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[damam]

QUOTE(67thRaptorBull)

the art of war doesnt really apply anymore........

QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire)

His word doesn't really have any merit concerning the topic of modern warfare

Either you havent read it, or you didnt understand it.  Its a timeless book on human interaction
Next you'll be saying, "The Prince" is no longer applicable.

But for the sake of peace here - why dont you define what a WW must be to be called a WW in your view.  I would say that it must involve more than 10 countries or entitites that are located on atelast 2 continents (although battles need only take place on one continent), must involve massive resources, and must have a atleast a slight ripple effect on a few countries not (yet) involved.

[fishlord]

The only possibility is USA vs someone else

[gronne]

QUOTE(67thRaptorBull @ Jan 27 2005, 02:06 AM)

and notice how its called a World War, as in all the major powers fighting, so invading iraq definatly does not count as a world war

[My_Brain_is_on_Fire]

QUOTE(damam @ Jan 27 2005, 08:16 PM)

QUOTE(67thRaptorBull)

the art of war doesnt really apply anymore........

[gronne]

QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire @ Jan 28 2005, 12:10 AM)

China has no real authority on the topic of modern war. Sun Tzu's Art of War, might have some merit from a philosophical standpoint, but nothing more. Like Russia they have gotten their asses handed to them just about every time both offensively and defensively.

[damam]

QUOTE(gronne)

As I've said several times before when it comes to China; Wait and see. I've got all my odds on China, but if they take too long time(which they won't) my second guess will be N.K. And my third bet will be Iran(or in collaboration with several totalitarian muslim leaders). One of my reasons for China might be a bit vague, but it feels real to me. It's their interests in going to the moon that feels like a "sign" to me. The cold war will come back pretty soon.

China's economy is growing at a very impressive rate ( about 10% a year ).  China has stated that they want to be the supreme economic, military, and political power in the East within 50 years. Many believe that they want to go back to Cow Tow days of old where all the surrounding countries pay them tribute.  They are certainly on the path to do so.

really the thing that can hold them back is their lack of natural resources.  But as cainedna said in a previous thread pertaining to china, they are already pouncing us because they have millions of workers willing to work for next to nothing.  Their population may be their greatest asset simply because they can do a more brute force approach to everything from production to science to militiary.

If I had to bet on who is the next country to join the US (cause we have no intentions of leaving) in the super power club it would be china.

Part of the problem with predicting a super power though is that you almost never can.  In 1941 would anyone have guessed the US and the Soviet Union were going to be super powers within that decade?  

[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE(damam @ Jan 27 2005, 02:16 PM)

QUOTE(67thRaptorBull)

the art of war doesnt really apply anymore........

[My_Brain_is_on_Fire]

QUOTE(damam @ Jan 28 2005, 01:51 AM)

China's economy is growing at a very impressive rate ( about 10% a year ).  China has stated that they want to be the supreme economic, military, and political power in the East within 50 years. Many believe that they want to go back to Cow Tow days of old where all the surrounding countries pay them tribute.  They are certainly on the path to do so.

[gronne]

QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire @ Jan 28 2005, 05:06 AM)

Uhm , the USSR and US where already super powers before the war started. Maybe you meant only super powers?

[My_Brain_is_on_Fire]

Actually they were, along with Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, Britain, and France.

[jbp20717]

QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire @ Jan 28 2005, 09:18 AM)

Actually they were, along with Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, Britain, and France.

[gronne]

QUOTE(jbp20717 @ Jan 28 2005, 02:04 PM)

I don't think the way the term superpower (in the way used during he Cold War) could really apply to those, apart from Britain pre-WWI.  FRANCE?!?!?!

[damam]

QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire)

the USSR and US where already super powers before the war started. Maybe you meant only super powers?

Actually they were, along with Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, Britain, and France.

I dont believe that anyone can be this ignorant of history.  You've got to be trolling.  

QUOTE

Good luck. I've got one word for you, Japan.

Im not really sure what your getting at here.  Japan never paid tribute to china in the past.  China does not have any of the primary issues that japan has.  An elementary survey shows that.

QUOTE

What happened to the Soviet Union?

Again different situation - in china you actually get rewarded for hard work.  The USSR people had no reason to work two jobs, work overtime, or start their own business.

QUOTE

Not while they are still pseudo-communist. I believe they will eventually go capitalist (HK).

Most sino scholars dont consider China to be communist at all.  They see their current government as a modified dynasty (simply because it is not passed down through bloodlines ).  I even read books in college where they didnt mince words at all and called him emporor Tse-Tung.  Dynasties have never excluded capitalism, and the Tse-Tung Dynasty is no exception.

[My_Brain_is_on_Fire]

QUOTE(damam @ Jan 28 2005, 07:13 PM)

I dont believe that anyone can be this ignorant of history. You've got to be trolling.

[damam]

QUOTE(My_Brain_is_on_Fire @ Jan 28 2005, 11:03 AM)

I know you might only see Britain, France (maybe not them so much, although they did appear to still play a vital role in international politics after World War I), and Germany as the only super powers leading up to 1941, but I don’t feel it was limited just to them. A super power is defined simply as a powerful nation that has great influence (not just having an atomic/nuclear capability) over other nations. Explain to me how those previously listed nations do not fit that description?

No one saw the United States as a power of any sort.  We were, in their eyes, a bunch outcasts with bad breading (sometimes I think the French still see us that way).  And they had no reason too.  We had never been the deciding factor in any major conflict until WWII.  The only person who may have saw the US as a threat (and just a threat, not a major power) was Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, but he never really saw Japan as signifacant power either.

QUOTE

My point exactly you said the surrounding nations would pay tribute to China (maybe a misinterpretation on my part), I was stating that that simply wouldn't happen.

I wasnt clear.  China wants the surrounding land neighbors and taiwan to start paying tribute to them within this century (keep in mind that this is speculation).  I dont know what they have in plan for Japan.  Historically, China had always ignored them seeing them as "Eastern Dwarves" (ie an inferior race), after WWII though that may have changed.

QUOTE

That is true but not until recently. China still has little regard for human rights.

this conversation, capitalism, and being a world power have nothing to do with human rights.  I was only stating that the chinese people have motivational reasons to work harder, the USSR people did not.  They got paid the same regardless of how hard they worked, chinese get rewarded for taking on extra jobs and this has always been true (with the exception of the militant phase of the cultural revolution).  Consequently, the USSR economy crawled, the chinese economy is growing at an extremely fast rate.  One of the biggest differences now in China then 10 years ago, is that they have relaxed the number of employees a company is aloud to have ( i think it used to be six ).  So now companies can grow and grow.