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[UnLckyN]

Yeah i think the quality in todays games are really slipping. I miss the snes  

[Mage]

Nostalgia is a funny thing eh.
This happens every generation it seems, however the thing I find funny is the fact that I hated the n64 so much, so I personally I like the gamecube far more than the n64.

I disliked where the zelda series was going on the n64, so I really enjoyed windwaker.  It was a bit rushed, but the next one (I hope still is cel shaded!) should focus more on gameplay.

I could ramble on for hours, but in the end, I think it is about what system you loved the most, for me, that was the snes, due to many things.

The games aren't really what are changing; we're what's changing.

[TheMuffinMan]

I dunno, I think nintendo has gone downhill,

1) I feel their gamecube was marketed to too young of a consumer (where they couldnt really pay for it themselves)
2) All they're doing is coming out with sequels (Mario Party 88 anyone?)
3) It can't run dvd's

By going downhill, I only mean in the console department, their handhelds are still amazing, and doing quite well, games like Golden Sun and so on are amazing.

With Zelda, I liked and enjoyed the N64 versions, with the WW on GC i absolutely hated it, not the gameplay, but the graphics, just horrible in my mind. I dunno how many of you saw the prototype pics they had for it, but those were amazing. They were kind of a darkish/RE type game, which I thought would look pretty good on a Zelda title. But they changed it to the cartoonish look of WW  

[J_Man61]

THE BEST GAME EVER IS 007 GOLDENEYE FOR N64. THE NEW 007 GAMES DON'T COME CLOSE.

[shavedrat]

I dont think necessarily the quality is lowering, I think peoples standards just increase and new games dont have the same appeal.

I haven't played wind waker, but I too was turned off by the cell-shading. I liked it in Jet Set Radio Future, but I found the original early images of zelda knocked my pants off a lot more. (the Link model used in soul calibur) Cell shading, to me, kinda looks like all the textures were removed and everything is a solid color (as if it were colored in MS paint). I'm sure Wind Waker is still great, as most first-party Nintendo games tend to be, but Nintendo is appealing too much to an audience who doesnt have money to purchase games. In one sense, Nintendo would figure that if the audience started playing on Nintendo systems young, that they would be loyal and continue, but I think most people are just going with PS2 and Xbox as they get older.  


Oh yes, Goldeneye was an amazing game. Better than halo  When perfect dark zero is released, I hope it will live up to the originals, but from the way Rare is looking right now.... itll be cell-shaded, and you will shoot Mr Pantsand the main character's one-liners will be gadzooks and jimminy jillickers. Oh yes, It wont be released until 2008 either.

[Asmodeus]

I have to ask you a question or two.....

Is Crash Bandicoot a whole lot better on the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube than it was on the OLD PS1?
Is Silent Hill 2/3 on the PS2 better than Silent Hill on the PS1?
Is Sonic Adventure DX/2 or Heroes better than the original Sonics for the GENISIS!!!!!???
How about Soul Calibur 2?
Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance?
Twisted Metal Black?
Ridge Racer V?
Turok Evolution?



Getting my point yet? Most new developers are REALLY lazy. Compared to the huge pile of CRAP I just named above.....don't Mario Sunshine and Zelda:WW/ play pretty well? At least Nintendo realizes that there is a controller involved in playing games....so many XBox and PS2 games have become movies (MGS2....FFX....), if I wanted to watch a movie I would buy a decent DVD player and watch it....not waste the 25 minutes of working laser my PS2 has available.

In other words....no.....I don't think Nintendo has fallen very low off of their perch. Watching the dead or alive girls jiggle boobies while "playing" volleyball is not much of a game. Watching Tifa lose more and more clothing as every generation of FF is released is not all that ground-breaking either. If Tekken/ Virtua Fighter/ DOA or use any more polygons making prostitutes titties any more realistic maybe we could see the scarring or the irregularities in the Silicone implants. I loved Ridge Racer on the old PS1....now it is just a whole lot of cut scenes showing off itty bitty oriental girls (who coincedentally look closer to 13 than 23) jiggling their wares. I am so glad that the XBox and PS2 are making ADULT games so I don't have to actually play a game. Ever play some of the games mentioned above WITHOUT the cut-scenes? Some become very...very small....simple games. How much would Mario or Zelda lose without the cut-scenes?

Nintendo has not gotten any worse than any other company out there.....PERIOD!

[thatsme]

I think that we have to give game developers more credit. A 2d scroller took a fraction of the time and money that it takes to develop a good 3d game. Thats why everyone says that the handheld games are better: more time on gameplay and story, rather than graphics.

As for "Metal Gear syndrome"(more movie than gameplay)  

But i think that we can all agree that there is no excuse for games that have bad camera angles. Give me a game with bad angles and I WILL NOT PLAY IT, regardless of slick graphics, good plot or cool shadow/water effects.  

edit: in fact, i would rather have slightly degraded graphics if it meant good camera angles and fun gameplay.

[TheMuffinMan]

Yeh, it seems that a good number of games no adays are having those behind the wall/inside character/through level limits cameras going on

[DuDeR MaN]

I have to give bean bandit the award for having the most mature, intellegent post degrading nintendo that I have ever read.

much better than, "Sony kicks arse.  GC Suxors!"

I agree with you 100%.  Mario 64 was an amazing experience the first time I played it.  And sunshine was fun but wasn't even close enough to meet mario64's quality.  I think that making the new zelda game cel shaded was a huge mistake.  Once again it was a fun game but to me it didn't feel like the Link I knew and loved.. wait maybe because it WASN'T link... but a newer link set years and years after the good ole link died and became the legend he is in that game.  There is so much more you can do with realistic graphics, especially when enhancing combat.  Mario Kart I though was best on the 64 as well.  The original was great and 64 lived up to it.  Double Dash though doesn't have that feel.  I had alot of fun in the one player but the multiplayer is so weak it felt like a chore playing it.  As for metroid... nice try but no cigar, I don't think we'll ever have a metroid game that beats Super Metroid... Fusion tried to live up to it but I had very little fun with it.

The point is, nintendo is making a statment.  They want to be known as creative but the fact is we, as gamers, actually do not mind the same games given to us year after year... I for one would rather it.  Who here says they don't want a mario game where you save the princess from bowser in his castle again.  Who here wouldn't want to be the dark sword wielding link that we grew up with fighting against the evil gannon and saving the princess zelda hyrule.  Who wouldn't want to be Samus, the incredible female intergallactic bounty hunter who fights the evil mother brain.  I for one want to play these again.  I want the same old, just with a graphics update, semi-new storyline, and new level designs.  And of course you always want some new suprises... BUT NOT ENTIRE GAME MAKEOVERS.

Nintendo will never learn though... why?  because they are selling like crazy dispite what gamers think.  Because they can sell millions of copies of wind waker because it's a "good game" and not the great game it could have been.  Because they will make the gameboy smaller and smaller with as little buttons as possible until they are dominated in the handheld industry by the upcoming sony psp.  I've given up on nintendo.  They have died to me.  And as much as I love my xbox now.. it seems only one company is looking to the future in a smart way.. and that is sony.  No I am not a sony fanboy, to say I am is comical since I never owned a ps1 or ps2, in fact I don't like the controller layout.  But you can't go wrong with the games, and between nextbox, ps3, and the nintendo whatevertheyhelltheycallit... ps3 sounds like the winner already from what I have read.  ok, my rant is done.


oh yea, and one more thing... remember mario all stars?  the game for snes where they remade all the current mario games with enhanced graphics.   Now look at Smash Bros. Melee.  You know those sidescroolling levels?  of course you do.  How could would it be if they remade the mario, zelda, and metroid games for the gamecube is a 3d sidescroller (or 3d above cam for zelda).  Hell I'd buy it and spend a good amount for it.  I'd spend at least $50 for each (all the marios on one disc, all the zeldas on one disc, etc.)  And I garentee that a ton of gamers would buy it.  Does nintendo want to do this?  no... why?  because it would be doing something they already did which they don't want to do.   damn nintendo...

[crobar]

im not sure that the games have gotten much worse for me...i know the games would be much more fun if nintendo didnt try to be different with every freggin system they make and make a screwy controller.
playstation kept their lay out and im sure xbox will for the next system...
nintendo will most likley change theirs agian and ...again i wont play their games.

[chefelf]

QUOTE (Mage @ Feb 8 2004, 02:05 AM)

Nostalgia is a funny thing eh. This happens every generation it seems, however the thing I find funny is the fact that I hated the n64 so much, so I personally I like the gamecube far more than the n64. I disliked where the zelda series was going on the n64, so I really enjoyed windwaker.  It was a bit rushed, but the next one (I hope still is cel shaded!) should focus more on gameplay. I could ramble on for hours, but in the end, I think it is about what system you loved the most, for me, that was the snes, due to many things. The games aren't really what are changing; we're what's changing.

Perfectly put.  I didn't really like the "realistic" style that they were going for in OoT and MM.  WW was a refreshing return to the cartoony look of the original Zelda game.  I still think WW had its problems but, in my opinion, it was the best Zelda game since Link to the Past.

Furthermore Mario Sunshine, which was a pretty good game, just didn't innovate on the theme enough (as Mario 64 did) to make it all that memorable for me.  Mario 64 practically changed my life while Sunshine was just a fun game.

Nintendo has been shooting themselves in the foot for a while now.  Cutting the GC price to $99 is the best thing they've done in a long time.  Continuing to ignore the potential of online gaming--and pushing this crazy "connectivity" garbage instead--may, ultimately, be their undoing.

[brandogg]

Nintendo is better than they've ever been, as far as making games goes. Both GBA Metroids are better than any of the others (2D). Wind Waker is the perfect evolution in the 3D Zelda era. Sunshine could have been better, but it was a nice expansion of Super Mario 64. Luigi's Mansion was nothing special, but it was a good piece of software to show off what the Gamecube could do when it was first release. Pikmin is one of the most original games I've ever played (and one of my favorites), and I can't wait for the sequel. They've been very smart as to who they've partnered with. Retro did an absolutely incredible job with Metroid Prime, and now are owned 100% by Nintendo. Letting Namco handle franchises like Donkey Kong and Star Fox is a smart move, because they are a very established 3rd party capable of making jaw-dropping games, and have a very close relationship with Nintendo now (TriForce). It also allows Nintendo to publish more franchise games than they could do if they made all of them in-house.

Bottom line - I think Nintendo is doing great and can go nowhere but up from here. I've been a fan since I got my NES in 1985, and that's not going to change any time soon.

[DuDeR MaN]

ok I'd like to add my disgust about final fantasy'd crytal cronicle's multiplayer.  WHY THE HELL DO YOU REQUIRE 4 GBAs TO PLAY MULTIPLAYER?!! I just played this game over a buddy's house and I can't believe it.  Sure it's a clever idea but to REQUIRE it?  I personally would have loved the normal controller in my hand, it's not fun to controller a 3d character with a d-pad.  Also I don't like having to look up and downfrom the tv screen to the gba.  Also the fact that one person has to carry a bucket rather than fight isn't the least bit fun.  This game feels like a challenge to see how much gamers can put up with.  Don't get me wrong, it's fun but setting up and everything you have to encounter while playing is annoying as hell, and the bosses are incredibly easy.  This is another blow from nintendo that making me want to spit in their face.  Good game.. but I guess for them.. a better scam than a game.  

gc = $100
ffcc= $50
4 gbas w/ link cables = $320, or 4 gbasp with link cables= $480

all together thats $470 - $630 to play this things multiplayer and that doesn't even count the batteries that the gba eats up while playing this.

[XeroKitsune]

One thing that has changed since N64 is Rare's dealings with Nintendo. Behind many of the "classics of n64" are handywork of Rare Ware.
Little games like
Goldeneye
Donkey Kong 64
Killer Instinct
Banjo-Kazooie
All outsourced, not the inhouse development teams working on them.
Lately Rare has been making titles for XBox. I think turning to Sega as a game developer was brilliant, they have a excelent design team.
The other side of the coin is, that it take much more work to create the 3d emersive titles than the 2d titles of the past.
Combind this with the beating it's taken in the market, making a huge 3d emersive game on a strange consept is a gamble that many game companys shy away from. So they go with the money makers, what is tried and true, thier core character sets. The problem there is a need to make the old new. While many will resist any changes to the a series, if not enough is changed then it will be forgotten by many. Oh well, thats my thoughts on it.