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[schandtatmensch]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Mar 10 2005, 11:11 AM)

Tony, you shot an un armed man?  Are you fucking stupid?

[pepsik]

[K98]

QUOTE

Tony, you shot an un armed man? Are you fucking stupid?

You do know that if this person decides to pay you a visit again he/she will prolly be packing because of your stupid stunt?

Letting joe public aquire fire arms for personnal protection, be it for home use or other is plain lunacy. Most petty criminals would rather be in and out of your property in a flash without causing harm to the owner and themselves.

If I was a burglar and I knew the home owner had fire arms I would turn up to the job carrying a firearm and if the home owner popped his/her head round the door they can wave goodbye to there face.

Slippery slope? I think so.

Btw Tony Martin served time for shooting an un armed burgular in the back, if he shot him in the face or the chest he could have claimed self defence and he wouldn't have served anytime.

I read that twice and I still can't believe what you said. It's ok to let burgulars steal your valuables and let them get out the quickly. To help them maybe I should post up a floor plan and locations of all the expensive items on the frontdoor so they can get in and out without hassle. Hell I should put all my stuff on the front lawn and let people steal it.

I think if a criminal knew a home owner was armed he would go somewhere else even if he had a gun. Then that leads me to the fact what he is armed and you arent what do you do? If the homeowner was a female then maybe the burgular is lookign to rape her so you think it's ok for her to not resist and let the guy go about his business?

Tony Martin shot the guy after the third night in a row his house was broken into, and the cops two times beofre did nothing.

[Tony42077]

QUOTE(pepsik @ Mar 10 2005, 07:58 PM)

Tony, your proffesor told you that because most states consider it self defense when an unknown assailant is within a person's home.

[me_007x]

Regarding the Tony Martin case, I think he was technically charged with owning an unlawful shotgun 'cause his licence had been revoked, this then led on to the other charges. It didn't matter that he shot the scum in the back, had he unloaded at point blank in his face the results would well have been the same. This is one of the absurd things regarding UK law, it is not legal to own a hand gun yet you can apply for a licence to own just about any shot gun or rifle (including machine guns).

Defending one's property has also recently come back in to the forefront of UK politics with the main political parties arguing over the definition of "reasonable force" in the event someone breaks into your house. Personally, and everyone I've spoken to about this, has said virtually the same thing, someone breaks into my house then all bets are off. I sleep with a knife within easy reach of my hand, and a few friends have admitted privately that they have similar weapons close by.

It would have been interesting in the Tony Martin case if he had smacked the low life around the head with an unloaded shot gun and killed him.

[damam]

QUOTE(K98 @ Mar 10 2005, 08:00 AM)

I read that twice and I still can't believe what you said. It's ok to let burgulars steal your valuables and let them get out the quickly. To help them maybe I should post up a floor plan and locations of all the expensive items on the frontdoor so they can get in and out without hassle. Hell I should put all my stuff on the front lawn and let people steal it.
. . . If the homeowner was a female then maybe the burgular is lookign to rape her so you think it's ok for her to not resist and let the guy go about his business?

Their military doesnt role over, but their citizens sure do.  I think socialism has made them a weeker populas, but I could be wrong.  I had a british friend once tell me that they were comfortable with the arrangement of someone occasionally robbing them, and then collecting the insurance, so long as nobody got hurt.  He was also comfortable with this arrangement as it applied to convienience stores, department stores, etc as well.  Then a couple weeks later he was complaining about how his insurance was so high.  He absolutely failed to see the connection.

QUOTE(me_007x)

Defending one's property has also recently come back in to the forefront of UK politics with the main political parties arguing over the definition of "reasonable force" in the event someone breaks into your house. Personally, and everyone I've spoken to about this, has said virtually the same thing, someone breaks into my house then all bets are off. I sleep with a knife within easy reach of my hand, and a few friends have admitted privately that they have similar weapons close by.

glad to see not all of you brits are as compliant as averdeen.  it sounds like you guys are just starting to realise you have a crime problem.

QUOTE(me_007x)

Regarding the Tony Martin case, I think he was technically charged with owning an unlawful shotgun 'cause his licence had been revoked, this then led on to the other charges.

then why was not released because he is considered to be a "danger to burglars".
Link1
I dont really know a lot about the tony martin case, I had just heard a little bit here and their, so I could be totally off on this

[me_007x]

QUOTE

then why was not released because he is considered to be a "danger to burglars".

He was a danger to buglars cause he said he would have done the same thing again, this is not a good thing to say to the parole board when you are trying to be released, in effect saying prison had not worked, he was also charged with other things relating to shooting the burgler.

We are starting to have the same problem the US has with suing everyone. UK law is slightly different though, I have only read a few John Grisham books but in those it seems as though the lawyers take a cut of the payout, whereas in the UK the solicitor fees are paid by the person who looses, at least I think this is the situation but I am not a lawyer.

The attitude of your British friend is sadly one I have seen a number of times, normally from dole dossers (I am not saying your friend is one). My circle of friends is made up of people who work hard for a living, and will defend own property and person.

[Maximumbeing]

QUOTE

You're joking right? I don't think anyone is nieve enough to believe that we will ever see peace, or that there is anything that we can do to foster peace. The best we can do is kill those who's lives are dedicated to terrorism, death, and crime. And be more tolerant of those we don't agree with, as long as they don't threated our lives or our way of live.

It's just a song, bud.

But to say that peace is not a goal we can achieved is getting us nowhere even faster.

[schandtatmensch]

As opposed to just getting us nowhere?

[bluedeath]

QUOTE(schandtatmensch @ Mar 10 2005, 02:19 PM)

As opposed to just getting us nowhere?

[Ween311]

QUOTE

I've done the odd job here n there in my younger years and all I wanted was the home owners prorerty. I would not enter a person property armed to teeth but if I lived in the good old USA I would be armed to teeth.

Soo...now we see where this is coming from.  You don't want homeowners to have guns because you don't want to get shot when you break into THIER house to take THEIR property.  

QUOTE

Just because someone is going through a bad patch doesn't mean there life is void just because you are paranoid.

Does that statement mean that it's ok for someone who is having a hard time making ends meet to turn to a life of crime?  What kind of reasoning is that?  Lots of people fall on hard times and get through it without breaking into someone's house and stealing their stuff.  

[Ween311]

I think if you go on a robbing spree anywhere, the owner of that property has the right to pull a gun on you and tell you to stop and get out.  If you then go after the property owner, he/she has every right to shoot you.  

If you obey the law and don't steal people's things, then you don't have to worry about it.

[damam]

QUOTE(Arvarden)

Daman, spell my name correctly next time. 

woooo, easy fella, Ive read to many articles about the rocketing crime rates in britain to want to piss off a brit.  Atleast if you decide to come over to the states and track me down, I will be able to shoot you before you can really do me any harm.  

QUOTE(Arvarden)

Crime is a problem where ever you go in the world as capitalism is the root of all evil ATM. Letting joe public defend there property with fire arms is not solving the problem only fueling the problem. Apart from accidents with firearms in the home etc potential burgulars will also seek firearms to protect themselves from the home owner.

Accidents in the house are rare, thats already been addressed in this thread.  You also appear to be ignoring all the statistics that show that when gun control is laxed, crime goes down which has already been addressed in this thread as well.  The Economics Professor Jon R Lott is the foremost expert on this here in america.  He did a detailed county by county analysis of guns and crime in america.  And despite several attempts by the gun control/brady people his study has stood firm.  You can download his raw data and scrutinize it yourself - just do a search.

QUOTE(Arvarden)

I was 10 when I broke into a green house and robbed my neighbours lovely plants for my den , just because I was slightly out of control for a few years does that mean my life is void because I robbed a few pot plants?

whats scarry here is that you dont seem to think you were in the wrong here.  Or maybe you do and you just dont care.  Just a kid being a kid.  Nothing changes the fact that you were wrong, and should feel remorse regardless of how you try to justify it.

QUOTE(Arvarden)

Just because someone is going through a bad patch doesn't mean there life is void just because you are paranoid.

so what your saying is I have to let someone rape me just because they are a confused 19 year old going through a bad patch.  A women who carries a concealed weapon is about 83% more likely to successfully fend off an attacker and is less than 1/2 as likely to be injured in the process.  I will pose this question again: Who will protect me, if not myself?

This appears to be a fundamental difference in our cultures.  You brits appear to be tought to flee and/or comply.  Americans believe we have the fundamental right to stand our ground and protect ourselves.  Historically, over the last 200 years (study done by Eric Monkkonen) , our murder rates have always been roughly 5x the UK rate mostly due to this cultural difference.  The funny part is this, since you guys have slowly been giving up your gun rights, our murder ratios have lessened.  The last I read, it was at 3.5X.

As Benjamin Franklin implied would happen through natural law:  By giving up your gun rights, you have losing both liberty and safety - so enjoy your high crime rate cause you asked for it  

[Tony42077]

QUOTE(Arvarden @ Mar 11 2005, 04:10 PM)

So if you go to a high st store and go on a robbing rampage does that mean you should be shot on sight?  Er no so what makes you think you have the right to take someone's life for petty theft?

[Arvarden]

Count yourself lucky cus you would be prolly be the last person on "my list".  

Accidents with fire arms are rare but one child killed by the home owners fire arm is one too many.  We have stun guns, pepper spray etc...non lethel weapons that home users can use to disable a person and give you time to move out of harms way but you would rather kill a person rather than help him/her?

It's also rare that burgulars enter property to cause you harm, I've been burgled atleast 8 times and caught the little buggers in the act, guess what?  They ddin't attack me they wanted to get the hell out of dodge.  I wouldn't want to kill them but I would love a stun gun

The only scary part Daman is that you are making crap again, at the time I didn't care but if I could go back in time to rectify my mistakes i would do without batting an eye lid.

If you think you are going to get mugged/burgled or rapped each time you go out don't think it's time to see a doctor or move to a more socialable nation?

Man...you guys are PARA!