Print

[unclepauly]

The error correcting machine just malfunctioned.

[Ballz2TheWallz]

wow

image quality 1080i>720p, 1440i is NOT the same thing as 720p, 1440 WILL LOOK MUCH MUCH BETTER IQ WISE

1920x1080>1280x720 plain and simple when it comes to detail, so would you mindless drones shut the fuck up, interlace artifacts dont really bother me unless being displayed on native progressive screen with a shitting scaleing chip, only drawback in 1080i is interlacing limiting 30fps which is fixed in 1080p

[Ballz2TheWallz]

1440i=3686400 pixels per frame, max of 30fps gives you 110592000pixels per second
720p=921600 pixels per frame and a max of 60fps 55296000pixels per second, with your logic your still getting owned by your own fucking numbers, i hate tards

edit: 1080i=2073600 pixels per frame and at 30fps 62208000pixels per second, still being raped

[OEM]

QUOTE(Ballz2TheWallz @ Dec 3 2005, 05:05 PM)

1440i=3686400 pixels per frame, max of 30fps gives you 110592000pixels per second
720p=921600 pixels per frame and a max of 60fps 55296000pixels per second, with your logic your still getting owned by your own fucking numbers, i hate tards

edit: 1080i=2073600 pixels per frame and at 30fps 62208000pixels per second, still being raped

Well then maybe you'd care to explain why 720p require higher bandwidth than 1080i ?
(32KHz for 1080i and 37KHz for 720p if I remember correctly.) There are very few CRT's that natively support 720p for this very reason. The manufacturing costs are much higher. 99% of all sets that claim to support 720p, actually scale the signal to 1080i.

BTW this is a CRT that actually does fully support 720p: http://www.digitalco...ew/dm7352sf.asp

Anyway I've seen both, and like many people I much prefer 720p. Slighly less detail yes, but a much more stable and overall pleasant picture. Also there are no Xbox 360 games yet (as far as I know) that natively support 1080i/p, and there probably won't be a lot of them (if any). Scaling 720p to 1080i will not improve image quality at all, it will make it look far worse.

[OEM]

QUOTE(195 @ Nov 30 2005, 12:06 AM)

Also keep in mind that 1st gen xbox360's have an analog output for their video instead of digital (hence no DVI or HDMI input cables), so even with the right TV, you still wont be getting the most out of your picture.  The conversion from the analog cable to a digital signal processor inherits a loss of quality.  Hopefully this will change in the future.  If it does, go DVI or HDMI connection over component.

Any questions or comments let me know.  

CRT is analog technology, so this is not really true. Also component video is *not* as good as RGB/VGA.

[ferrari_rulz_02]

yeah, there is quite a bit of mis-information in this thread...

[prankfurter]

QUOTE(ferrari_rulz_02 @ Dec 4 2005, 07:37 PM)

yeah, there is quite a bit of mis-information in this thread...

thats true

[195]

QUOTE(OEM @ Dec 4 2005, 03:58 AM)

Well then maybe you'd care to explain why 720p require higher bandwidth than 1080i ?
(32KHz for 1080i and 37KHz for 720p if I remember correctly.) There are very few CRT's that natively support 720p for this very reason. The manufacturing costs are much higher. 99% of all sets that claim to support 720p, actually scale the signal to 1080i.

BTW this is a CRT that actually does fully support 720p: http://www.digitalco...ew/dm7352sf.asp

Anyway I've seen both, and like many people I much prefer 720p. Slighly less detail yes, but a much more stable and overall pleasant picture. Also there are no Xbox 360 games yet (as far as I know) that natively support 1080i/p, and there probably won't be a lot of them (if any). Scaling 720p to 1080i will not improve image quality at all, it will make it look far worse.

This does support 720p, butt you lose lines of resolution because they only display 1024x768.  So it's still not using a true 720p.  This is more of a widescreen computer monitor.

[195]

QUOTE(Ballz2TheWallz @ Dec 3 2005, 03:09 PM)

wow

image quality 1080i>720p, 1440i is NOT the same thing as 720p, 1440 WILL LOOK MUCH MUCH BETTER IQ WISE

1920x1080>1280x720 plain and simple when it comes to detail, so would you mindless drones shut the fuck up, interlace artifacts dont really bother me unless being displayed on native progressive screen with a shitting scaleing chip, only drawback in 1080i is interlacing limiting 30fps which is fixed in 1080p

Then, what is the interlaced version of 720p?

[Ballz2TheWallz]

QUOTE(195 @ Dec 9 2005, 08:05 PM)

Then, what is the interlaced version of 720p?

720i DUH, not an HD standard......tard

thats like saying the progressive version of 480i is 240p

[prankfurter]

haha... tard

[JNasty4G63]

QUOTE(BigDaddySlappy @ Dec 10 2005, 10:28 AM)

Samsung's Slim Fit 30 inch CRT TV is native 720p and it shows.

I've been a fan of samsung products for awhile, but this tv in my opinion isnt very good.
It'll downconvert 1080i to 720p.

You have that backwards.   They UPconvert from 720p to 1080i.   No CRT display on sale right now has 720p native.   They just don't do it.   It will ACCEPT a 720p signal, but then it just converts it to 1080i.   Even the Sony XBRs, which some say are the best of the direct view CRTs, convert 720p to 1080i.

Consumer television, large format CRTs just can't do a 720p signal.   They don't have enough vertical scanning frequency to do it.  Thats why.   The big Sony XBRs have the display size and resolution available with their screens.   But, they've yet to make one with a high enough scanning frequency to actually resolve 720p.   They will do 480p, but all other HD signals sent to one will be converted to 1080i.

You have to look at it in a scanning frequency view.   The frequency of a CRT is measured as horizontal lines per second.   After seeing what it takes, you'll understand......

480i - 480 lines x 30 frames = 14.4kHz
480p - 480 lines x 60 frames = 28.8kHz
1080i - 1080 lines x 30 frames = 32.4kHz
720p - 720 lines x 60 frames = 43.2kHz
1080p - 1080 lines x 60 frames = 64.8kHz

Thats why large format CRT PC monitors cost so much back in the day.   To get them to be able to show such high resolutions, they had to have very high frequency electron guns....

1600x1200 @ 85Hz = 102kHz
1920x1440 @ 85Hz = 122kHz

You can see there, the high frequency required for desktop CRT displays.   Even now, the 24" Sony FW900, which most people say is the best of the consumer CRTs, and is now almost 4 years old, still costs about $1000 new these days.   Its just very expensive to get CRTs to display that much picture.   With LCDs, its easy.   You just build a panel with that many pixels, and your done.   But, its not that easy with CRT.

Don't look for any 720p or 1080p CRT televisions any time soon.   Its just not very cost effective, for one.   And secondly, most consumers now a days are looking for BIG and THIN.

A CRT display can only feasibly get about 40" in size.   Thats not very big by todays standards.   So, strike one.   And, they just aren't small or thin.   The old 40" XBR Sony made a few years ago was close to 300lbs.   Thats just not as "sexy" as a nice small 42" plasma or LCD.   So, strike two on CRT displays.

When you add in the costs that it would take to get a 720p or 1080p display, you soon have strike three.   And, we all know what happens with your third strike.......

Hilg

[JNasty4G63]

QUOTE(195 @ Dec 13 2005, 11:43 AM)

The interlaced version of 720p is 1440i man.

No, its not.   The imaginary interlaced version of 720p, of which there is no real format, would be 720i.   You are mistaking the frequency rate, and the interlacing and progressive formats.

If you have a 480i image, like something on NTSC televisions, the progressive version of that image is not 240p, as your logic would suggest.   Yes, those two formats have the same scanning frequency, but thats not how it works.   The progressive version of 480i is 480p.

Same with your 720p.   If there actually was an interlaced version, it would be 720i, and it would run at half of the scanning frequency of 720p.   Not the same frequency like you think.

That link you provide is kind of misleading.   Thats not showing REAL resolutions.   Its just showing how you can set up a HTPC to output HD content.   And, like I just explained, all that your doing by outputing something at 1440i is just sending a signal the TV can easily convert back to 720p.   Because, as I said before, 1440i isn't a real HD resolution.   Just a way to trick a TV with a usable frequency.

QUOTE(195 @ Dec 13 2005, 11:43 AM)

Thanks for the backup on this, man.

I'm not backing anyone up.   I'm just trying to, as you put it "help out a fellow xbox buddy" with some info.   Your info is slightly right, but off in logic.  Thats all.   Because, before he called you a tard, which was very funny, he was right.   The interlaced version of 720p is 720i, not 1440i like you so vehemently proclaim.

Hilg

[Heet]

Welcome to the forums 195.  Kind of like being jumped into a gang isnt it?       Just accept being called retarded as XS love.  

I've learned a lot here in 4 years (probably more than I did at xboxhacker.net which is astonishing to even type) but i have my bruises.

[Ballz2TheWallz]

QUOTE(JNasty4G63 @ Dec 14 2005, 08:03 AM)

No, its not.   The imaginary interlaced version of 720p, of which there is no real format, would be 720i.   You are mistaking the frequency rate, and the interlacing and progressive formats.

If you have a 480i image, like something on NTSC televisions, the progressive version of that image is not 240p, as your logic would suggest.   Yes, those two formats have the same scanning frequency, but thats not how it works.   The progressive version of 480i is 480p.

Same with your 720p.   If there actually was an interlaced version, it would be 720i, and it would run at half of the scanning frequency of 720p.   Not the same frequency like you think.

That link you provide is kind of misleading.   Thats not showing REAL resolutions.   Its just showing how you can set up a HTPC to output HD content.   And, like I just explained, all that your doing by outputing something at 1440i is just sending a signal the TV can easily convert back to 720p.   Because, as I said before, 1440i isn't a real HD resolution.   Just a way to trick a TV with a usable frequency.

I'm not backing anyone up.   I'm just trying to, as you put it "help out a fellow xbox buddy" with some info.   Your info is slightly right, but off in logic.  Thats all.   Because, before he called you a tard, which was very funny, he was right.   The interlaced version of 720p is 720i, not 1440i like you so vehemently proclaim.

Hilg

THANK YOU, theres a reason im ignorant, because people here are convinced that interlacing a resolution automatically creates a resolution with 3 times the detail, scanning rate has nothing to do with it besides what resolution your tv can display(which technically a 480i tv should show, atleast techniqally, could show 240p but that doesnt make it the progressive version of 480i, thats 640x480 vs 320x340 BIG motherfucking differnce)