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[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Mar 8 2006, 03:07 PM)

true......someone is dead in the case of the woman

and if they give this young man a harsher sentence than the woman.....I will agree with you that it is odd

unfortunately you are quoting "bail"
this is based on the flight risk, the severity of the crime, and the danger the individual poses to the general public.

I would assume that a young foreign student, who randomly tried to kill a group of pedestrians is a greater flight risk and a greater risk to the general community than a woman who got mad and murdered her husband.

If you disagree....please explain why?

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I would assume that a young foreign student, who randomly tried to kill a group of pedestrians is a greater flight risk and a greater risk to the general community than a woman who got mad and murdered her husband.

Take his passport, he attends public school so his family probably isnt the wealthiest. Where is he going to go.

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a greater risk to the general community than a woman who got mad and murdered her husband.

A killer is a killer, but since he isnt a killer point is irrelevant. The bail is highly excessive and I would argue keeping him in jail would benifit him more than community(so no hillbilly could attempt reprisal)

But I guess in your world, a wealthy white person that can go get money jump on a plane and be around the world isnt a flight risk, when the Mercedes she ran her husband over has higher monetary value than her bail posted.

[sarcasm]I see your logic.    [/sarcasm]

QUOTE

unfortunately you are quoting "bail"
this is based on the flight risk, the severity of the crime, and the danger the individual poses to the general public.

No,
I am insinuating that 30K is a slap in the face of the husbands family.
I am insinuating that prosecutors have to much power. She deservingly could have faced death penalty given a motivated DA.

Given the offense of the student if it were not the fact he was Iranian in todays climate he would not neccesary face prison sentence with a decent lawyer, but of course being a sand negro they will attempt to make an example of him.  This is agravated assault and battery, not premeditated agravated murder. <- Death Penalty eligible

He probably will get more time than the white bitch.

[CattyKid]

QUOTE(PhatIrishBastard @ Mar 8 2006, 09:47 AM)

Some one is DEAD

But you have to realize, this woman got the punishment she did because she discovered her husband was having an affair.  She was betrayed by the person she should be trusting the most.  I do agree, she should get more than 10 years good behavior, but nowhere NEAR life/death penalty.  Sure, someone is dead and that is sad.  I'm sure you could plead a little temporary insanity on this one, which I'm sure she at least suffered from a little.

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(CattyKid @ Mar 8 2006, 06:58 PM)

But you have to realize, this woman got the punishment she did because she discovered her husband was having an affair.  She was betrayed by the person she should be trusting the most.  I do agree, she should get more than 10 years good behavior, but nowhere NEAR life/death penalty.  Sure, someone is dead and that is sad.  I'm sure you could plead a little temporary insanity on this one, which I'm sure she at least suffered from a little.

Dude your opinion is your opinion but the letter of the law is the letter of the law.

In most states if you do A, B and C they are all felonies and someone dies in the process, that makes you eligible for the death penalty.

Nothing against her, nothing for the husband but it is a glaring discrepency. Maybe I watch foxnews and cnbc too much but 30K for premeditated, murder and essentially attempted murder of mistress. Then the Iranian smuck gets mutimillion dollar bail with not one serious injury. Fishy...

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I'm sure you could plead a little temporary insanity on this one, which I'm sure she at least suffered from a little.

Mrs Debra Lafave,

Now the defense attorney, as well as prosecutor both believe that this school teacher was insane and does not deserve jail time, for essentially raping a young school boy.  

No jail, HUH

RACE CARD

plus the all new powerful

VAGINAL CARD

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(PhatIrishBastard @ Mar 9 2006, 04:00 PM)

plus the all new powerful

VAGINAL CARD

isnt that what i said in the first place? the whole "race" issue is completely moot in both of these cases, its the fact that they are women that kept them both from severe penalties

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(lordvader129 @ Mar 9 2006, 05:29 PM)

isnt that what i said in the first place? the whole "race" issue is completely moot in both of these cases, its the fact that they are women that kept them both from severe penalties

I am sure the vaginal possesion is 4/10's the law, but to dismiss race perceptions is simply naive. I only mentioned two women, Scott Peterson was wrapped in the race card during his melodrama.

People are stuck on OJ half of the Kennedy family (men) have beaten some pretty serious wraps simply because.

The 2 womens cases are just so glaryingly apparrant.

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(PhatIrishBastard @ Mar 10 2006, 01:17 PM)

I am sure the vaginal possesion is 4/10's the law, but to dismiss race perceptions is simply naive. I only mentioned two women, Scott Peterson was wrapped in the race card during his melodrama.

People are stuck on OJ half of the Kennedy family (men) have beaten some pretty serious wraps simply because.

The 2 womens cases are just so glaryingly apparrant.

well, as i said before in this thread there have only be 10 women put to death in the last 30 years, of those, 9 were white, 1 was black, that is about the LEAST racist cross section your ever going to find anywhere in this country, i think its safe to say as far as female criminal go, skin color is nothing, their all pink inside

[Wong Hung Lo]

QUOTE(PhatIrishBastard @ Mar 9 2006, 05:00 PM)

Mrs Debra Lafave,

Now the defense attorney, as well as prosecutor both believe that this school teacher was insane and does not deserve jail time, for essentially raping a young school boy.  

No jail, HUH

RACE CARD

plus the all new powerful

VAGINAL CARD

You can't rape the willing. Heck if that kid wasn't bragging and kept his mouth shut, he would still be on the gravy train. Any guy that says that he wouldn't hop on that is either a liar or would rather be on a fishing trip on Brokebutt Mountain.

And don't forget Pamela Rogers Turner.

You damn kids don't know how well you got it. All my teachers in in highschool were hags.  

I now introduce you to the all new powerful
PENIS CARD



Men's Rights Group Eyes Child Support Stay

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(Wong Hung Lo @ Mar 10 2006, 04:48 PM)  

You can't rape the willing. Heck if that kid wasn't bragging and kept his mouth shut, he would still be on the gravy train. Any guy that says that he wouldn't hop on that is either a liar or would rather be on a fishing trip on Brokebutt Mountain.

And don't forget Pamela Rogers Turner.

You damn kids don't know how well you got it. All my teachers in in highschool were hags.  

I now introduce you to the all new powerful
PENIS CARD
Men's Rights Group Eyes Child Support Stay

Well she beat the rap, looks like vaginal card wins

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Mar 24 2006, 04:16 PM)  

nah....i would say that the "insensitivity to the concerns of the victim" card wins again.

She beat the rap because the kid dropped the charges....she wasnt acquitted...
originally they attempted to plea bargain the case....because the victim did not want to go to court
the only plea bargain that could be reached required no jail time for lafavre

the judge dismissed the plea because of the lack of jail time...which, in turn, caused the victim to drop the case.

This is a fairly common, but rather delicate issue with rape victims.
Often times the humiliation of a public trial is worse than the humiliation of the rape....especially in the case of statutory rape....when there may have been little to no humiliation during the actual act.

We cannot have someone stand trial without an accusor, and we cannot force people to bring charges against someone.....so until we solve this problem....this will happen a lot.

#1 She confessed num nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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She beat the rap because the kid dropped the charges....she wasnt acquitted...
originally they attempted to plea bargain the case....because the victim did not want to go to court
the only plea bargain that could be reached required no jail time for lafavre

Only the prosecutor can drop "criminal" charges.

#2 He could have been compelled to testify, plus the kids "direct" admissions to police officers were enough alone.  To hang her.

Man she must have sucked a lot of c*cks to beat this rap.

One Word

QUOTE

KOBE......

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Mar 25 2006, 04:51 AM)  

hmmm.....

remember this?

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Sound familiar?

The statements of the boy are inadmissible in court unless the witness repeats the statements.  Otherwise...this is simpy hearsay.  No prosecutor is going to continue pursuing a crime when the accusor "drops charges".  It would be ridiculous....i suppose that you could force the young man to testify....but that would most likely lead to perjury if he had already indicated that he didnt want to pursue the matter any further.  This of course would become an instance of turning the victim of the crime into a victim of the legal proceedings.

Face it....the reason that this woman got off was probably a combination of her rather attractive appearance, her mental disorder...and the fact that no 15 year old boy wants to publicly admit that he regrets having sex with his hot teacher.  

But remember....she still got punished....she just got off light because a stupid judge threw out a plea bargain....

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In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Sound familiar?

I am sure you realize that we do convict defendants in "absentia" here in the US.

Secondly, it is not unheard of to play tapes of dead people our read transcripts from confession and interviews that is why they are taped and signed documents.

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The statements of the boy are inadmissible in court unless the witness repeats the statements.  Otherwise...this is simpy hearsay.  No prosecutor is going to continue pursuing a crime when the accusor "drops charges".  It would be ridiculous....i suppose that you could force the young man to testify....but that would most likely lead to perjury if he had already indicated that he didnt want to pursue the matter any further.  This of course would become an instance of turning the victim of the crime into a victim of the legal proceedings.

Hope you arent in law school, that is totally false.

Hearsay is when I confess to you and you tell your mom and your mom tells police. Your mom did not directly observe the confession, hence "hearsay"

The police directly observed, taped and documented the childs statements, as well as hers.

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What you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

Sound familiar?

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No prosecutor is going to continue pursuing a crime when the accusor "drops charges".

"Criminal" (i.e. felonies) charges can not be dropped by a witness, once charges are filed by a prosecutor the only result is dismissal by prosecutor/judge, trial or plea bargin.

Get that through your skull.

[jha'dhur]

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i will readily admit that I am not a law student...and i dont pretend to be one

my apologies, you seem to be rather well-informed on the topic.
I was not aware that they had a taped confession by the teacher
I was aware that they had a sworn statement by the accusor...but I was under the impression that he was completely capable of retracting his sworn statement...in which case it would not be admissiable in court? If I am incorrect please let me know

No need to apolgize, It just appeared from your statements that you were misinformed. This case is everything America tried to make OJ case into.

Court TV Overview

I am sort of a crime documentary GEEK. Not the BS like CSI and sensationalized shows loosely based on fact. As much as Nancy Grace annoys me I watch heer show nearly daily. I love A&E first 48, American Justice and Cold Case Files.

This case has only exposed the systematic double standards of our criminal system. A friend of mine did a few presentations in ethics about similar topics "race and justice" he was a black dude going to law school and he presented some convincing crime statistics on the topic.

And the "just because I am black"  cliche if you give it any credence must you conversely give credence to the "just because I am white cliche" also. You see it more and more when you watch 24 hour news channels.

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Can you point me towards an example of a trial where the accusor retracted his accusation and the trial continued? I thought this was a regular problem with rape trials....such as the publicized Kobe Bryant trial. The victim refuses to testify against defendent...even going as far as to retract their charges...is this correct?

The extortion of Kobe Bryant probably isnt a good example. I dont care much for him, but he got raped. Upon serious review the prosecutors found out that the broad was a lying tramp that wanted to get paid
basically a hooker. But she got her check, wife got a new diamond everyone is happy.

Ga Rape Trial

This is fairly common, take for instance: There was a black kid in Georgia, who was convicted of a rape related charge, and sent to prison for having sex with a white classmate. The young girl was forced to lie on the stand by her father to save his pride, everyone knew the girl liked the kid he was a popular jock and an honor student. Because he had an early birthday and was an 18 year old senior he was convicted of a lesser criminal offense.

None of the white kids that knew both of them and count atest to the situation told the truth in court because of fear of retribution from parents.

The only reason kid got out of jail was because Oprah Winfrey held the prosecutors feet to the fire. Black kid lost his scholarship, and a year of his life. The black kid had been adopted by whites years before, they were the only people in the town to stand by him.



P.S.
If it had not been for the "white" race card Beth Holloway would probably have her daughters body for burial.  Ask any legal proffesional, Police 101 dictates find the last person she was with bring them to the station immediately and get a statement from them.  Before they can destroy evidence and get their stories straight.  

P.S.S
To take the security gaurds into custody based upon a lie that was quickly exposed via the hotel security video is telling.

@ PHAT BASTARD great insightful topic, some dont like to look in the mirror, and simply blame others for their shortcomings (black & white) it will be our ondoing.

[damam]

And which card exactly did this guy use (on the left)

after he admitted to brutally raping two boys ages 5 and 12 over a three year period and got off with just probation?

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(damam @ Mar 28 2006, 11:05 AM)  

And which card exactly did this guy use (on the left)

after he admitted to brutally raping two boys ages 5 and 12 over a three year period and got off with just probation?

He must be a priest   ... In the state I now reside in you can get more time for littering than for  raping a boy.

How about a link. Some background  

QUOTE

Can you point me towards an example of a trial where the accusor retracted his accusation and the trial continued? I thought this was a regular problem with rape trials....such as the publicized Kobe Bryant trial. The victim refuses to testify against defendent...even going as far as to retract their charges...is this correct?

Are you referring to specifically rapes or criminal proceedings in general witness recanting is quite a frequent occurence, especially In politically motivated prosecutions. Plus rapes are difficult to prove under ordinary circumstances. He said She said.

I dont see your point, if someone confesses to a crime what need is there for victim testimony or impact statements. From the prosecution standpoint.

You as usual are haggling semantics. Plaintiffs as well as defendants dont have to testify.
Hence the footbal player Ray Caruth that had his girlfriend killed, her emergency room statements as well as 911 tapes were admitted to trial after her death.

911 tapes of the dead are always admitted. Confrontation in court is up to the judges discretion. Hence the Max Factor aire convicted in absentia when he skipped out of trial, and was hunted down by "DAWG"

[jha'dhur]

QUOTE

Church members have said they saw nothing but a loving relationship between husband and wife.

The media is already wrapping her in this virginal veil of victimization. In a few more days I am sure they will drag the dead husbands name through the mud like the Texas mercedes murderer.

The reason she did it.

Evil
Sick
Dirty
Back
Stabbing
B******

No more no less.

Shot through the heart and your to blame, You give
LOVE
a
bad
name.
[chorus]
a
bad
name.
[chorus]

[PhatIrishBastard]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Mar 29 2006, 01:32 AM)  

This is more the semantics....I dont doubt the issue of confrontation...or accepting sworn statements...
Im questioning the statement that a DA could continue a trial after the accusor retracted their statement...

The reason this is a big deal?
The Constitution!!!

You dont have to be face to face....but your accusor must be known...
what does this mean?
It means that you cannot be accused anonymously...the court may protect the accusors identity for security reasons...but the accusor is never totally anonymous...

also...how the hell do you 2 idiots keep getting confused on "in absentia"
thats where you try someone without them being present..
not when you use testimony from a witness on record, despite the witness recanting..

BTW...i dont haggle semantics...
You blowhards are so full of shit...someone has to set you straight....
P.S....did you ever figure out the difference between bail for a terrorist and bail for a jilted lover?

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911 tapes of the dead are always admitted. Confrontation in court is up to the judges discretion. Hence the Max Factor aire convicted in absentia when he skipped out of trial, and was hunted down by "DAWG"

Defendant not present, I guess you didnt read that part 3 posts ago.
Ray Caruth, victim not present because she died.

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This is more the semantics....I dont doubt the issue of confrontation...or accepting sworn statements...
Im questioning the statement that a DA could continue a trial after the accusor retracted their statement...

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The reason this is a big deal?

People change and withdraw their statements quite frequently, you ever hear of the MOB, people are intimidated, mistaken, biased or just dead wrong.

The Constitution!!!

Stop being so naive when did the constitution have anything to do with the real world, the constitution is a document of convience of your current president.

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I am done with you CockSR.

Same old shit, different day.

@ jha' this dude is a douche bag, he does this in every thread, he will lead every topic astray that he doesnt
start in an attempt to showcase his intelligence. He used to stalk my coworker/roommate as well as another guy who frequents board.

I will not stoop to the level he does of PM'ing other members/mods to persuade there personal feelings about someone else to bolster your "nick" So I will post it for you to read CockSr.

Good Luck, jha wonderful ensight and I look forward to chiming in on "your" replies...