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[Exist2Resist]

Correct me if I'm wrong but running a linux distro on a PS3 woul actually aid piracy, oh and that virus free comment, don't worry i'll make sure i write a couple of viruses for the PS3 linux distro. Ha Ha Ha, just to see how sony handles it.

[calderra]

QUOTE(Exist2Resist @ Oct 17 2006, 12:12 PM)

Correct me if I'm wrong but running a linux distro on a PS3 woul actually aid piracy, oh and that virus free comment, don't worry i'll make sure i write a couple of viruses for the PS3 linux distro. Ha Ha Ha, just to see how sony handles it.

Something NOBODY will listen to: Linux users make up (less than 10%?) of the home PC market, and the vast majority of those users are professionals who know their security.

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU BOTHER WRITING VIRUSES FOR THAT!?
It's just a stupid target to aim for. Too few users to be worth going after, and they're all (regardless of OS) trined in countermeasures. You don't shoot for that.

If a million PS3 owners get Linux, the vast majority of which are idiots who have no idea what the software really does but who asked mommy to get it, then it will become a massively smart target. Credit card numbers, usage information... ripe for the picking, and nobody's smart enough to stop it.

And yes, this makes piracy on the PS3 a !!!MASSIVE!!! issue.
-Sony's already said the hard drive should be a standard one you could easily swap out with your PC drive. Copy anything to the PS3 hard drive, and it can hit the internet in moments.
-Sony's also said the BluRay drive can be ripped out and used normally. Which means its copy protection probably isnt' massive. Couple that with Linux, copy a gme to the hard drive, then put that hard drive in a PC. Voila!
-Couple that with e-distribution, you don't even need to rip game discs! Just download an eDistribution copy to the HD, Linux your way to an FTP, and you have free downloadable games online!

Xbox 360 has been out almost a full year, and the extent of available modding is still limited to pirated games because the older DVD drives in some units were easily hackable. Other than that, nothing has moved. Contrast that with Xbox, which was (literally) running SNES emulators before launch ever happened.

Will PS3 be as secure as 360? Oh hell no. Sony went backwards from the Microsoft model, if anything.

[grim_d]

deftech + programming + PS3 linux = PS3 massacre.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 17 2006, 12:59 AM)

The ps2 linux didn't require any modding either

There was no modding required. "Official Distro" means it was an official disc pressed by Sony themselves.

QUOTE(kizmet @ Oct 17 2006, 01:06 AM)

ps2 linux sucked cause of the weak 32MB of the ps2, now the ps3 might be able to do some interesting things if they dont close it up like the ps2... myth would have to rewritten to support the cell processor i believe.

If that's why PS2 Linux sucked then PS3 Linux will suck for the same reasons, 256MB is nothing for today's applications (even Linux applications) the extra 256 for video specific tasks is great for games but it's worthless for Linux.

QUOTE(silentbob343 @ Oct 17 2006, 03:21 AM)

lol that is a good question.  How was the PS2 linux community, any media center type front ends?  Might be interesting to play around with.

From what I saw the PS2 Linux community was pretty apathetic. I saw the occasional college project but for the most part people didn't care.

Most people could care less about linux... and most linux users could care less about running it on hardware not designed for general PC tasks. I't not a niche market... it's a next-to-non-existant market that is overwhelmingly vocal on the internet.

QUOTE(silentbob343 @ Oct 17 2006, 03:21 AM)

You will also have media center type capabilites via the stock XMB GUI just like on the PSP if you don't want to mess with a Linux UI.  I'm hopeful somebody will make a front end ala XBMC.

There are Linux media apps but nothing like XBMC, or XP MCE, basically they're just media players that still require a keyboard and mouse interface. Linux is a Full Fledged OS so any media player will be an application that runs on top of that.

Myth TV is the closet Linux based Media Center you've got but IIRC it's a whole Linux distro in itself. meaning that you wont be running it unless it is officially released and blessed by Sony.

QUOTE(Exist2Resist @ Oct 17 2006, 07:12 AM)

Correct me if I'm wrong but running a linux distro on a PS3 woul actually aid piracy, oh and that virus free comment, don't worry i'll make sure i write a couple of viruses for the PS3 linux distro. Ha Ha Ha, just to see how sony handles it.

No running Linux on a PS3 would not in any way shape or form aid piracy... NOT AT ALL.

The distro's are officially licensed by Sony, for all intents and purposes the disc is just as locked down as any game. Chances are you'll be able to burn the disc to CD but it will still be signed meaning you wont be able to modify the data.

When The console runs Linux it can't run it's own OS meaning that it also can't run games... you have about as much chance of playing a PS3 game through PS3 Linux as you do playing a PS3 game on a PC running Linuix...

Linux on the PS2 did not allow for piracy either, In reality Linux on the Xbox didn't allow for piracy either.

Linux requires 1 of 2 things to run, ether:
1. An open platform that would allow it to run unsigned Linux code or
2. A official licensed disc that would work with the consoles security.

On a PC the hardware is open, Linux can run.
On the PS2 Sony licensed a disc, so Linux was bound to the security as much as any game was
On the Xbox MS refused to allow Linux so the first hacked the console to make it an open platform, THEN ran Linux
On the PS3 Sony is licensing a disc, so Linux will be bound to the security as much as any game is.

Linux on the PS3 is no different then Linux on a PC.. you wont run PS3 games through it, and for most people Linux apps aren't really worth much... Not to mention you'll most likely need a keyboard and mouse to use it.

--------

Imagine this... For all intents and purposes, it would be like owning a PS3... a video game console, and then you can shut the console off, and when you turn it back on it's a Linux PC instead of a PS3... THAT is how console Linux works.

[Pheidias]

First I don't understand how my comment about ps2 linux didn't requiere a modded ps2, in response to henmills misconception, could possibly be a misconception of linux and then you say the exact same thing I did? did You quote the wrong guy or something Twisted?

And are you saying that making a awesome mediacenter with the distro won't be possible? I think that will be one of the first things to come of it imo.

[epsilon72]

This may be a long shot, but is there any chance we'll see emulators, for instance, being able to run on this?

It's kinda depressing that it will run off of a disc instead of the hard drive...

[kizmet]

QUOTE(epsilon72 @ Oct 17 2006, 10:39 AM)

This may be a long shot, but is there any chance we'll see emulators, for instance, being able to run on this?

It's kinda depressing that it will run off of a disc instead of the hard drive...

dont see why not, im pretty sure its why sega is not completly on board with it own virtual console. looks like sony may be going full swing this time

QUOTE

Under basic agreement with SCEI, Terra Soft was granted a unique opportunity
to develop and bring to market a complete Linux OS for the Sony PLAYSTATION
3. In development of Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, Terra Soft integrated and
enhanced code from Barcelona Supercomputing Center, Sony Group, and Fedora in
order to offer the following:
- kernel 2.6.16
- gcc 3.4.4 and glibc 2.4
- Cell SDK 1.1
- OpenOffice.org 2.0.2
- FireFox 1.5.0 and Thunderbird 1.5.0
- Nautilus 2.1.4
... and a suite of Personal Accessories, Development Tools; Sound & Video,
Internet, and Networking applications.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Pheidias @ Oct 17 2006, 10:58 AM)

First I don't understand how my comment about ps2 linux didn't requiere a modded ps2, in response to henmills misconception, could possibly be a misconception of linux and then you say the exact same thing I did? did You quote the wrong guy or something Twisted?

And are you saying that making a awesome mediacenter with the distro won't be possible? I think that will be one of the first things to come of it imo.

I was just trying to re-enforce what you were saying, sorry if it came off like a correction.

Making a Media center MIGHT be possible, it really depends on the limits Sony imposes on the distro...

The biggest stumbling block IMO is that for a GREAT media center application as opposed to just a so-so one it really needs to be run as the OS itself, which wont happen with a pre-compiled and licensed Linux OS. Further the console would have to be re-booted whenever you wanted to switch between movies and games

Also IIRC Linux has some shortcomings when it comes to DVD (and undoubtedly Blu-Ray) playback being that there are no official media players the copy protections on the discs must be broken to play them. I'm not sure exactly where this stands but I know it's been the subject of more then one high profile lawsuit over personal backups.

the PS2 had a homebrew media center as well... but it wasn't that good and hardly anyone seemed to care. The GC has an MP3 player/streamer but I've never met anyone who actually uses it.

I think the other thing is the modding community. The Xbox modding community is huge, and very helpful in terms of improving things for the greater good of all. Most of the teams work with their projects open source, and even those that don't construct them in a generic way that would allow other teams to make use of that tech as well. For instance team Xecuter makes the X2 bioses but they write them in a way that they can still be used for TSOP flashing, exploits, or on other modchips. They could have very easily written them so that they only work on their own chips.

The PS2 modding community is very competitive and self-centered by comparison. Go over to ps2newz.net (Xbox-Scene's PS2 sister site) And see how many tutorials they have availble... chances are the only thing you'll find are links to chip install instructions on the "Team's" website. Ask for help and you'll probably find people telling you to just hire someone to install it for you...

Teams don't share info, almost all of the projects are closed source, and any development outside of saleable products is shut down by the big teams by making their products conveniently incompatible. Not to mention all but 1 team make their bioses proprietary to their chips and non flash-able, so you have to buy new chips whenever you want to upgrade and you can't use the chip you like with the bios you like etc.

The tools were available, an XBMC could have easily existed on the PS2 (even without Linux) and the PS3 will probably be capable of having one too. But all the hardware and development tools in the world wont help if the community isn't behind it.

I think this is a big part of where my dis-taste for the PS2 stems from. I tried to get into it, I tried to organize a lot of the data, creat tutorials and FAQs etc. and pretty much there were people who's entire purpose in life was to make mine misrible because the modchip comparison table I created made their chip look bad, or because my own tutorial took away hits to their website it lost them ad revenue. or my promotion of a homebrew app got people questioning why certain chips wouldn't support it. etc etc.

The PS modding community is as corporate driving as Sony themselves... I tried, I got sick of the resistance so I started contributing in areas where people actually seemed to appreciate my efforts.

[bucko]

Nice to finally here more info, I've never tried Yellow Dog Linux, only Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoox etc.

I need a new computer, my AMD Duron aint up to the task nowerdays.

If it's fully identical to the PPC version then I'm all for it.

Sorry been drinking two days straight tired

[henmill]

i'm a silly fool, sorry for sounding like (and being) a dunce

[throwingks]

QUOTE

XBMC for PC
>> I think this is the first port from Xbox to PC (Windows).
Some people of the XboxMediaCenter(info) crew have ported their program to PC. This does of course NOT mean any end to XBMC for Xbox whatsoever!

Cause that's not for Linux. I have never used it, so I have no idea what it is like.
http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

In any case, mplayer does run under Linux. That is what it was designed for.
http://www.mplayerhq.hu/
I do use that, but I use the Win32 build. It plays just about everything I throw at it. I use it as a tester for XBMC. If it doesn't play under mplayer, I convert it. That way I know XBMC will play it.

[Mr Invader]

The main question i have is.... Was this a good move that Sony had for the PS3?

This increases piracy, it increases hackers, and it might run crappy on the 256 RAM for the PS3.
But it also broadens interaction with the PS3 because it can run Linux software and a Linux web browser.

So thumbs up or thumbs down on this Yellow Dog Linux 5.0 for the PS3?

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Mr Invader @ Oct 17 2006, 09:56 PM)

The main question i have is.... Was this a good move that Sony had for the PS3?

This increases piracy, it increases hackers, and it might run crappy on the 256 RAM for the PS3.
But it also broadens interaction with the PS3 because it can run Linux software and a Linux web browser.

So thumbs up or thumbs down on this Yellow Dog Linux 5.0 for the PS3?

you misspelled decreases... having an officially licensed Linux distribution DECREASES piracy.

I've explained this like 3 times already in this thread... if you missed it just look up, I'm tired of repeating myself.

with that in consideration it's definitly a thumbs up all around for Sony, added functionality with nothing lost.

[Mr Invader]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Oct 18 2006, 06:33 AM)

you misspelled decreases... having an officially licensed Linux distribution DECREASES piracy.

I've explained this like 3 times already in this thread... if you missed it just look up, I'm tired of repeating myself.

with that in consideration it's definitly a thumbs up all around for Sony, added functionality with nothing lost.

QUOTE

No running Linux on a PS3 would not in any way shape or form aid piracy... NOT AT ALL.

Sorry, i read that quote wrong, i thought it said it would aid priacy. my bad.

But, i don't seem to understand why it wouldn't encourage modders and hackers, since most modding deals with Linux in the first place (like the original xbox). Wouldn't already having Linux on the PS3 just make it easier for people to mod (software and such?). Or is that what makes it legal with Linux already on there?

Perhaps theres something i'm not getting.

[Analog Kid]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Oct 16 2006, 07:56 PM)

I think people forget that they had linux on the PS2 as well...

I guess I just don't understand why no one gave a shit about PS2 Linux but suddendly it's a ZOMG! Features on the PS3  

I know I'm a little late to the party, but some of the reasons for the poor uptake are in this news release about the PS2 Linux kit.

List price for the kit was $200, including a 40GB hard drive, network adapter, and VGA cable - but that's still a lot to use an open-source OS on a console with a $300 list price at launch.  Plus, your display was REQUIRED to accept sync-on-green VGA input - and since this was before big flat-panels became popular, the kit was effectively limited to use with PC monitors.  It's pretty easy to see why the kit wasn't popular, especially compared with the ease of setting up a modded Xbox.

It'll be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes, now that Linux will run on the PS3 as-is.