Print

[prominator]

i would like to know how many people care about Pro-Immigrant March
or how it affects you

[Kira Yamoto]

Yeah I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but I say I'm against the Immigration march.  Ours just happened in Phoenix, AZ. I've been watching the news on all channels possible.  What I think is that these Illegal immigrants don't deserve to have a voice in the US, let alone our state of AZ.  They crossed our boarders illegally and now they're demanding that thier voice be heard and that they not pass this bill.  They're also trying to get people who can legally vote, to vote against this bill, which I hope they won't listen.

My parents are immigrants themselves, but they were legal immigrants and have done it the hard way just like all the other legal immigrants in this country.  What does that mean for them? It's an insult that these illegals get a chance to voice their opinion and have the power to change laws through sheer mass alone, even if they can't vote.

I understand that a lot of you out there aren't from Arizona and can't comprehend how our situation is out here.  But just know that in states such as NM, CA and TX, they have all reinforced their borders and most of the illegal immigrants are pouring in through the AZ border.  More than 60% of our population in the largest cities in Phoenix, and Glendale, are made up of Hispanics, while the rest are a mix of the other races.

Because of this influx of illegal immigrants, it has directly affected our quality of life.  Why hire an Asian such as  myself, when the population is the majority of Hispanics, it would be more beneficial to hire new generation Hispanics that can speak both English AND Spanish.  Why hire an Asian such as myself, when people like me have the skills, but are overlooked because we don't know a language that we're not supposed to or required to know, like English?

The problem runs very deep, and like I said, most of you aren't from AZ so it would take A LOT to understand unless you were living here.  But just know that the government are aware of this problem now, and their issues are to pass this bill, without causing these mass movements to turn out into violent riots which could destroy the cities that we live in.  I just hope that this bill gets passed, and that these illegals understand why this is going on and that they have no rights whatsoever because they are not citizens.

[gcskate27]

^agreed... my wife is english and it took a hell of a lot to get her just to be a resident, and shes a dual major college grad looking to teach (something this stupid country needs desperatly)... just because you can walk across a border shouldnt mean that you have an easier time immigrating to this country than from EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD...

[Alex548]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 11 2006, 02:33 AM)

I have no problem with political immigrants but economic immigrants are taking away jobs that could go to people who are on benefits.   When the fluff hits the fan these guys arn't gonna stick around and help rebuild your country,  they will be off to greener pastures.  Leaving behind a country where the low income workers rely on state benefit for there main source of income.

There's plenty of farmworking jobs to go around, but people on financial assistance rather sit on their asses and get paid for it instead of performing backbreaking labor like these immigrants. The vast majority of these immigrants are doing farmwork, gardening, and contstruction. Now, how can you sit there and regurgitate the same BS that previous generations have spewed about immigrants in this country.

Let us not forget the bracero program that brought these immigrants to the U.S. specifically to work in the fields since the legal U.S. citizens did not want to dirty their hands on that type of labor intensive work. This nation was built on the blood, sweat, and tears of immigrants and we continue to rely on the immigrant workforce to place food on our tables. Despite what immigrants have done, people still continue to whine and say they're taking away jobs...

Tell them to go back to their country and guess what... that's exactly what they're doing since California, Arizona, and New Mexico were originally part of Mexico.

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 11 2006, 02:33 AM)

When the fluff hits the fan these guys arn't gonna stick around and help rebuild your country,  they will be off to greener pastures.  Leaving behind a country where the low income workers rely on state benefit for there main source of income.

Hmmm.... Do some research on the role of Mexicans in the military. You'll find some astonishing information. A disproportionately large number of Mexicans served in the U.S. military and died for a country that didn't even want them here. When times got rough, these "illegal immigrants" were on the front lines with the rest of the U.S. force and died defending our country. What can be said about a group of people who made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of their neighbors?

With that said, I can tell you I neither agree nor disagree with the marches going on around the U.S. Just like U.S. citizens, they're exercising their rights to free speech in an effort to have their voices heard. Unfortunately, their efforts usually fall upon deaf ears. The only way they will truly be heard is through the power of voting. Electing officials who sympathize with them AND have power to make change is what the politics are all about. People can scream and shout all they want, but if they don't vote... all is truly lost.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 03:59 PM)

^agreed... my wife is english and it took a hell of a lot to get her just to be a resident, and shes a dual major college grad looking to teach (something this stupid country needs desperatly)... just because you can walk across a border shouldnt mean that you have an easier time immigrating to this country than from EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD...

Actually, it seems to be the opposite. I have nothing against immigrants, but blaming everything on mexicans is just a cop out.

N*gras are lazy, S**s work to hard. Give me a break.  I thinks coloreds should tell noncoloreds to "eat a cack". Mind your own elfing house.

I thought negroes complained a f***ing lot.

The "white" boy in the "white" house seems to be the one ruining the country.

[gcskate27]

did you mean to quote me? i said abs nothing against, nor was i blaming, anyone...

imo people that divide people into 'coloreds' and 'noncoloreds' should 'eat a cack'...

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 07:54 PM)

did you mean to quote me? i said abs nothing against, nor was i blaming, anyone...

imo people that divide people into 'coloreds' and 'noncoloreds' should 'eat a cack'...

Yes, I meant to quote you, not to jump your shit but pointing out that your wife is British and her difficulties of gaining citizenship in conjunction with a mexican coming to this country.

I REALLY dont believe in immigration, not that the US is not big enough for those that want to come but it is politicized.  

A wealthy Arab/(Insert any other Oil Country) can come here because he/she is buddy buddy with Dubya. While his cousins plot to kill Americans on their vacations here.

You are missing the bigger picture.

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 07:54 PM)

imo people that divide people into 'coloreds' and 'noncoloreds' should 'eat a cack'...

A Cack for a Cack

[gcskate27]

QUOTE(jha'dhur @ Apr 11 2006, 09:06 PM)

Yes, I meant to quote you, not to jump your shit but pointing out that your wife is British and her difficulties of gaining citizenship in conjunction with a mexican coming to this country.

I REALLY dont believe in immigration, not that the US is not big enough for those that want to come but it is politicized.  

A wealthy Arab/(Insert any other Oil Country) can come here because he/she is buddy buddy with Dubya. While his cousins plot to kill Americans on their vacations here.

You are missing the bigger picture.
A Cack for a Cack

i missing the bigger picture? youre missinterpreting whatever picture youre seeing.. care to elaborate as to who i was blaming? it certainly wasnt mexicans... if you actually read and comprehended the post it was the US immigration policy as a whole: if youre from another country other than mexico youve got to prove you have value over here, which certainly isnt what this country was built upon... so stick to it one way or the other...

the US is a fucked up country thats only seems to be getting worse, declaring illegals felons or kicking them out wont do any good and is a huge scapegoat for social ills... medical help? what about help for a huge population of actual citizens who arent poor enough or old enough for medicare/caid? should they just be fucked because they fall into a certain income bracket?

most people who dont believe in immigration and naively think that illegals are stealing jobs/are a huge drain on society(in comparison with many other ills), also naively think that the US is the end all be all greatest nation on earth: and if you think that, youre too far gone to be bothered with anyway...

and youre colored/noncolored comment speaks volumes about your preconcieved notions as its automatically an 'us vs them' mentality no mater which side youre on...

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(gcskate27 @ Apr 11 2006, 10:39 PM)

i missing the bigger picture? youre missinterpreting whatever picture youre seeing.. care to elaborate as to who i was blaming? it certainly wasnt mexicans... if you actually read and comprehended the post it was the US immigration policy as a whole: if youre from another country other than mexico youve got to prove you have value over here, which certainly isnt what this country was built upon... so stick to it one way or the other...

the US is a fucked up country thats only seems to be getting worse, declaring illegals felons or kicking them out wont do any good and is a huge scapegoat for social ills... medical help? what about help for a huge population of actual citizens who arent poor enough or old enough for medicare/caid? should they just be fucked because they fall into a certain income bracket?

most people who dont believe in immigration and naively think that illegals are stealing jobs/are a huge drain on society(in comparison with many other ills), also naively think that the US is the end all be all greatest nation on earth: and if you think that, youre too far gone to be bothered with anyway...

and youre colored/noncolored comment speaks volumes about your preconcieved notions as its automatically an 'us vs them' mentality no mater which side youre on...

Didn't say you were blaming anyone.

I just feel Brits, Spains,Africans, Serbs CANADIANS, should all stay the fuck out until we get our shit together.

The LOU DOBBS, welfare state mentallity is just simply "racist".

That same senntiment has been used with every immigrant group from Italians, "Jews", Irish, Chineses, Africans, and now mexicans.

It is like a fill in the "fucker" you hate form.

I think you only demonstrate your low Inteligent Qoutant when you surrender yourself to such instituitionailzed demagogary.

QUOTE

For a start illegals don't have to go through various security checks, in theory you could have bin laden conducting his campain of terror in your back yard while protesting that he/she should be allowed to work and live in your country.

When illegals are given citizenship they will wise up to the benefit state and they will milk it for all it's worth. I'm not speaking hypothetically I see what they get off the welfare state on a daily basis. In alot of cases they get more benefits and perks than someone who has lived and worked here all of there life. That is wrong IMO and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone.

The fact is illegals do take low income jobs away from our citizens and legal immigrants, this is partly our fault for allowing people to live a comfortable life on the welfare state. If able citizens had to work partly or mostly for there benefit we would not need half of the economic illegals to fill in the gaps.

Country's such as ours will always need a influx of foreign workers at some point but the question you gotta ask yourself is. Would you prefer a nation full of illegals or would you prefer immigrants that have gone through the various security checks before they are allowed to stay in your country?

I'm all for immigrants living and working in my country but when I hire someone I never take the person at face value untill I have done a little research on that person. If you don't look into the back ground, work history of someone you could in theory be hiring anyone from a terrorist to peodophile.

The all so typical scare "white" folks tactic.

1) Funny all the terroists caught at the border have been at the CANADIAN border.

2) Given that going from illegal to legal status comprises taking a test and paying a processing fee and VOILA your an american. (no lie detectors, background checks or physic probe)  Whats your point.
I work with "new" americans that hold security clearances and national security positions that are straight off the boat. Those are they guys you should worry about.

3) All our pedhofilles are home grown noe need to import any.

P.S.
@Arvadeen
Just how much of your hard earned tax money should go to creating this large "Immigrant Checker" beaurocracy.

[puckSR]

QUOTE

If the US Government spent less time researching, developing mini nukes that will never be used they might be able to put that money to use and hire more body's to patrol your borders.  

I hate this statement.....
I really hate this statement....
Why?

You have absolutely no real idea how useful current military technology is going to be in future military conflicts.  Unless you have suddenly gained insight into the future.  We should never abandon research, of any type.  Research makes humanity better in the end, and it fuels our economy, and it gives the human race some smug satisfaction when people ask us how we are any different from other animals.  

What if we did invest the money to hire enoguh people to constantly stand shoulder-to-shoulder along all of our national borders?  Well...then I guess the illegals would stop coming through the land borders.  They would all jump on boats and start coming into our vast coastline.  Our vast, almost impossible to defend coastline.  So now we have hired millions of people to constantly stand vigil at our borders, while the immigrants either dig tunnels or take boats.  NOT VERY HELPFUL.

Let me explain it this way....any time that you see a solution that seems painfully simple...your normally wrong.
Killing Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden seem like easy ways to crush terrorism.  I will let you watch the news, but it looks like removing Saddam didnt have a "great" result.

---jha'dhur

I actually agree with you on some points....unfortunately....you replied to 2 different people in the same comment.
gkskate wasnt the one opining about the welfare state
Avarden was the one with the "welfare state" comments....

QUOTE

I just feel Brits, Spains,Africans, Serbs CANADIANS, should all stay the fuck out until we get our shit together.

I think your completely wrong...and let me explain why....

Several smaller countries have dealt with terrorism recently.  Spain, france, and Great Britian.  They have easier borders to control, and less diverse populations(racial profiling works a lil better in England).  Yet they cannot stop terrorism.  Why?  They dont have their shit together?

These other countries illustrate an important point....these terrorists are committed.  They know what they are doing, they will find a way in....

it is incredibly naive to believe that we can "stop" them....if we cannot stop them from entering the country...then it is ridiculous to impede the regular travel of everyone else when we will not be successful in stopping terrorists....

We are entering a global economy...open borders are incredibly helpful, and if you take this isolationist stance....we are going to wind up left behind

[Alex548]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 02:56 AM)

For a start illegals don't have to go through various security checks, in theory you could have bin laden conducting his campain of terror in your  back yard while protesting that he/she should be allowed to work and live in your country.  

When illegals are given citizenship they will wise up to the benefit state and they will milk it for all it's worth.  I'm not speaking hypothetically I see what they get off the welfare state on a daily basis.  In alot of cases they get more benefits and perks than someone who has lived and worked here all of there life.  That is wrong IMO and I'm sorry if I have offended anyone.

The fact is illegals do take low income jobs away from our citizens and legal immigrants, this is partly our fault for allowing people to live a comfortable life on the welfare state.  If able citizens had to work partly or mostly for there benefit we would not need half of the economic illegals to fill in the gaps.

Country's such as ours will always need a influx of foreign workers at some point but the question you gotta ask yourself is.  Would you prefer a nation full of illegals or would you prefer immigrants that have gone through the various security checks before they are allowed to stay in your country?

I'm all for immigrants living and working in my country but when I hire someone I never take the person at face value untill I have done a little research on that person.  If you don't look into the back ground, work history of someone you could in theory be hiring anyone from a terrorist to peodophile.

Do some research buddy. The majority of the US population on welfare (and other benefits) are largely white. Why, because they'd rather sit on their asses and collect welfare instead of working. Mexicans, on the other hand are well known for being hard workers and it shows.

We've had tons of illegal immigrants in this country... and tons of them have eventually acquired citizenship. What happened after that? They became an integral part of the U.S., they've paid their share of taxes, and they continue to help the economy.

Do you really believe they become citizens, then jump on the welfare system? If so, take a very close look at yourself and your ethnocentrism because you obviously do not see the bigger picture. Spend some time researching and see for yourself.

How do I know this information? Not only do I have a minor in Chicano Studies, but I'm also a former president of a rather large Chicano student organization. Believe me... I've definitely done my homework when it comes to immigration issues.  

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 07:28 AM)

@jha'dhur
We have enough problems with our native, immigrant population as it is with out adding more numbers into the equation.  

Adding More numbers? At issue is whether we should allow those illegal immigrants who are CURRENTLY RESIDING IN THE US to become legal citizens. This has absolutely nothing to do with bringing more immigrants into the country. We're not "adding more numbers into the equation."

[Kira Yamoto]

You know what, making Illegals that are here NOW, legal citizens is like a slap in the face to other people that do want to get in, and some people who never can (but have the money or whatever to make the move) just because they jumped the border and suddenly amassing a huge crowd in order to win over politicians thru mass alone.  They don't even have US/Citizenship rights for gods sake.  It's their numbers alone that will push us into making a decision.

I do hope they pass the bill, but I hope that they can come to some sort of conclusion to those that are already here.  Something along the lines of allowing them a chance to become citizen just like how every other person that came here legally had to do when they applied for citizenship.

And to reply to a post above about Mexicans serving in the US Military, to serve in the Military you have to be a US citizen.  Now I can't speak for the entire race and say who's family came from a legit background or not, nevertheless, they are LEGAL citizens in service for our country.  I have no qualms about that.  But something has to be done about immigration because its' getting out of hand.  Eventually all of Southern US population will be majority of Mexicans due to illegal immigration.

It's not just because AZ, CA and such were once part of Mexico, but do some research on population in each respective cities and you'll see a huge increase due to illegal immigration.  While some states have tightened security, ours are only starting to because it IS out of hand.

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 09:28 AM)

The scare tactic is very real in today’s world, times have changed  and we must change with them.  I’m not saying we should give up our freedoms if a politician shouts terrorism I’m saying we should be careful who we allow into our country’s.  We have enough problems with our native, immigrant population as it is with out adding more numbers into the equation.  

Maybe, in your world attacking a country whose leader didnt even control the entire country but was the Abab Hitler makes sense. How exactly was Saddam supposed to get his "imaginary" nuke over here. RUSSIA still is the greatest threat to US security.

But N. Korea posseses intercontinental balistic missle and nuclear weapons.

Iran is enriching Uranium to make bombs  and possesses a significant missle program.

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 09:28 AM)

@jha'dhur
If I visit the US I need to provide documents, finger prints, and asked 101 questions.  I guess I’d have to go through a similair process if I was to apply for citizenship so why you think it’s acceptable for illegals to by pass all of these measures is beyond me.

Maybe every single american should be fingerprinted and submit DNA.  Look at the homeland security SOB/pedophille with access to sensitive information.
The thing is the beuarocracy you suggest wouldnt deter terroists.

Would this have stopped McVeigh?

Would this have stopped 9/11?

What about student visa's.

As far as I know your wife could be a terroist.

Should all foreign nationals submit to a federal anal probe?

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Apr 12 2006, 09:28 AM)

If the US Government spent less time researching, developing mini nukes that will never be used they might be able to put that money to use and hire more body's to patrol your borders.

I would think if your governmennt wasnt spending 5-9 billion/month in Iraq. The american qualtiy of life would be better for all.

P.S. Its not the Mexicans that are driving down wages its the Republican/Business Party that is bought and sold to special interest that HAS NOT RAISED MIN WAGE IN 10 YEARS.

But they still dont miss a vote to raise their salaries.

[Alex548]

QUOTE(Kira Yamoto @ Apr 12 2006, 03:16 PM)

And to reply to a post above about Mexicans serving in the US Military, to serve in the Military you have to be a US citizen.

RESEARCH!

Do you think I'm referring to current military policy? NO.

In previous major world wars, the US asked for help from illegal immigrants. In exchange for helping defend our country, the U.S. promised to aid them in becoming legal residents. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the immigrants who accepted this offer died in combat.

[chorizo1]

look http://immigration.a...tCitizenIss.htm

it was allowed, and there ARE non-citizens in the Military. One from my area who was in the military trying to get a citizenship was one of the first Killed in Iraq.