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[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(damam @ May 5 2006, 02:13 PM)

@jha'dhur
If the paki's have the bomb, doesnt it also follow that the muslims have the bomb?  Or are they not muslim enough because they wont give the technology over to Al Quaeda?

Actually the statement that I posted is from a Pakistani General that leans toward Taliban ideology.

In this documentary, it suggest a number of muslim countries are covertly developing nuclear weapons programs.

I do believe that Al Qeada has weapons grade/dirty bomb materials. There are a number of missing radioactive sources scattered across the former soviet union.

In fact you wouldnt believe the number of your tax dollars that are earmarked for securing nuclear materials in former soviet countries, or scientists for that matter.

The only consistency amongst the war hawks of the current administration is that if you have nuclear weapon we will not bither you no matter how much oil you have.

It would not be very difficult to smuggle and detonate a nuclear device inside the continental US.

In fact I believe we both will live to see this event transpire.  

[Arvarden]

I think you missed one key point in his post.....
































Dirty Bomb.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 03:27 PM)

A couple of problems with this scenario.....
It violates the rules of lesser Jihad....and while some groups seem to be completely ignoring the teachings of the Prophet...I doubt a group powerful enough to get ahold of a small nuclear device will be so haphazard.

You sure are stuck on these rules of jihad that no one follows, Jihad  is a war chant not some biblical decree
muslims have declared jihad on everyone from Bush Sr to Balky.

BTW, for what reason then does a small group aquire a nuclear device?

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 03:27 PM)

It also would have to come from a government known to possess nuclear capabilities.
Right now the Iranians fund terrorism somewhat secretively...
They dont have a monthly spending report on terrorism.
If they gave nuclear weapons to a terrorist....then they know they would be systematically wiped off the face of the earth.  I believe there is a long standing tradition that if you start using nukes...everyone uses nukes on you.....

Secretly, they just said that if the are invaded they will send suicide bombers to Isreal, they even have adds in papers to find matyrs. Explosives in more elaborate roadside bombs have been traced to Iran.

It is no secret they have ties to Iraqi insurgency.

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 03:27 PM)

It also would have to come from a government known to possess nuclear capabilities.
Right now the Iranians fund terrorism somewhat secretively...
They dont have a monthly spending report on terrorism.
If they gave nuclear weapons to a terrorist....then they know they would be systematically wiped off the face of the earth.  I believe there is a long standing tradition that if you start using nukes...everyone uses nukes on you.....

You mean like the nukes we gave to Israel, or the nukes that were deployed in Turkey that precipitated the russian deployment of nukes in Cuba.

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 03:27 PM)

So...if Iran gave nuclear weapons to a terrorist group....
We would suddenly have several things occur.
Iran would be denounced by most of the Muslim world
Iran would have clearly demonstrated its evil nature
Iran would be systematically destroyed...

Funny since the muslims feel it as a religous decree to obtain nuclear weapons to counter US/Israeli deployments.  You forget the Pakistani Kahn that founded Paki nuclear weapons program, he was on a personal crusade selling nuclear technology to any arab nation that would listen.  

The only dummy that didnt sign on was Saddam. The great Hitler as your presisdent calls him.

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 6 2006, 03:27 PM)

I am fairly confident that we will not see a nuclear blast in the US....
Im mostly confident that we will not see an atomic blast in the US....

Dude you could not find your arse in a handicap bathroom stall.  

Air travel isnt safer nor are ports secure, instead of dirty arabs running port dirty italians are.

The vastly ungaurded canadian border.

Maybe the average Al-Qeada isnt smarter than the average drug smuggling Canuck, Maybe not.

[Arvarden]

Don't you mean bible=Koran?  The Muslim faith is a spin off of Christianity.  Anyway if we were fighting a  jihad we would be fighting the majority of Muslims but as Puck pointed out we are not.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE

George Bush making the world a better place for Americans.

LOL..

[puckSR]

QUOTE

Last I checked Bin Laden wasnt a religous figure (Iman) so technically he cant declare Jihad.

Nope....but he can fight a jihad....
And he is a devoutly religious individual.....
So I think he is going to consider the restraints of his religion when he acts

QUOTE

I honestly dont believe that moron Massouia knows what "jihad" is so why should I believe some kid
named Geroge from Tx.

You shouldnt...you should research the term yourself....
Just try to avoid the blatantly racist/anti-Islam sources when you do look it up....

QUOTE

Besides you are just arguing (as usual) word definitions (Semantics).

Is this your blanket excuse anytime you make a false statement?
That while I am "technically" right...it doesnt matter because im just arguing semantics?

If you believe a Jihad is a holy war...your demonstrating a clear misunderstanding of another major religion and another culture.....
You seem to be proud of your ignorance...which is even more disturbing...

QUOTE

If you are silly enough to take you prissy english arse over there for BUSH you deserve to get scalped in
one of those Taliban music videos.

Are you drunk?
Were you not the one advocating military service?

[_iffy]

You guys are naive to think there isn't (a) nuke(s) here already. Just waiting.

Muslim extreamists bend the rules of jihad. They don't follow the rules, as they were originally intended.

Osoma can declare a jihad, because he is a muslim. He doesn't have to be a religious figure.
He can use a dirty bomb, or a nuke, because he is an extreamist and bends the rules of jihad.

Quoting, or listing rules of jihad is irrelevant. It doesn't apply to muslim extreamists.
"The war on terror" isn't against muslim terrorists, it's against muslim extreamist terrorists. They follow different rules. If they follow any at all. Again it's naive to think they follow any at all.

However, killing inocent women and children, would be an action that will loose supporters. That's why they don't attack them.

[damam]

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 7 2006, 10:02 AM)

Christians who bomb abortion clinics are Christian extremists....
They are bending the rules and teachings of christianity

No matter how badly they are twisting their religious faith, they still will not arbitrarily start violating their faith.
Christian extremists are not going to start bombing Jeff's house...just because they dont like Jeff.....

there is a difference though in how the general christian population reacts towards a clinic bombing and how the muslim world has reacted too Osama.  Clinic bombers got immediate and complete condemnation from all the major christian sects.  In contrast, that has not happened to osama.  At best he has been more or less ingnored and at worst he is heralded as hero.  It seems that the rare clerics whome do speak out (which to my knowledge only happened twice and was anything but immediate and complete ) are silenced rather quickly.

Can Osama declare a Jihad?  I dont know but he can issue fatwahs and has:
feb 1998 fatwah was issued by him ordering all muslims to kill Americans (and Jews) everywhere and declared war on America.  In an interview shown on frontline (PBS), the interviewer asked if he meant only military targets, men, americans in Saudi Arabia, (ie not women and children).  His answer was a definite no.  That the fatwah he ordered was to kill all  americans.
FrontLine:  Hunting Bin Laden

QUOTE(osama)

We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says

in other interviews he has promised a jewish genocide.
He also justifies killing innocent bystanders in the name of allah that are not a part of the fatwah like what happened in tanzania where the majority of the people that died were innocent muslim bystanders.

and he does this with an implied blessing through massive wide spread donations and silence from the vast majority of the clerics.

[_iffy]

QUOTE(puckSR speaking to me)

Every muslim fights a jihad on a daily basis.....
However, in this case your describing a lesser jihad, and general tradition dictates that only political or religious authority can start a war-like action.....
The misunderstanding is over what Jihad is...
Jihad is struggle to maintain one's faith...it can be internal or external....but it is a struggle for faith.
A jihad can become a war, if your being opressed or invaded by another culture.....but that is not the typical usage for jihad.
Can anyone "Declare" war? No...and that is true for all society...
Remember though...jihad is not "holy war"....jihad is a term to describe one's struggle for belief in God.

You know... I told you that earlier in this thread.

QUOTE(puckSR)

Ok...but once again....this is where the misunderstanding comes in....
Any muslim who condones Bin Laden's call to jihad and his fatwahs against Americans is obligated by his religious convictions to immediately take arms up against those people and attack without regard for personal safety.....

in the words of Jha'...
BULLSHIT!


Nowhere in the muslim faith, does it say you have to kill, or attack for any reason. Muslims are still some of the most peacefull, hateless, non-violent, people in the world.


Bin'ny is not a muslim. He says he is...but he isn't

[_iffy]

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 7 2006, 11:18 PM)

What did you tell me earlier?

<link>

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 7 2006, 11:18 PM)

You must defend your faith....
it does say that....
I agree...Islam is a very peaceful religion....however Islam does advocate defending the faith.....

not with violence!!!

[Arvarden]

You can not use violence to defend Islam, you can use violence if you know your life is in danger.  

Alot of Muslims don't see Osama and his brothers as a fellow Muslims infact alot Muslims don't believe Osama is the head of al qaeda.  Some would even suggest that Osama is working on behalf of the US secret service.

 

Anyway I'd love to see these so called translations that give the go ahead for peace loving Muslims to wage war to defend there faith.  I'd like you to point out where it states in the Koran that blowing yourself up with civilians of all age's and gender is the holy thing to do.  Before you answer did Mohammed blow himself up for his faith?

[throwingks]

QUOTE

The letter is the first time that an Iranian president has written to his U.S. counterpart since 1979, when the two countries broke off relations after Iranian militants stormed the U.S. Embassy and held the occupants hostage for more than a year.

QUOTE

Elham said Monday that Iranians had endured sanctions before. "We're not concerned" about the prospect of U.N. sanctions, he added.

[_iffy]

QUOTE(puckSR @ May 8 2006, 12:14 PM)

"God decrees: Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. God does not love transgressors (2:190)"

Fight like god puck... Terrorist aren't allowed to use ak-47's.
They have to fight like god would.

They have to use locusts.

[damam]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ May 8 2006, 01:03 AM)

Alot of Muslims don't see Osama and his brothers as a fellow Muslims infact alot Muslims don't believe Osama is the head of al qaeda.  Some would even suggest that Osama is working on behalf of the US secret service.

 

 I read he was working for the jews and had undergone extreme plastic surgery to make him look muslim.

wasnt it Xboxabuser who claimed that al quaeda was CIA black ops?  Oh how i miss his conspiracy theories.

[puckSR]

well....if osama bin laden is a "plant"....they did either a great job or a bad job
Bin Laden is a prominant Saudi family...and so they must be in on the conspiracy....
Also...Osama used to work for the CIA...thats documented...so apparently they cant cover their tracks very well..