Topic: God's Existence? (Read 639 times)

gcskate27 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 03, 2008, 07:38:00 PM »

why does there have to be a start? humans think so only because there was a start to them: in individual and ancestral terms...

gatorayde · « **Reply #31 on:** March 03, 2008, 08:55:00 PM »

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Mar 3 2008, 09:14 PM)

why does there have to be a start?

Probably because I can't think of one thing that doesn't have a beginning/creator/start. If you do, please enlighten me

And sure, had someone or something created just a single (maybe two now that I think about it...) hydrogen atom, our entire universe could most likely exist as it is now.

On a way side note, anyone know a 5v source in a ps3

(honestly, I can't find one anywhere...)

Albut35 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 03, 2008, 09:18:00 PM »

QUOTE(hamwbone @ Mar 3 2008, 07:12 PM)

its so much more comfortable to say a god created some starting point. but who created that god then? if god always was and always will be according to the bible, why cant the universe be always and forever be here.

That is a question that I have been wondering for a couple months now. After some deep thinking and some research I've came up with this idea of who created God:

Nothing/NoOne created God.

You see. If God created everything, then wouldn't he of had to create 'creation'. So there for, nothing created God, since he created creation in the first place.
Also, If God created everything, he would of had to created 'time' right? So there for, there was no time before which God created time. So there was no time before He created time.
Also, we think of God as a physical creature/matter. Which in fact, God could be something totally different, he could be something that we can't even comprehend cause there's nothing like it in OUR universe.

Also, check out this video:

hamwbone · « **Reply #33 on:** March 03, 2008, 10:14:00 PM »

please dont take this as an insult, like i have said i dont understand whu people have to think there is a starting point for everything. i know its my stomach sick and boggles my mind, but it IS possible that there is no beginning and no end. everything you see could have always been here, time only exists because living beings acnowledge it. Using a god is so much easier to comprehend then an uncomprehensible number. If god is eternal, why cant the invinite universe be eternal. Maybe the universe is god?

gator, how can you use adam and eve as an example of spontaneos creation, im open to any ideas, but you are taking that form a book that contains STORIES. Creation i think is a from of mutation, evolution, change, destruction followed by rebirth. why do you think stuff has to be created? If you think a god has always been why is it so hard to believe that the place we live, the universe, has not always been. My eyes see some thing that exists when i look up. to.. many... thoughts... ahhh

gatorayde · « **Reply #34 on:** March 03, 2008, 11:01:00 PM »

i still dont see how anything can come from nothing. If you have any specific examples of something spontaneously creating itself, please do share as I have found nothing yet like such a thing.

I also dont see howyou can deny the fact of any sort of aided creation by another force. Where did our universe come from? How did it get started? Where did all the gases from the big bang theory come from?

And I was mearley using Adam and eve as an example, it was the first thing that poped in my head.

ubernewb · « **Reply #35 on:** March 04, 2008, 03:06:00 AM »

reading thru this, and so many questions left unanswered.. my main two..

1. christians say that the big bang is impossible because "something had to create that initial mass" ... well, if everything had to have been created, then where did god come from? how can the rule exist for one thing, but not the other?

2. people bring up creationism via adam and eve.. how could this be possible? did you never study inbred hybridization in school? generation upon generation stemmed from the same genes leads to utter failure. offspring are, for lack of a better word, retarded. this has been both studied and proved in various tests, yet somehow humans are immune to these effects?

my personal belief? god (and the bible) was seen as an easy way to maintain order over a large group of people. threaten people with punishment from an all-seeing invisible force (along with a few staged examples of this unforseen power) and they will, for the most part, be scared into doing pretty much whatever you want them to do. religious leaders see the general public as cattle in need of herding.. nothing more

gatorayde · « **Reply #36 on:** March 04, 2008, 06:04:00 AM »

@ #1: Well if there is a god out there, he would not need a creator technically since he would be god, but then again we won't know if there is until we die so that will be a question left un answered forever.

@ #2: I was simply using adam and eve as two random people, I could have said John and Jane or Bob and Betty. I wasn't trying to say that adam and eve. So then like I said, I do beleive in the theory of evolution so maybe two people weren't "created", but rather two elements and from then onto single celled organisms, etc etc

I still have yet to see any evidence of something not having a beginning (besides god because that will never be proven nor disproven) so please, if anyone has a picture or video or something showing something spontaneously creating itself onto something, I will change my beliefs forever (no im not a christian TBH, I believe what I believe and nothing more FYI)

throwingks · « **Reply #37 on:** March 04, 2008, 07:51:00 AM »

QUOTE(gatorayde @ Mar 4 2008, 01:37 AM)

i still dont see how anything can come from nothing. If you have any specific examples of something spontaneously creating itself, please do share as I have found nothing yet like such a thing.

http://en.wikipedia....tum_fluctuation
Energy can be spontaneously created for extremely short bursts of time.

For all we know, since time is not real, this all can be a spontaneous quantum fluctuation. The closer you are to the speed of light the slower times goes. We could be traveling at as close to as mathematically possible to the speed of light right now. Therefor to "God's" inertial frame, we are still only in the middle of a burst.

crackfeen · « **Reply #38 on:** March 04, 2008, 08:34:00 AM »

QUOTE(gatorayde @ Mar 4 2008, 08:40 AM)

I still have yet to see any evidence of something not having a beginning (besides god because that will never be proven nor disproven) so please, if anyone has a picture or video or something showing something spontaneously creating itself onto something

evidence of something with no beginning? such as numbers?
and as far as something spontaniously creating itself out of nothing... how about the decay of a deuterium atom into a proton and electron.. if you look at the end results... you will notice that the combined mass of the two particles after the reaction is greater than the mass of one deuterium atom.. it's not much but it proves a point that matter can in fact be created... however you need energy to do so.. and as throwingks brought up right before me.. quantum fluctuations can produce energy

lostboyz · « **Reply #39 on:** March 04, 2008, 09:58:00 AM »

god is dead and we killed him

lostboyz · « **Reply #40 on:** March 05, 2008, 08:17:00 PM »

The bible describes how to get to heaven, science explains how the heavens go

HOUSECAT · « **Reply #41 on:** March 06, 2008, 05:05:00 AM »

My opinion is that GOD, JESUS, THE BIBLE ARE NOT REAL / no religion is real. And when you die your nothing just like before you were born. no heaven no hell. Any intelligible person knows that deep down. I mean just look...when your in a deep sleep everything is just black and being dead is kind of like a deep sleep. Everything is just gonna be black and you'll be un-conscious. But the universe in whole is something different it didn't just appear all of a sudden. The universe is.. A SIZE that is un-imaginable and if their is any type of afterlife's or any of that crap it would be re-creation. Cause that's the only way you could physically be alive again and able to process thought. But it's all just too confusing cause you came from the genes of the people who created you. That means if you yourself will not be recreated but you will be a completely different species and you will have no recollection of your life before because you have different organs and different ways of living maybe not even organs or anything that involves the brain and thinking. Maybe life in other universes consist of things un-known to this universe.

When it's all said and done, your dead and you will never be existing again. EVER!! Hurt's but it's the truth. SO STAY ALIVE AS LONG AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. BUT EVEN THAT DOEST"T MATTER!!! SURVIVAL DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE YOUR GOING TO DIE EVENTUALLY.

crackfeen · « **Reply #42 on:** March 06, 2008, 08:55:00 AM »

been reading much Nietzsche? that and lostboys' two quotes above with the god is dead.... he's a very angry individual.. read some of his works

regarding the afterlife, honestly i agree with you, was it Marx who said that religion was the opium of the people? that it distracts people from the now and lets them focus on the later... i agree in the sense that i don't think there's an afterlife but i don't need one yet... (by yet i mean that a lot of people getting up in the years magically find out that they've been religious all their lives) i just think that it's one of those things made up to not feel so bad about dying.. do what the old and exciting religions did.. become immortal through some kind of achievement that makes your legacy live on forever.. a legend that lives on forever
kitty.. your arguments are poorly formed how can you deny the existence of a bible or even jesus for that matter... go to a church to become convinced that both are in fact very real.. their holy validity is under suspicion but you have to specify.. otherwise assholes like myself are gonna pick apart your arguments.
furthermore you're a little defeatist. the fact that you're inevitably going to die doesn't mean that survival doesn't matter.. it just means that you only have from the time you're born to the time you die to actually do something useful with your life
but this is getting off topic of the existence of god.. and simply put we're not going to get an answer. because the question itself is vague. the idea of "god" is poorly defined thus it cannot be proved or disproved, the whole point is that you're supposed to take it on faith and if you have it, more power to you. religion however has played a HUGE role on the evolution of society.. historically, mostly negatively so i don't really want or need it in my life

lostboyz · « **Reply #43 on:** March 06, 2008, 11:58:00 AM »

are you calling me angry or Nietzsche?

As far as the afterlife is concerned i am huge believer in the method described in slaughterhouse 5.

crackfeen · « **Reply #44 on:** March 06, 2008, 02:34:00 PM »

QUOTE(lostboyz @ Mar 6 2008, 02:34 PM)

are you calling me angry or Nietzsche?

As far as the afterlife is concerned i am huge believer in the method described in slaughterhouse 5.

god is dead was one of nietzche's most popular quotes so i found it funny that you said that and were followed up by roughly his philosophical perspective
and i never read slaughterhouse 5.. so you're gonna have to elaborate a little bit

Author Topic: God's Existence? (Read 639 times)