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[Mr_Mo]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Feb 24 2006, 11:19 PM)

MS is a US based company, assuming they are using the same "you dont own the console your just leasing it from us" gimmick they used with xbox 1, then it should still be protected under US law, no matter what country your in

Ehmmm, no... US laws don't apply in DK. Do you really think retailers would lease something from MS and then sell it?

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(Mr_Mo @ Feb 25 2006, 12:33 PM)

Ehmmm, no... US laws don't apply in DK. Do you really think retailers would lease something from MS and then sell it?

the end consumer is the one leasing it, the retailer is just the middle man

[PC_Arcade]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Feb 25 2006, 10:56 PM)

the end consumer is the one leasing it, the retailer is just the middle man

As far as I can see that's not the case in the UK either, there's nothing in packaging in either the xbox nor the 360 that suggests I'm "leasing" it, nor did I sign a leasing agreement or have it pointed out to me that I don't own the console(s) at any time.

Where do you get this information from? Because if it IS the case, I'll return my 360 for a refund

[SigmaXIX]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Feb 25 2006, 11:56 PM)

the end consumer is the one leasing it, the retailer is just the middle man

Well, I read that EULA for XBox live, as there was no EULA for the console itself.  Actually, unlike laptop computers, there was no disclaimer that said "If you do not agree to the terms of the enclosed EULA then please return the product."  There was no license agreement when you first boot the console, either.  With that in mind, We own our consoles.

I bought this console...  Therefore, what you are referring to is what I call "Crazy Talk".
MS really doesn't have a right to the property I purchased from them.  Where in the $@*% do you get that $&@* from?

And, if a Modchip is released on the Xbox360, you'll probably have to download the BIOS through usual methods, to keep it *legal*.

I just don't see a modchip being released anytime soon, as much as people are trying or want it.  It'll be like 50 wires and come out 2008 (when the XeXDK is available, Live! Updates stop being included in new games, and a non-patchable flaw is discovered).  Not to say I am not looking forward to the mods, because I certainly am.

[Questioner]

I don't know if it will be a mod chip or not, but xecuter is not usually full of it, there will be a solution to at least play backups out very soon.

[VinnySem]

US satellite TV company DirecTV managed to squash nearly the whole hobbyist smart card programmer market sector without even have to prove that people were using the cards to steal their programming. Now, imagine a company with the resources and market dominance that MS has in the same situation. If they don't want modchips made or sold, and have even a shaky legal footing, they'll have their way.

[krayzie]

Even though the hardware may be your property it's stated in both DMCA and similar European laws that it is not legal to circumvent copy protection with the intention to play illegally obtained code.

And for the poster above...I'm sure companies can update/eliminate or whatever hardware that they are actively connected to like through satelite tv networking or xbox live (or even via gamediscs) but if you take away that factor they cannot ever do anything about it.

[VinnySem]

QUOTE(krayzie @ Feb 28 2006, 01:38 PM)

Even though the hardware may be your property it's stated in both DMCA and similar European laws that it is not legal to circumvent copy protection with the intention to play illegally obtained code.

Exactly my point krayzie. With M$'s strict licensing of the console SDK's, in a cout of law I bet it would be interpreted that any homebrew software is illegal because homebrew developers don't have a license for the SDK. The exception to that is the OpenXDK, Cromwell BIOS, and XboxLinux projects.

QUOTE(krayzie @ Feb 28 2006, 01:38 PM)

And for the poster above...I'm sure companies can update/eliminate or whatever hardware that they are actively connected to like through satelite tv networking or xbox live (or even via gamediscs) but if you take away that factor they cannot ever do anything about it.

Yes, that is very true. That being said, do you think the commerce of these chips would be virtually eliminated by virtue of the paper trail involved in any transaction (i.e. credit card receipts, shipping logs, etc.) I know I wouldn't want to sell or buy such an item if I knew there was a great chance fire and brimstone would be rained down from Redmond. I am just thinking back to several court cases I've read about concerning DirecTV and smart card programming, where they were pressing charges and suing people for owning smart card programmers that had never even been DirecTV subscribers, much the same way the RIAA is suing people that have been deceased for 60 years for downloading music from the afterlife.

Look, I'm not agreeing with these companies' practices, I'm just thinking aloud. Believe me I would love to see a multithreaded "XB360MC". Imagine having 2 detachable hard drives and a switchable chip; turn the chip off and use one drive for playing on Live!, switch the chip on and use the other drive for XB360MC or other alternate dashboards.

[krayzie]

If the hardware itself contains no illegal code it will be close to impossible for any company to track down anything. Just like current xbox modchips. And if they do somehow decide to prevent the sales of the chips the shops will just move to countries with more suitable laws or other more underground market solutions.

[Jstraw]

Unless I try to access the internet with illegal code, what happens in my home is shure as hell going to stay that way?  I do have rights?  I hope?? If I want to turn my 360 into a satellite thats what I'm gonna do, right?  All the question marks represent my ignorance to my freedoms.  I'm still free If I live in the USA....right?  Uh oh...This cat has just gone dark.

[Rodstorm]

Theres one point here I think everyone missed, whether we get a modchip or a boot disc in time, is the cost of original games.

I dont know about you guys but I cant afford $100-$110 AUD everytime a new game comes out that I want.
If the software companies made games cheaper we'd all buy them and not pirate them.

Then you get the other side, the weaker side, saying they charge so much to make up for the revenue they lose from software being pirated which I think is more of an excuse than a reason.

I'd like to see whatever comes our way not be playable on Live as that is an unfair advantage but while games are expensive we will always go for the cheaper alternative.....pirating.

It has nothing to do with ripping developers off its just purely a consumer cost thing.

[bowser22]

Exactly Rodstorm,lots of people here cant just run out and buy a game right away,if they sold the games cheaper they would probably make the same profit,saying 2 in 4 people will buy their 70$ games but if you lower the price to say 30$ more than 4 in 4 people will buy them making just as much profit

[bdf24]

QUOTE(bowser22 @ Mar 4 2006, 07:39 AM)

Exactly Rodstorm,lots of people here cant just run out and buy a game right away,if they sold the games cheaper they would probably make the same profit,saying 2 in 4 people will buy their 70$ games but if you lower the price to say 30$ more than 4 in 4 people will buy them making just as much profit

QUOTE(Rodstorm @ Mar 4 2006, 06:46 AM)

Theres one point here I think everyone missed, whether we get a modchip or a boot disc in time, is the cost of original games.

I dont know about you guys but I cant afford $100-$110 AUD everytime a new game comes out that I want.
If the software companies made games cheaper we'd all buy them and not pirate them.

Then you get the other side, the weaker side, saying they charge so much to make up for the revenue they lose from software being pirated which I think is more of an excuse than a reason.

I'd like to see whatever comes our way not be playable on Live as that is an unfair advantage but while games are expensive we will always go for the cheaper alternative.....pirating.

It has nothing to do with ripping developers off its just purely a consumer cost thing.

I'm sorry but your way of thinking is WRONG! Regardless of whether or not you believe they charge too much for a game is pointless. Pirating is illegal no matter how you look at it. Not everyone does it. If you can't afford a game don't buy it. Save up for it. Maybe rent it. I don't really see a legitimate argument in blaming the software companies for pirating. They charge what they charge. And steeling is steeling no matter how you look at it. If you were selling a car and I thought you were charging too much would you care if I just stole it from you instead? Probably not!
I don't mean to be a prude but the whole trying to justify piracy thing is retarded! You can't justify it! And I guess if you gotta do it just shut up about it and quit posting in public forums about it. Something’s are better left to your self!

[Cookiesrus]

QUOTE(krayzie @ Feb 28 2006, 06:38 PM)

Even though the hardware may be your property it's stated in both DMCA and similar European laws that it is not legal to circumvent copy protection with the intention to play illegally obtained code.

And for the poster above...I'm sure companies can update/eliminate or whatever hardware that they are actively connected to like through satelite tv networking or xbox live (or even via gamediscs) but if you take away that factor they cannot ever do anything about it.

Well call me dumb, but i live in the UK and have smoked pot for years (which is illegal), as of yet the gestapo havent burst in and made me put out my spliff or arrested me.  I even have a couple of illegal backups for xbox 1 (shock, horror!).  Again im still here typing this.

I guess what im trying to say is "fuck the law" when a chip comes i WILL buy it regardless of the legal ramifications that may or may not follow.  
So will a good portion of fellow 360 users!

[VinnySem]

QUOTE(Cookiesrus @ Mar 4 2006, 12:45 PM)

Well call me dumb, but i live in the UK and have smoked pot for years (which is illegal), as of yet the gestapo havent burst in and made me put out my spliff or arrested me.

I bet if your cronic cut into the commerce of a multi-billion dollar international company they'd bust down your door and give you the latex finger.