamer or a 360 owner, I bet dollars to donuts doesn't have a girlfriend... for christ sakes, I guess the other companies can offer free online play because NOBODY's playing on them..

your logic is flawed.

For the record I have a girlfriend and she is probably hotter than yours (if you even have one).  

[JORT]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jun 26 2007, 02:23 PM)

I was referring to the choice of buy it or not rather than the options of Xlink etc.
We want to do plenty of things but I think we shouldn't expect services to be provided for free. The PSN has no fee but the complaints levelled at it then is how crap it is. If live is a must have for people then I don't think the cost is unjustified or unreasonable. You can't buy anything here in the UK for less than a £1 a week.

We as consumers have every right to EXPECT services to be free. PSN is not as good as XBL, but Halo 2 and many games have had connection issues (COD2 anybody?) Playstation 3, hasn't had these kinds of problems. I'm kinda of lost where I'm trying to get at, but M$ has every resource to make this service free... The only thing keeping them from doing it is the consumer... Why would they give back money now?

[Chancer]

QUOTE(JORT @ Jun 26 2007, 06:14 PM)

We as consumers have every right to EXPECT services to be free. PSN is not as good as XBL, but Halo 2 and many games have had connection issues (COD2 anybody?) Playstation 3, hasn't had these kinds of problems. I'm kinda of lost where I'm trying to get at, but M$ has every resource to make this service free... The only thing keeping them from doing it is the consumer... Why would they give back money now?

Get real. You do realise people have to be paid when they are employed by MS or would you go to work for nothing? The wages and costs are recovered from many sources and the purpose of the business is to generate income. This income goes into future development as well. If everything was free costs and jobs have to be cut. Too many people EXPECT free stuff this day and age and it is not possible. Everything has a cost.
Explain why as a Consumer you have the right to expect services for Free.
The cost as stated in here is almost free anyway. (Less than $1 a week in the US)
The PSN does have problems. I have experienced them first hand and although XBL had issues when I used it it was a far better service.
You seem to assume that because you have an MS product MS owes you something.  They don't have to provide services for free, but in actual fact they do (Silver)

[vicious6969]

Actually you cannot use video messaging on XBL on the free silver account.

You can only do it on gold... I think that's a total joke.  WHY are they charging for video messaging??  They are only match-making, they're not hosting the call for you.  Pathetic microsoft.

What service are you getting from Xbox live apart from Match making?  matcth making should be worth $1 per month. All the other things are paid for things, adverts.

Demos, anyone who pays for a demo is a mug.  Ditto gamer pictures and themes, whereelse do you pay for themes??

YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR BANDWIDTH FOR GAMES!!

However am I paying for XBL, yes!  I love the community. I get my yearly subscription from ebay about half the price.

The only way we could get them to reduce prices is if there was a mass boycott, but it won't happen.

The situation will only become worse with the advent of consumables, pretty soon you won't get much for your $50 game, I'm telling you...

[ToBbErT]

QUOTE(Hopeful @ Jun 26 2007, 04:48 PM)

BULL fucking SHIT

First I want to clear up that I have NO PROBLEM with some people enjoying live. I have a problem with people who cry against the statement "it's not worth the price". Some people feel their experience is worth the fee and that's FINE.

HOWEVER...

EVERY "justification" listed here is absolutely bogus.
(And most of the listed "justifiers" are annoying advertisement/sales features that come free wether you want them or not)

Live is SUPPLYING you PLAYING bandwidth?! Wait... isn't that uh... provided by your internet service? Ohhhhhhhhh, wait, live is NOT providing us playing bandwidth! The tricky devils, listing advertising bandwidth as a benefit. You mean they'll actually spend a little bit on bandwidth that does nothing but sell content and make a fortune?! Fuck!

You're not even playing servers. Live just sets a "match" linking two players and their hardware. (Absolutely free on PC.)

Did we ASK for "cross platform"? Did we beg 360 to double its money by welding our CONSOLE with the PC market? Did we beg for our consoles to have LESS "console"? And desperately request the mismatched feel and disadvantage of mouse against controller?

"Marketplace". An online store through which ms gets richer? Charge me right now! Wow thanks for setting up a way to make my money by SELLING me "extras". Some of which should be free or earnable. What a gift to ME as a consumer!

DEMOS?! You mean... game companies will allow us to get hooked on a small portion of their game for FREE? And you will let this generate money for both you and them? And in exchange, I get to buy the product this advertising has enticed me to?! WOW, what a benefit for ME!

The only "options" I see are products you buy separately. And they have nothing to do with gold.

Suggesting that advertisement and sales machines, pushed into the public to rake in money, are painstakingly provided customer benefits? WOW!

Point Blank: BULL freakin' SHIT

Your totally right dude!We should ms down!

[xnoelahg]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jun 26 2007, 06:27 PM)

Get real. You do realise people have to be paid when they are employed by MS or would you go to work for nothing? The wages and costs are recovered from many sources and the purpose of the business is to generate income. This income goes into future development as well. If everything was free costs and jobs have to be cut. Too many people EXPECT free stuff this day and age and it is not possible. Everything has a cost.
Explain why as a Consumer you have the right to expect services for Free.
The cost as stated in here is almost free anyway. (Less than $1 a week in the US)
The PSN does have problems. I have experienced them first hand and although XBL had issues when I used it it was a far better service.
You seem to assume that because you have an MS product MS owes you something.  They don't have to provide services for free, but in actual fact they do (Silver)

 You get real. I can't believe this came from YOU, of all people. Do you not realise that everything they argued for justifying the cost of XBL gold accounts is available FREE to silver users?

* GOLD accounts cost $50/year, NOT silver accounts
* GOLD does everything silver does, and UNLOCKS online multiplayer
* Content on XBL costs money, which pays employees, etc. Free content is classified as ADVERTISING costs.

 Again, the cost is relatively cheap, but just because I can afford it doesn't mean I should be asked to pay for it when it's not actually WORTH the money. I like playing games online, so I pay the $50, but I should be able to use my own bandwidth to play my own games for free. If MS wants to charge for gold accounts, they should give us dedicated servers, or at least strip the ping limit to allow competition (another MS monopoly, anyone?).

 Look at it like this: You buy a computer, and you pay your ISP. You can send and recieve e-mail, IM's, and everything else. You pop in a game and want to play with your friend (who also has the internet and the same game) online, and decide to host the game with your bandwidth. Now imagine someone coming in and saying "If you want to host this/play this, pay more".  Now I know that there are plenty of services to play online games that cost money, but THEY provide the bandwidth.

 What does MS actually DO for gold subscribers?

 Seriously, what do they do? Tell me again what I'm paying for.

[Altima NEO]

I dont mind the price tag for live, but I do mind having to pay so much more for all those extra goodies. I mean seriously, you can end up paying an extra 10 - 20 dollars for a few goodies, marking up a game to over 70 dollars. That sucks.
And no, I dont buy the extra goodies.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

You get real. I can't believe this came from YOU, of all people.

You need to clarify what you mean by that. Don't trot out the usual old crap about being a Mod, unbiased etc etc. Mods are not entitled to an opinion or reply?

QUOTE

GOLD accounts cost $50/year, NOT silver accounts
* GOLD does everything silver does, and UNLOCKS online multiplayer

And your point is?? I never said Silver costs money. I do have a 360.
It's very easy if the only difference is online multiplayer and you feel it is a rip off DO NOT PAY. I jacked live for different reasons. Do I miss it ? Yes I do but the big difference is  I voted with my wallet over something and I have the conviction to stand by my decision. All I see is people telling us how expensive and what a rip of it is yet.. FACT: When the bannings started on live you could not get on here for thousands of posters all moaning that their beloved live was snatched from them. You can't have it both ways.
 

QUOTE

* Content on XBL costs money, which pays employees, etc. Free content is classified as ADVERTISING costs.

That doesn't cover a fraction of the costs of running a huge business

QUOTE

Again, the cost is relatively cheap, but just because I can afford it doesn't mean I should be asked to pay for it when it's not actually WORTH the money. I like playing games online, so I pay the $50

So that fact alone makes it worth it for you. You are getting access to set up something you enjoy for cheap money . Why is that not worth paying for?

QUOTE

What does MS actually DO for gold subscribers?

Seriously, what do they do? Tell me again what I'm paying for.

See the above answer. But if you really feel that way I would have to ask Why are you paying it then?
I would not pay for something that I thought gave me nothing so why are you paying only you can answer that.

QUOTE

he Like it or Leave it argument - ....please. IF there were ANY other viable options, we'd all be using those. But thanks to MS enforcing the Ping Limit. There are none. I have plenty of friends/family over the country that I enjoy playing with. If we could setup a free service, we'd be playing on it.

But you expect MS to just because they make big profits.

QUOTE

I dont expect anything for free, but the cost far outweighs whats being offered. Especially considering the ad revenue MS is getting now. A fair price would be $25-30 a year.

That was the point I was trying to make earlier. Live could be $5 for 5 years and people would still moan

QUOTE

We paying subrscribers should get access to more content than silver members, like a free gamerpicture/ theme/ movie/ arcade game every month or so.

This I think would be a good inducement. This would be a benefit of Gold that may make some people cross from silver to gold

My opinion (yes I am entitled to post)
XBL is worth the money. It gives you the vehicle to play against your mates etc and if you enjoy it then it is a worthwhile investment.
If you want to know what rip off is  it is paying £11,000 a year in Taxes to furnish unemployed teenagers with free council houses and benefits. (But that is another story)

Finally a Plea. When ever I post anywhere making an argument or whatever against some points, members like to tell me that I should not be posting this that or the other. My posting is within the rules here. I am not hurling insults at people and the content is on topic so please let me do so and respond by all means with counter argument...WITHOUT throwing the same old tired lines in about what I should and should not post because I am  a Mod. I am a member here like anyone else or would you prefer I spent my time just removing posts and suspending people? Believe it or not I do like to discuss stuff on here. Some I agree with some I will not.

Edit..just saw this reply

QUOTE

mean seriously, you can end up paying an extra 10 - 20 dollars for a few goodies, marking up a game to over 70 dollars. That sucks.
And no, I dont buy the extra goodies.

That I support you for. You make your point but you are willing to stand by your principles and not give them that money.

[iwanttheagrocrag]

I enjoy paying that much just to keep the cheats out, thats just the main reason.