Print

[thewickedjester]

QUOTE

This sounds a lot more like a cry for an adoption than an abortion.

Not neccissarily, in the end the woman/girl shouldn't have had sex or taken measures to prevent it in the first place. But if it happens, then we have to consider how many kids are waiting for adoption.

Don't get me wrong, I would much rather see a child born and then adopted rather than aborted, but this isnt a disscussion which is better, its a disscussion on the morality of abortion as an act.

QUOTE

So, because she's a shitty mother, then that kid should have died to make her life easier?

Look, in my example, I've met this girl, she is a shitty mother. Its not that she's balancing her social life and her child, she dumps the kid with her mother (the childs grandmother) and doesnt show up for days, when she does show up shes either drunk or stoned off her ass. The grandmother (my mothers freind) is thankfully a good mother and takes very good care of her, but the troubled partying child is about to move out to Colorado (or some state out West) with the father who abuses her, does drugs, drinks HEAVILY, and will probably do some of the same to the child. I dont think thats a good way for a child to grow up in. But the 19 year old wont give her up for adoption. So this child is going to grow up having a pretty shitty childhood.

So whats the alternative there? Granted, she will eventually have the child taken away from her (someone has to call child services, hell I'm comtemplating doing it right now) and she gets addopted, most likely to a loving family. But how long will that take? What mental damage will this kid grow up thinking?

I dont like abortion, I think its horrible, but I do think that its the mothers chioce in the end. Whatever reason, selfish, rape, whatever, its the mothers choice.

[puckSR]

I do like one idea, make abortion a flat out crime.

Now hear me out on this, if the reason for the abortion is justified, then by all means you have nothing to worry about.  Even if the judge is a conservative, and rules against you for personal reasons, you could always appeal.

I mention this because i would wager the vast majority of abortions are completely elective.  I know about rape, and other special situations, but honestly how often are they an issue.  This is approaching the issue in the wrong direction, you dont use the exceptions to justify the rule.  You justify the rule, and then make exceptions.  

I, for one, am completely against abortion.
I do however respect the opinion of the courts, unlike a bunch of these American hating bastards.
I dont think that it will now be completely outlawed, but i dont see why the pro-choice people fear concessions.  

No one can really justify partial birth abortion, except to say that if you banned it you were on your way to stopping all abortions.  Thats not a good enough reason to kill.

As far as the bad mother scenario goes, a flaw.  She could have wanted the child and still been a bad mother.  I dont really think her actions indicate anything but someone who is irresponsible.  Thats a bad thing, her being a mother and all, but its not justification for abortion by a long shot

[puckSR]

i dont know where you get that?
Basically pro-choice people have said with their support of partial birth abortion that abortion is just one act, there are not any variants or degrees.  This is obviously not true, since even if you treat it as a medical procedure, there are still degrees of necessity.

Almost all partial birth abortions occur because of what is perceived as defects with the baby.  
They are not childbirth preventitive(since you have to give birth anyway)
they arent due to rape(almost all of those occur in the first trimester),
and they arent protective of the mother(once again the child actually could come out alive or dead, its not going to effect her health in any different way)

Now what if we allowed them all to be born, then if the child was defective, we euthenised it.  This would be a much better solution, since there exists a chance that children destroyed through partial birth abortion wont be defective.  So the pro-life people win because they save a baby.  The pro-choice people win because they get to destroy it if its messed up.



Wait i cant say that, its barbaric, it completely immoral, but it actually would be more logical than a partial birth abortion.  So why cant a concession be made on that?  Just because someone doesnt want to kill a fully developed baby doesnt mean that they will support the banning of abortion.  It just means that they arent so blinded by having to choose sides.

[Arvarden]

Euthanasia is dangerous game especially if you are on about murdering a defective new born child.

[puckSR]

im not, im against killing babies

im just saying it makes more sense then some forms of abortion

[EverestX]

...Um what makes since is having a pill that sterilizes men.  The government apparently has something similar to that but hte fda wont approve it.. Since the early 80s..  Here is is 20 years later and we still cant have it I say bull shit..

Secondly, I don't care what anyone thinks.  Make abortions illegal, cause , jsut like drugs, sex, and Nuclear weapons, someone will still sell them. And you knwo what I woudl DAMN SURE buy them.  Everyone acts like this is such a horrible crime, and that so many people get hurt and blah blah blah.. what a bunch of shmucks.  What really hurts people is having to many mouths to feed or kids tht grow up with no one to care for them, or parents who have kids that cant afford them.  

I say, screw govt. supplied condoms. Where's my govt supplied abortions, or sterilization for me, or better than all that, Just lay me down on a table, and give me a visectimy.

[deftonesmx17]

[Jaguar God Imix]

Yeah, but that is somewhat of a false analogy, but is still correct because it really is no her body it is a dependent being with its own set of 46 chromosomes, which are only 50% the mother's.

But there is no real difference to me killing the unborn and the born.

Another thing:

Isnt kinda messed that you cant kill a convicted murderer butyou canan innocent child?

[Statecowboy]

  OK, enough religion.  

Also, the "it's my body" argument can be held for the baby too, who speaks for it?  

Do you guys remember when that psycho whore killed that pregnant lady and stole her "fetus", which turns out as soon as she cut it out of the mom's belly became a "baby"?  Well what's the difference?  

I don't believe I can force my opinion on other's however.  This is why we live in a demcoracy.  People may vote on laws the way their convictions lead them.  This means that if one of my friend's are pro-choice...which a lot are, I won't hate them, just disagree with them.

[EverestX]

Yeah murder isn't the christain way, jesus just told them to slaughter thousands that wouldn't convert on the crusades.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(EverestX @ Jul 22 2005, 02:12 PM)

Yeah murder isn't the christain way, jesus just told them to slaughter thousands that wouldn't convert on the crusades.

[pepsik]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Jul 22 2005, 08:17 PM)

You might want to research the Crusades...............and the difference between Christianity and Catholicism 

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(puckSR @ Jul 22 2005, 02:38 PM)

Yeah lets do that

[puckSR]

good response

all i was saying is that catholics are christians too
since catholicism teaches that Jesus was the messiah.  They also think Jesus=God, just like you.  I didnt say christians were catholics, i said catholics were christians

[Statecowboy]

QUOTE(EverestX @ Jul 22 2005, 02:12 PM)

Yeah murder isn't the christain way, jesus just told them to slaughter thousands that wouldn't convert on the crusades.