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Author Topic: Modder Faces Jail Time After Raid  (Read 674 times)

coldasice

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Modder Faces Jail Time After Raid
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2007, 04:40:00 PM »

What a dumbass. Personally I use craigslist to advertise my REPAIR shop. Never modding stuff. Modding is legally a grey area. It allows you to do illegal things (pirated games), but also allows you to create/run homebrew software, run linux, among many other things that are not illegal, but this guy was clearly miles beyond that line. I always see kids selling modded xbox 1's on craigslist saying you can do all this stuff and never have to pay for a game again. Also I see tons of people selling xboxs with HD's loaded with games and no origionals. Idiots. Oh well though those types of people will always be around no matter what.
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Agent ME

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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2007, 04:47:00 PM »

QUOTE(sicknasty413 @ Jun 26 2007, 03:38 PM) View Post
Ok, so is installing modchips/drivechips illegal or not? I'm confuzzled.

It's the fact he was selling pirated games, not just the modchip thing.
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Heet

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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2007, 04:56:00 PM »

Just a heads up to any other idiot selling ripped dvd's of any kind or selling boxes with stuffed 250's, they are pinching right now big time.  


A member here was basically investigated and strip searched at an airport and never was given reason for it.  They examined his laptop and asked 50 questions about his business. (did nothing wrong so was let go)

Another was busted after putting up youtube videos bragging about what he had.

The next one was investigated by the ESA and all kinds of cash at stake.

I know of like 4 other cases that are just members on this site alone.  



Look out.
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lostboyz

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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2007, 05:10:00 PM »

thats how most are

modchips are legal, using a hacked bios (built with xdk) are illegal and obviously so are selling pirated games.
if you really want to cover your ass, all you can technically do is install and send them to places like this so they can flash the bios themselves
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steel skin

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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 05:37:00 PM »

QUOTE(Heet @ Jun 26 2007, 04:32 PM) View Post

A member here was basically investigated and strip searched at an airport and never was given reason for it.  They examined his laptop and asked 50 questions about his business. (did nothing wrong so was let go)


The fact that they strip searched him, checked his laptop, and did all this with out a warrant, and he let them makes me laugh! BAHAHAHAH..DOLT!


Let this be a lesson to all you kiddies, when stopped by the cops and questioned. Your answer to their questions, should be in the form of a question

Q "What type of business are you into"

                   "Am I under arrest?"

Q: "Why do you have all this equipment"

                   "Am I free to go?"

Q: "Can we look in your laptop?"

                    "Do you have a warrant"

If they tell you they can get one, tell them you can wait (Be sure to smile).
If they had shit on you to begin with they'd already have a warrant.

LOL...learn your rights.

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47_M450N_47

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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 06:01:00 PM »

Amen steel skin, same thing goes with if you get pulled over.  If they ask if you have weapons in the car, unless they are in plain sight, tell them no.  That way they don't have reason to search your vehicle.  If they ask to search, always ask for a warrant.  Don't let big brother snoop through your business unless you have no other choice!
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JBmtk

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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2007, 06:26:00 PM »

QUOTE(Sankyou @ Jun 26 2007, 07:12 PM) View Post

You guys have got to be kidding me.  Maybe it's time we all step back and think about morals but slamming on this guy and saying it "serves him right" when you're stealing the games yourselves is pathetic.  I know there are people here that stick to the rules and only use backups / homebrew - but the other 95% of you should leave your hypocracy to yourselves.



so true. I don't think this guy should get slammed for a lot of money or a long jail sentence. Now if he had a huge THRIVING buisness like the article said and sent out as many packages a day like New Egg, then yea, he probably should get the sentence, but just here and there ain't so bad, but still illegal.
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appleguru

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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2007, 06:30:00 PM »

QUOTE(amptor @ Jun 26 2007, 07:31 PM) View Post

both are illegal in the USA beyond a doubt and why people in the US sell them is beyond me.  read: DMCA and you will see why.  I'm not sure why people still debate it, it is written law.


Wrong. 17 USC ยง 1201 (The anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA) states:

QUOTE(DMCA)

(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that -

( A ) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

( B ) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or

( C ) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

(3) As used in this subsection -

( A ) to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

( B ) a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.

So yes, it is definitely a legal grey area. Basically, it is illegal to sell/make modchips in the United States IF their primary and only real purpose is to get around a copy protection measure.

As such, it could easily be argued in court that a chip's primary use is to enable the play of legal imported games and fair use backups, as well as enable the use of homebrew code that GREATLY expands the capabilities of the system (a perfect example of this is Xbox Media Center for the xbox 1) and thus isn't just about bypassing a copy protection measure to enable piracy.

But I honestly could care less if the DMCA makes selling and using modchips illegal. It's a bullshit law that changes the way copyright has always worked. To quote one of my law textbooks on it:

QUOTE(Cheeseman Pg. 337)

The DMCA changes the traditional fair use doctrine of copyright law. Historically, it has never been a crime to access or make a copy of a copyrighted work; what has been a crime is the misuse of that information. This rule remains valid for the nondigital world of copyrighted works. The DMCA changes this rule for digital protected works, making it illegal to merely access the copyrighted material by breaking through the digital wrapper or encryption technology that protects the work.


In addition, nowhere does the DMCA say it is illegal to USE or BUY modchips, just to make and sell them. So that leaves the end user in the clear so long as they're not using it for piracy.

The sellers and makers on the other hand seem to be where the law is aimed at.

The only precedent for chip sales and the DMCA I could find was a September, 2006 case in which Sony sued Divineo (SCEA vs Divineo Inc, et al(457 F. Supp. 2d 957; 2006 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 74878; 81 U.S.P.Q.2D (BNA) 1045) for selling HDLoader and HDAdvance devices under the DMCA. Divineo Inc, the canada subsidery was found to have been in violation and fined $3.75 Million (no idea if they ever paid it, but...)

And Max/Divineo SARL never showed up in court, and lost by default, with Sony being awarded another $5+ million in damages. Again, doubt it was ever paid (especially since neither were US companies).

I still find it a shame that they lost the case. Divineo Inc's owner and operator Frederic Legault tried to argue (rightfully so), that the chips and devices he sold were the only means to be able to play legally obtained import games, and run homebrew programs. And while the court agreed with him, they still ruled against him, stating:

"Downstream customers' lawful or fair use of circumvention devices does not relieve Mr. Legault from liability for trafficking in such devices under the DMCA"

I just don't see how that's possible. If a device is being used for a legal purpose, how in the hell can they find someone guilty of selling an illegal device? The "downstream use" of the product IS its PRIMARY purpose.. saying anything otherwise is complete and utter bullshit.

I suppose the only real solution to this is to really push the marketing aspect of chips as devices whose PRIMARY PURPOSE is for playing legally imported games and running homebrew software. The DMCA is a terrible law, arguably unconstitutonal as it impedes interstate commerce. But that's another fight for another day. The fact that companies exploit it to harrass and extort their consumers is disgustng (Read: RIAA). In any case, I personally firmly believe that the sale of modchips IS legal under the DMCA. Just because you can kill someone with a baseball bat doesn't mean the sale of wood (or bats for that matter) should be illegal. A bat's intended purpose is to hit a baseball. And likewaise, just because you can use a modchip to commit acts of piracy DOES NOT mean that they should be illegal either. A modchip's primary purpose is to play legally obtained import games and expand the capabilities of your console to run homebrew code (Emulators, web browsers, media centers, etc)
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feflicker

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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2007, 06:36:00 PM »

Don't these cops got anything better to do? SERIOUSLY  blink.gif  Selling games is a big no-no, I'd never do that, NEVER. Let's hope they don't start busting people for merely installing a chip, not that it matters, I personally rarely ever do mods anymore anyway...
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lostboyz

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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2007, 07:57:00 PM »

those mentioning getting searched to refuse, you have a very flawed sense of how things work

yes it is your right to refuse a search, in an airport they have you by the balls because you cant fly if you dont comply, it would take months to get off of a no fly list. Frankly because of 9/11 they can do whatever the fuck they want. If a cop wants to search your car, he will, it has very little bearing on the answer to the request. Though, I have heard most that say ya sure are usually let go.

This guy does deserve what he gets. If he needs to rely on sales of something he downloaded rather then the sales of the actual mod, well he obviously needs a job. Some people never learn and I guess now advertise their guilt
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gsharpshooter

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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2007, 07:58:00 PM »

haahah pethatic remeber one thing only help ur self not others as i do with my life unless its like helping the poor or something with money thats diff but illegally is stupid just keep illegal things 2 urself and u wont get fucked jeez.
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Dyer13

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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2007, 09:32:00 PM »

QUOTE(lostboyz @ Jun 26 2007, 10:33 PM) View Post

those mentioning getting searched to refuse, you have a very flawed sense of how things work

yes it is your right to refuse a search, in an airport they have you by the balls because you cant fly if you dont comply, it would take months to get off of a no fly list. Frankly because of 9/11 they can do whatever the fuck they want. If a cop wants to search your car, he will, it has very little bearing on the answer to the request. Though, I have heard most that say ya sure are usually let go.

This guy does deserve what he gets. If he needs to rely on sales of something he downloaded rather then the sales of the actual mod, well he obviously needs a job. Some people never learn and I guess now advertise their guilt



I don't know how it works as far as airports go, but as far as POLICE goes, unless they have a warrant, they CANNOT legally search your car against your will. If they do anyway after you say no, anything they find that may be illegal will be inadmissible in court, and your case will easily be dismissed.


AppleGuru

I applaud you for your post. I agree 100%. No manufacturer can be held responsible for what the end consumer does with their product.
What next? It will be illegal to open YOUR xbox because you MIGHT be modding it...pfft. dry.gif
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0794

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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2007, 09:38:00 PM »

QUOTE(amptor @ Jun 26 2007, 06:31 PM) View Post

both are illegal in the USA beyond a doubt and why people in the US sell them is beyond me.  read: DMCA and you will see why.  I'm not sure why people still debate it, it is written law.


wrong...very wrong...read below

QUOTE(lostboyz @ Jun 26 2007, 06:46 PM) View Post

modchips are legal, using a hacked bios (built with xdk) are illegal and obviously so are selling pirated games.
if you really want to cover your ass, all you can technically do is install and send them to places like this so they can flash the bios themselves


modchips are bought with non-XDK derived BIOS' on them - like for example the linux cromwell BIOS and thus are not illegal.  however there are technically reverse-engineering laws around too - so it is hard to say for certain the legality of a mod-chip - thus the common referral to it being a "grey" area.

selling copies of other people's property (like video games or movies) is definitely illegal and if anyone does this, they should be punished.

we, however, do not know the full facts on this case yet and should not rush to judgment.
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buttface96

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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2007, 09:43:00 PM »

QUOTE
Mod chips also allow gamers to play out-of-region games and homebrew software that unmodded consoles cannot play. With all of the pressure on the mod chip community, hackers are increasingly turning to softmods, which take advantage of holes in software to unlock systems.
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Home Less

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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2007, 10:19:00 PM »

hmmm, advertising illegal stuff on craigslist might be a bad idea.
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