xboxscene.org forums

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7

Author Topic: Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?  (Read 1505 times)

suppository

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2006, 12:00:00 AM »

I bought it at future shop as they had a deal where it comes with the remote, King Kong the hddvd movie and King Kong the game.Then I went across the road and got $18 trade in credit for the game.Good deal I say!
Logged

Zaxx

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2006, 05:13:00 AM »

How can you ask a question that's already been answered? And not by some guys oppinion, but by FACTS. Blue Ray is already the CLEAR winner of the two formats. Who wants a HD-DVD that can't output 1080p signal? No.. I don't bother the HD-DVD format... it will be gone before the Blue Ray takes the throne smile.gif

And for you guys who say not everybody will have a HD-TV... it's just a matter of time. And the the people who have  so clearly been fooled into buying just a 720p/1080i TV... it's just sad really, that the market can trick everyone so easy.

Note: From Sweden, so sorry for any spelling probs.
Logged

Zoopster

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2006, 07:12:00 AM »

Yes I got the HD DVD player. There's no way to know which format will "win", since there is a shortage of BOTH types of players right now. I suspect that the two formats will eventually co-exist next to each other the same way that DVD-R and DVD+R do now. Universal players will be released that play both formats (a couple of companies have already developed decoder chips that support both), and the prices of the hardware will eventually come down.

For right now though, $200 is as cheap as you can get for HD movie viewing, and that makes the Microsoft player a good purchase to get you by. Some of you may be concerned by the fact that the 360 doesn't have HDMI, but I wouldn't be. The movie studios are not going to enable Image Constraint Token on any discs for awhile yet, not until the players are in wide availability and HDTV's are common in households. By then, the next XBox will probably be out already. So relax.
Logged

Zoopster

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2006, 08:43:00 AM »

I see a lot a guessing and speculation about the advantages/disadvantages of the two formats in here. I work on development tools for HD DVD production (another division in my company works on the Blu-Ray side), so maybe it would be best if someone who knows what's going on "clears the air" a bit...

1. Video quality is better on HD DVD/Blu-Ray.
As far as I have observed, that is false. Both formats use the same 3 video codecs (AVC H.264, MPEG2-HD, and VC-1). Both formats also support the same audio codecs (Dolby Digital (AC3), Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, and DTS-HD). Both formats put a cap on the data rate of the disc during single speed movie playback, at around 29.4 Mbps. If a studio (like Warner Bros) releases a movie on both formats, it's a sure bet they used the same source video when encoding for both formats. There is no discernible difference in picture or audio quality.

2. Blu-Ray is superior technology to HD DVD.
Spec-wise, Blu-Ray media can hold more data than HD DVD can (about 25 GB for a single layer release, vs about 15 GB for HD DVD). But Blu-Ray has a couple of significant disadvantages. One, it's new and largely untried technology. The physical disc size may be the same as standard DVD, but everything else about it is significantly diifferent. In contrast, HD DVD has many similarities to existing DVD tech, and authors have had little trouble adapting their methods and equipment for it. Two, Blu-Ray is alot more expensive and time-consuming to produce, at least for now. The tools for HD DVD production are more robust at the moment.

3. Movies look better on Blu-Ray than HD DVD because the discs hold more.
In actuality, that will only have the biggest effect in the short term. As stated above, the single speed data rate is 29.4 Mbps for both formats (which includes all video and audio streams). That puts the file size of a standard 120 minute movie at around 25 GB if max bandwidth is used throughout (unlikely, since most production discs use variable bitrate encoding, not constant bitrate). Both formats can already handle content that size.

Presently, most hi-def releases currently on both formats use MPEG2-HD encoding, which has the worst image quality of the 3 supported codecs. As a result, authors have to encode at pretty much the max bitrate all the time, to compensate for the inadequacies of the standard. However, usage of MPEG2 will soon start to decline.

Some HD DVD releases are now using Microsoft's VC-1 standard, which achieves much better compression while still retaining image quality. As a result, movie file sizes are smaller, well within the limits of both formats. Microsoft has been aggressively developing and perfecting the VC-1 standard, and you can expect many more HD DVD releases to start using it in the near term. To my knowledge there are no Blu-Ray releases that use it, for political reasons as much as anything else, even though it is supported.

But everyone is really waiting for H.264 AVC to take off (right now there are both encoding and decoding problems preventing its widespread use). That standard achieves the best compression of all, and the image quality is very, very good (much better and more lifelike than MPEG2, you'll see). So while an AVC presentation can be encoded to use the maximum amount of disc space, it's very unlikely an author will do this. The image quality is THAT good, and increasing the avg bitrate would not improve it appreciably. So therefore the amount of disc space used by the main feature will drop again, and the size advantage that BD has over HD DVD will be reduced still further.

Where Blu-Ray will have the biggest advantage is in video-based extras, which HD DVD can compensate for by simply including a second disc. But while both formats contain advanced interactivity features (specialized menus, scene selection, etc), the methods used are quite different. HD DVD uses iHD, which is largely a markup-based language similar to XML. Full interactive programming can be achieved by a programmer skilled in markup languages like XML, JavaScript, VBScript, etc, and the files themselves (being text-based) are pretty small. Blu-Ray on the other hand relies on BD-J, which is a Java-based language that requires a compiler to generate the binary files (these tend to be a bit bigger).

4. More studios support the Blu-Ray format. More studios means more movies.
Not necessarily. The main signatories for Blu-Ray are:
a. Twentieth Century Fox
b. Buena Vista (Disney, Touchstone, et al)
c. Sony
d. Warner Bros (recently joined)
e. Paramount Pictures (recently joined)

The main supporters of HD DVD are:
a. Warner Bros (and by affiliation, New Line as well)
b. Universal
c. Paramount Pictures
d. Lion's Gate

There are a lot of studios on the fence still, but lets start with these. Currently, Warner Bros owns almost 30% of the current-generation DVD market. That's right, ONE studio has about a third of all DVD sales. While they have released some Blu-Ray titles, the majority of their releases are on HD DVD right now. Universal owns almost 10% of the DVD market themselves. They they are only releasing titles on HD DVD at the moment.

Conversely, studios like Twentieth Century Fox have more bona fide system sellers in their catalog (Star Wars, anyone?), even though they don't sell nearly as many DVD's as Warner does.

So anyway, stop bickering. It's still way too early in the game. In fact the game hasn't even started yet. My advice is to watch the next 12 months carefully, because at least 2 things will happen:

a. The manufacturing problems plaguing HD DVD and Blu-Ray hardware will be sorted out, and more units will become available. It's hard to predict who will win a format war when neither side has many troops in the field yet. In the next year, more players will be out, prices will fall, and more movies will be available. Then we will see.
b. The prices on HDTV's will also fall sharply. As of a week or two ago, a major manufacturer announced that they were now able to produce 58" LCD panels with an acceptable QC failure rate. That means that the prices on smaller screen LCD panels will start to fall steeply (much of the high cost of very large screen displays is due to high failure rates during manufacturing). You should be able to get an LCD television of 46-50" for less than $2000 in the coming year. This downward price trend will put pressure on plasma TV makers to cut their prices as well.

Once more players are out, and more people have HDTV's in their homes, we will finally get the chance to see what direction the format war will go. Until then, it can't be predicted so don't even try. Sorry for the length of the post. smile.gif
Logged

sillykaos

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2006, 01:51:00 PM »

i have ps3 and 360 hd player.  Playing both on sony 50" sxrd.  Both look great.  Cant tell difference besides hdmi and coponent cables being the issue.
Logged

psychoace

  • Archived User
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2006, 05:33:00 PM »

QUOTE(Zoopster @ Nov 25 2006, 04:50 PM) View Post

I see a lot a guessing and speculation about the advantages/disadvantages of the two formats in here. I work on development tools for HD DVD production (another division in my company works on the Blu-Ray side), so maybe it would be best if someone who knows what's going on "clears the air" a bit...

1. Video quality is better on HD DVD/Blu-Ray.
As far as I have observed, that is false. Both formats use the same 3 video codecs (AVC H.264, MPEG2-HD, and VC-1). Both formats also support the same audio codecs (Dolby Digital (AC3), Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, and DTS-HD). Both formats put a cap on the data rate of the disc during single speed movie playback, at around 29.4 Mbps. If a studio (like Warner Bros) releases a movie on both formats, it's a sure bet they used the same source video when encoding for both formats. There is no discernible difference in picture or audio quality.

2. Blu-Ray is superior technology to HD DVD.
Spec-wise, Blu-Ray media can hold more data than HD DVD can (about 25 GB for a single layer release, vs about 15 GB for HD DVD). But Blu-Ray has a couple of significant disadvantages. One, it's new and largely untried technology. The physical disc size may be the same as standard DVD, but everything else about it is significantly diifferent. In contrast, HD DVD has many similarities to existing DVD tech, and authors have had little trouble adapting their methods and equipment for it. Two, Blu-Ray is alot more expensive and time-consuming to produce, at least for now. The tools for HD DVD production are more robust at the moment.

3. Movies look better on Blu-Ray than HD DVD because the discs hold more.
In actuality, that will only have the biggest effect in the short term. As stated above, the single speed data rate is 29.4 Mbps for both formats (which includes all video and audio streams). That puts the file size of a standard 120 minute movie at around 25 GB if max bandwidth is used throughout (unlikely, since most production discs use variable bitrate encoding, not constant bitrate). Both formats can already handle content that size.

Presently, most hi-def releases currently on both formats use MPEG2-HD encoding, which has the worst image quality of the 3 supported codecs. As a result, authors have to encode at pretty much the max bitrate all the time, to compensate for the inadequacies of the standard. However, usage of MPEG2 will soon start to decline.

Some HD DVD releases are now using Microsoft's VC-1 standard, which achieves much better compression while still retaining image quality. As a result, movie file sizes are smaller, well within the limits of both formats. Microsoft has been aggressively developing and perfecting the VC-1 standard, and you can expect many more HD DVD releases to start using it in the near term. To my knowledge there are no Blu-Ray releases that use it, for political reasons as much as anything else, even though it is supported.

But everyone is really waiting for H.264 AVC to take off (right now there are both encoding and decoding problems preventing its widespread use). That standard achieves the best compression of all, and the image quality is very, very good (much better and more lifelike than MPEG2, you'll see). So while an AVC presentation can be encoded to use the maximum amount of disc space, it's very unlikely an author will do this. The image quality is THAT good, and increasing the avg bitrate would not improve it appreciably. So therefore the amount of disc space used by the main feature will drop again, and the size advantage that BD has over HD DVD will be reduced still further.

Where Blu-Ray will have the biggest advantage is in video-based extras, which HD DVD can compensate for by simply including a second disc. But while both formats contain advanced interactivity features (specialized menus, scene selection, etc), the methods used are quite different. HD DVD uses iHD, which is largely a markup-based language similar to XML. Full interactive programming can be achieved by a programmer skilled in markup languages like XML, JavaScript, VBScript, etc, and the files themselves (being text-based) are pretty small. Blu-Ray on the other hand relies on BD-J, which is a Java-based language that requires a compiler to generate the binary files (these tend to be a bit bigger).

4. More studios support the Blu-Ray format. More studios means more movies.
Not necessarily. The main signatories for Blu-Ray are:
a. Twentieth Century Fox
b. Buena Vista (Disney, Touchstone, et al)
c. Sony
d. Warner Bros (recently joined)
e. Paramount Pictures (recently joined)

The main supporters of HD DVD are:
a. Warner Bros (and by affiliation, New Line as well)
b. Universal
c. Paramount Pictures
d. Lion's Gate

There are a lot of studios on the fence still, but lets start with these. Currently, Warner Bros owns almost 30% of the current-generation DVD market. That's right, ONE studio has about a third of all DVD sales. While they have released some Blu-Ray titles, the majority of their releases are on HD DVD right now. Universal owns almost 10% of the DVD market themselves. They they are only releasing titles on HD DVD at the moment.

Conversely, studios like Twentieth Century Fox have more bona fide system sellers in their catalog (Star Wars, anyone?), even though they don't sell nearly as many DVD's as Warner does.

So anyway, stop bickering. It's still way too early in the game. In fact the game hasn't even started yet. My advice is to watch the next 12 months carefully, because at least 2 things will happen:

a. The manufacturing problems plaguing HD DVD and Blu-Ray hardware will be sorted out, and more units will become available. It's hard to predict who will win a format war when neither side has many troops in the field yet. In the next year, more players will be out, prices will fall, and more movies will be available. Then we will see.
b. The prices on HDTV's will also fall sharply. As of a week or two ago, a major manufacturer announced that they were now able to produce 58" LCD panels with an acceptable QC failure rate. That means that the prices on smaller screen LCD panels will start to fall steeply (much of the high cost of very large screen displays is due to high failure rates during manufacturing). You should be able to get an LCD television of 46-50" for less than $2000 in the coming year. This downward price trend will put pressure on plasma TV makers to cut their prices as well.

Once more players are out, and more people have HDTV's in their homes, we will finally get the chance to see what direction the format war will go. Until then, it can't be predicted so don't even try. Sorry for the length of the post. smile.gif


Actually I looked and your list states Lion Gates is HD-DVD but it's actually Blu Ray hugger. I wish it was HD-DVD though cause they are going to release Resaviour Dogs for Blu ray and Behind Enemy Lines. It sucks balls that there is such a crappy war. Just give me my movies damnit. Then Sony owns Fifth Element , Kung Fu Hustle, Lord of War, Talladega nights and Underworld so I really want Blu Ray but I have an xbox 360 so 700 bucks is just out of the question right now. I will probably end up owning a lot of movies in both formats by the time this is all blown over.
Logged

sp00ge

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2006, 08:44:00 PM »

I'm still confused over the HDMI issue...  Does it come with one?  If not, is the picture still analog?
Logged

psychoace

  • Archived User
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2006, 10:11:00 PM »

QUOTE(sp00ge @ Nov 26 2006, 04:51 AM) View Post

I'm still confused over the HDMI issue...  Does it come with one?  If not, is the picture still analog?

No HDMI so yes it's only analog either through Component or VGA although the difference in quality is at most minor.

QUOTE(ILLusions0fGrander @ Nov 24 2006, 08:56 PM) View Post

it would have either been a wii or a HD-DVD player.

im not ready to restart my collection when there hasnt been a really good movie in years.


I still don't see how people think they have to restart their collection just because it's a new format. I understand if it was like going from vhs tapes to dvd's but this is totally different you can still play dvd's on an HD-Dvd player. Vhs can't be played on dvd players so why would you need to restart your collection? Only buy new stuff in HD or movies you think you would enjoy better at such an extreme quality. It's not like anyone is pointing a gun to your head and telling you that in order to be a good little boy/girl you must buy all the movies you have on dvd in HD-dvd/BluRay.
Logged

deadparrot

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1252
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2006, 09:13:00 AM »

Not until I can get a dual-format drive, or one format is completely eliminated.
Logged

Sgt_Yates

  • Recovered User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2006, 11:50:00 AM »

Bought mine for a couple reasons. You cannot get a better deal on an HD-DVD drive. If I want Blue-Ray and HD-DVD movies, I can always buy a Blu-Ray player (preferably not a PS3). If you do not have an HD TV, do not waste your time, unless you have a kick but computer monitor that you watch a lot of movies on. Then It would be worth it. I'm wating to see a mod where someone encases theres. The Blu-Ray and HD-DVD war will not die out. Look at DVD-R and DVD+R. Both alive and well. Look at Beta and VHS...oh wait... laugh.gif
So you must choose, at least initially. Until they make an affordable multi-format reader (not cheap or available yet).  I still wish they could would allow gameplay from the drive. Then people could use it as a replacement...

I love mine, and if you havent watched a movie in HD 1080i or 1080p, wait to comment...its pretty smooth.
Logged

deadparrot

  • Archived User
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1252
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2006, 12:18:00 PM »

You can hardly call DVD+/-R a war.  All decent burners/players support them both.
Logged

oolatin79

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2006, 08:07:00 PM »

I'm waiting to find a good deal.......but I probably will just end up buying one before the end of the year.  Oh and if you have a Netflix membership, they've been carrying HD movies for a while now....so that's a definite plus.
Logged

notguiltystyle

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2006, 07:33:00 AM »

I would buy one now if I could find one! Does anyone know where you can find one of the these drives on the 1 Dec 2006 (in the UK)? All the websites are sold out!
Logged

Zoopster

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2006, 11:51:00 AM »

QUOTE(deadparrot @ Nov 26 2006, 11:25 AM) View Post

You can hardly call DVD+/-R a war.  All decent burners/players support them both.

Now they do. But when they first showed up on the market a few years back, you had to choose one or the other because there was no such thing as a burner/player that supported both. Kinda like Blu-Ray vs HD DVD now.
Logged

bhazard

  • Archived User
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Did You Buy The Xbox360 Hd-dvd Addon?
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2006, 01:24:00 PM »

QUOTE(rob61 @ Nov 27 2006, 02:25 PM) View Post

No way... even though I own an XBox 360, Blue Ray is the CLEAR WINNER when it comes to hig rez movies! 1080P is way better than 720P plain and simple.


The xbox360 and hd-dvd add-on both do 1080p just fine.  As of now, component will display 1080i, and vga will do 1080p for movies.

 
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7