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[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 12 2006, 05:37 PM)

RESEARCH!

Do you think I'm referring to current military policy? NO.

In previous major world wars, the US asked for help from illegal immigrants. In exchange for helping defend our country, the U.S. promised to aid them in becoming legal residents. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the immigrants who accepted this offer died in combat.

You dont have to be a US citizen to be a foot soldier, certain positions with elevated security clearance require US citizenship but to carry a rifle in Iraq all you need are flat feet.

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 12 2006, 07:23 PM)

You dont have to be a US citizen to be a foot soldier, certain positions with elevated security clearance require US citizenship but to carry a rifle in Iraq all you need are flat feet.

actually you can be rejected from service for having flat feet, i was (well, the heart murmur helped too)

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 13 2006, 12:01 AM)

Didnt the minimum wage increase only a couple of years ago?

its been raised 3 times in the last 5-6 years in IL, last one went into effect jan 05 i believe

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 12 2006, 04:16 PM)

You know what, making Illegals that are here NOW, legal citizens is like a slap in the face to other people that do want to get in, and some people who never can (but have the money or whatever to make the move) just because they jumped the border and suddenly amassing a huge crowd in order to win over politicians thru mass alone.  They don't even have US/Citizenship rights for gods sake.  It's their numbers alone that will push us into making a decision.

I do hope they pass the bill, but I hope that they can come to some sort of conclusion to those that are already here.  Something along the lines of allowing them a chance to become citizen just like how every other person that came here legally had to do when they applied for citizenship.

And to reply to a post above about Mexicans serving in the US Military, to serve in the Military you have to be a US citizen.  Now I can't speak for the entire race and say who's family came from a legit background or not, nevertheless, they are LEGAL citizens in service for our country.  I have no qualms about that.  But something has to be done about immigration because its' getting out of hand.  Eventually all of Southern US population will be majority of Mexicans due to illegal immigration.

It's not just because AZ, CA and such were once part of Mexico, but do some research on population in each respective cities and you'll see a huge increase due to illegal immigration.  While some states have tightened security, ours are only starting to because it IS out of hand.

I assume that 'Kira Yamoto' is not your real name.

Because I would find it quite hypocritial for a Japanese American to interpret and administer immigration policy based upon their transgressions (The Hawaii Thing).

Furthermore, our willingness as a society to accept foreign nationals from countries that we were at war with in the past 60 years should be transcribed unto our neighbors to the south.

My grandfather tried very hard to make the Japanese, Italians and Germans a footnote in a museum exhibit. And now you go to parts of america and thats all that live there.

Should Mexican Americans be any different?

P.S.

QUOTE

An illegal does not have to pay tax, national insurance or council tax. Therefore he/she can charge a cheaper rate than the natives. This has got nothing to do with “Mexicans” working harder than whites it’s down to the fact that these guys are cheaper to hire.

How can you work in the US and pay US taxes sounds more like a Republican than an illegal.

[Alex548]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 13 2006, 09:31 AM)

An illegal does not have to pay tax, national insurance or council tax.  Therefore he/she can charge a cheaper rate than the natives.  This has got nothing to do with “Mexicans” working harder than whites it’s down to the fact that these guys are cheaper to hire.

When they buy something at the store, they're charged for taxes just like anyone else.
More often than not, if they get sick... they don't visit hospitals or doctors offices for fear of deportation so the expense of healthcare isn't an issue.

QUOTE

This has got nothing to do with "Mexicans" working harder than whites it's down to the fact that these guys are cheaper to hire.

These "Mexicans" are the only people willing to do all this tough labor so NO, it doesn't come down to the fact these guys are cheaper to hire. I don't see any white people working in the fields, do you?  

In addition to the hard labor, they often have to deal with constant abuse from supervisors and employers. If they complain, the employer simply makes a phone call & the're magically deported. It's even worse for women since they often deal with sexual harassment and can't do anything about it for the reasons stated in my last sentence.

I've attended numerous local, state, and national conferences and have personally met with many farmworkers and have heard their horror stories so you cannot tell me otherwise. I've also worked with the United Farmworkers in their efforts to unionize and help these individuals.

I remember several years back we were helping workers at Guy Chaddock (a furniture building company) unionize. After a successful vote, the company refused to negotiate and eventually decided to close down their local factory instead of dealing with an employee union. Why? Because they refused to pay higher wages, refused to offer safety training for employees, and worst of all we were told they refused to strike any deals with "Mexicans."

Here's a similar case:

     

QUOTE

The UFW dealt with mushroom, nursery and furniture workers in Fall 2001. The UFW has been trying to negotiate an agreement with the Ventura, California plant of mushroom grower Pictsweet since January 2000. According to the UFW, Pictsweet wants "voluntary union membership," that is, workers would not have to join the UFW to work at Pictsweet.
     Pictsweet in October 2001 announced that it was closing its 314-employee Salem, Oregon plant, which was the target of boycotting sponsored by Pineros y Campesinos Unidos del Noreste (PCUN). Pictsweet, owned by Tennessee-based United Foods, cited cheaper imports from Canada.

Just like the Guy Chaddock issue, they chose to close down the plant rather than deal with the UFW. Cheaper imports from Canada was a load of crap since the company only closed down one plant where a union was very likely to happen. All other plants owned by United Foods are still in operation.

[gcskate27]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Apr 13 2006, 01:09 AM)

its been raised 3 times in the last 5-6 years in IL, last one went into effect jan 05 i believe

thats state, federal is STILL at $5.15, which is a fucking crime... and id wager a majority of the red states follow federal...  

*well what do you know? compare this:

Green : States with minimum wage rates higher than the Federal
Blue    : States with minimum wage rates the same as the Federal
Red     : States with minimum wage rates lower than the Federal
Yellow : States with no minimum wage law

with this:


fucking republicans...

[buttface96]

I'm for the bill for many reasons,

I live in california, probably the state with the most illegal immigrants. The main thing i can't stand is how ignorant most of them are. I'm sure you guys prolly saw all the crap in LA, the protests, the walk outs, etc. Most of the people have no idea what they are protesting. I saw several people holding signs such as "Fuck the terminator," and send the white people back the europe (kinda funny) but mainly what does arnold have to do with any of it? its a federal bill. Fuck if your gonna protest something, atleast know what the fuck your protesting

Mainly im all for the bill if it involves opening up more jobs for legal americans, and cracking down on people who snuck in here illegaly. I might sound racist, but thats how i feel

[Alex548]

QUOTE(buttface96 @ Apr 13 2006, 01:50 PM)

Mainly im all for the bill if it involves opening up more jobs for legal americans....

It doesn't open up any new jobs for americans. Just like the protesters you observed... you don't know what you're talking about either.

[chorizo1]

QUOTE(buttface96 @ Apr 13 2006, 03:50 PM)

Mainly im all for the bill if it involves opening up more jobs for legal americans,

oh ya, I can see them all lining up to work all day in the fields, or getting mistreated at restaurants.  

[gcskate27]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Apr 13 2006, 03:46 PM)

our bad.....

but quickly...isnt the argument against raising the minimum wage that increased minimum wages are directly followed by inflation?  In other words...if it becomes more expensive to keep minimum wage employees...then higher waged employees will demand higher pay as well(since they could just go take a minimum wage job that is probably easier).  You then have an increase cost of employement...which means an increased price of goods and services...this devalues the dollar...and causes inflation...

minimum wage jobs are not easy, and everyone should have to work at least on in their life: if you havent, then youve got no room to talk(you in general, not puck specifically)... adjusted for inflation, the current federal minimum is LESS than what min wage workers made in 1968, and even then it was under the poverty line... that theory is a right winger brain trap: is it better that a huge proportion of the population lives in squalor so others can be a tiny bit better off than they were? naive cons would say "of course, they should 'work harder'", showing their ignorance... land of opportunity? fucking whatever... yeah get that entry level min wage job, work your way up to a $.25 raise for assistant manager, then $1 more for manager and in 20+ years you might have enough saved up after all that time with a poor quality of life to get your own franchise of the bullshit company youve apparently devoted your life to so some old money jackass can buy a royce for their 'entitled' daughter for her sweet 16... FUCK THAT

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE(Alex548 @ Apr 13 2006, 10:02 PM)

It doesn't open up any new jobs for americans. Just like the protesters you observed... you don't know what you're talking about either.

It sure would open up more opportunities for local Americans.  What state do you live in? Because you seem like you do not know the kind of employment situation we are in right now if you live in a state in which the bill is designed to help.  

Dude, I've gotten turned away from government positions and banking centers because some random person could speak Spanish yet had no skills such as I did.  I've been to said government locations and the service is terrible, I was even accused of lying once and almost did not get AHCCCS.  She didnt even know what the word Invest was.

That is the sad fact down here.  If you're Hispanic, you're prioritized over anyone else just because you speak a language.  That's simply not fair because most of the volume of people down here are illegal, companies are beefing up their Spanish speaking staff because of the influx of Spanish speaking people who otherwise wouldnt be here if they didn't hop the border.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:48 PM)

Dude, I've gotten turned away from government positions and banking centers because some random person could speak Spanish yet had no skills such as I did.  I've been to said government locations and the service is terrible, I was even accused of lying once and almost did not get AHCCCS.  She didnt even know what the word Invest was.

I believe it is possible that you might be exaggerating just a little bit.
LOL

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 04:48 PM)

That is the sad fact down here.  If you're Hispanic, you're prioritized over anyone else just because you speak a language.  That's simply not fair because most of the volume of people down here are illegal, companies are beefing up their Spanish speaking staff because of the influx of Spanish speaking people who otherwise wouldnt be here if they didn't hop the border.

REALLY now....

How about you go learn spanish and stop your whining you sound like a pathetic N***A.

Americans are becoming dumb and dumber each generation.

Survival of the fittest.

NWO BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

[Alex548]

Exactly.

I learned english... why can't you learn spanish?
If your surroundings require you to adapt, then do it.
Don't just whine about losing job opportunities because you're not bilingual. If you would take the time to learn the language, then you wouldn't be in your situation. Instead of solving the problem, you're just sitting there complaining about a race of people. Stop being so ethnocentric.

[Kira Yamoto]

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 13 2006, 11:21 PM)

I believe it is possible that you might be exaggerating just a little bit.
LOL
REALLY now....

How about you go learn spanish and stop your whining you sound like a pathetic N***A.

Americans are becoming dumb and dumber each generation.

Survival of the fittest.

NWO BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO

I'm in the United States of F'in America, I shouldnt HAVE to learn Spanish to cater to illegals.  FUCK THAT.  Don't go tell me to learn Spanish just because these people hopped the border and practically took over Glendale and Phoenix.  Why don't YOU learn spanish, wait, maybe you already know spanish because you're a hispanic yourself.

What needs to happen is that they need to learn English, which is the standard language in the US.  Learning a language is NOT easy and takes A LOT of time and money.  Which is probably why a lot of the immigrants have not learned English and a lot of us who are more educated have not learned Spanish.  But English is a requirement, so don't go tell me to learn Spanish because I shouldnt have to.

edit:

It sounds like the both of you are hispanic of origin and already know the language.  To you, Spanish is the easiest thing in the world, and that you could just go out get some books and bam you know Spanish, which is simply not true.  Language doesnt come easy for a lot of people including English.  Theres a lot of people out there in the international community that finds English to be the hardest language they've ever encountered.

You can't just simply tell somebody to go learn a language like learning how to ride a bike.   You just can't.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 13 2006, 05:35 PM)

I'm in the United States of F'in America, I shouldnt HAVE to learn Spanish to cater to illegals.  FUCK THAT.  Don't go tell me to learn Spanish just because these people hopped the border and practically took over Glendale and Phoenix.  Why don't YOU learn spanish, wait, maybe you already know spanish because you're a hispanic yourself.

What needs to happen is that they need to learn English, which is the standard language in the US.  Learning a language is NOT easy and takes A LOT of time and money.  Which is probably why a lot of the immigrants have not learned English and a lot of us who are more educated have not learned Spanish.  But English is a requirement, so don't go tell me to learn Spanish because I shouldnt have to.

edit:

It sounds like the both of you are hispanic of origin and already know the language.  To you, Spanish is the easiest thing in the world, and that you could just go out get some books and bam you know Spanish, which is simply not true.  Language doesnt come easy for a lot of people including English.  Theres a lot of people out there in the international community that finds English to be the hardest language they've ever encountered.

You can't just simply tell somebody to go learn a language like learning how to ride a bike.   You just can't.

THE United States of F'in America ARMY is hiring.  You should give em a call.  

I am not of Hipanic descent but if it makes you feel better to think I am, go right ahead. If tt will promote a more colorful dialouge.

P.S.

I speak english and french...