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Author Topic: A Just War?  (Read 845 times)

pug_ster

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A Just War?
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2004, 04:10:00 PM »

QUOTE (The unProfessional @ Sep 12 2004, 09:41 PM)
So if you feel the war is just then you have to fight in it?  That's like saying if you're a vegetarian, you have to join PETA.

Nemt already said he's joining the Marines after he finishes school.  You guys are insulting him because he hasn't ditched out on his education to fight in the war.  People are doing it over and over again.  I know you hate nemt... but you're only discrediting yourselves.

And Jeti... those of us in here have much less of an idea of how just the war is than you do.


Yes that is what I am implying.  I am saying that if someone is an Vegetarian, he/she doesn't have to tell everyone eating 'meat from a dead carcass' is wrong.  If someone feels so strong about telling others not to eat meat, maybe he/she should join Peta.

Nemt doesn't have to be an a**hole by throwing an insult just because someone else don't share his views.
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nemt

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« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2004, 06:21:00 PM »

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 12 2004, 07:13 PM)
Nemt doesn't have to be an a**hole by throwing an insult just because someone else don't share his views.

No one with intelligence, and intact reasoning skills could come to an incorrect conclusion, meaning anyone against the war, other than Saddam and Chirac, must lack one or both of the above...hence...you're an idiot.  cool.gif
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gcskate27

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« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2004, 06:29:00 PM »

QUOTE
It's not a matter of opinion. Something is either justified or it isn't.


QUOTE
No one with intelligence, and intact reasoning skills could come to an incorrect conclusion, meaning anyone against the war, other than Saddam and Chirac, must lack one or both of the above...hence...you're an idiot.  cool.gif


'opinions': the new 'fact'...
-by nemt
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pug_ster

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A Just War?
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2004, 06:44:00 PM »

QUOTE (nemt @ Sep 13 2004, 02:24 AM)
No one with intelligence, and intact reasoning skills could come to an incorrect conclusion, meaning anyone against the war, other than Saddam and Chirac, must lack one or both of the above...hence...you're an idiot.  cool.gif

What can I say?  Insults is Nemt's middle name.
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pug_ster

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A Just War?
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2004, 12:18:00 AM »

I don't know what Jeti thinks.  But I think that the cycle of violence will continue as long as US are in Iraq.  I mean that incident when the US plane bombed the tank close to civilians won't look good for the US.  Not even Bush is sure when this violence will end.  I can think of several ways that the war will be over:
1) US defeats all the Insurgents in Iraq, nobody know when this will happen though
2) US withdraws troops from Iraq, then the Insurgents will eventually take over Iraq.
3) A treaty has been signed between US and Iraqi insurgents.  I highly doubt this will happen.

I would like to know how things actually got worse in Iraq since the defeat of Saddam's army last year.
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jeti

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A Just War?
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2004, 02:43:00 AM »

sorry for the abrupt end last post. ok, i definatly agree with pug_ster on the cycle will probably never end. iraq will always have people like muktada al sadar trying to become the next dictator. these people have never seen freedom. they don't even have a clue what it is like. they live their lives everyday fearing that madi army might decide to come into their home that day. just to use it as a stronghold, to fight the us soilders. that is mainly how innocent people die. these followers of sadar are like cock roaches. they have no job. steal everything they have. only come out at night to send a rpg screaming down a dark allyway. then run around a corner just to see you on the other side and wave! i never know who to trust here. we find evidince of even the interpeters sping on us. i just wait for the day that iraq has build its own forces up to support itself. they have ing (iraqi national guard) they are training about 300 every two weeks. that i know of. they have ip's. (iraqi police) there is a shit load of them, but most of them are paid of by sadar. money runs everything here. alot of people play bothsides of the game, because of money! i just hope the upper levels of the new iraqi govenment are strong enough to hold it all together. maybe when that day comes we could drop our number of troops down to 10,000 instead of 130,000! i only have 45 days left in country. may god watch over the guys i leave behind to take my place.  jeti
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pegasys

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« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2004, 04:51:00 AM »

I don't think that we will ever be able to fully stop the 'insurgent' forces for the reasons you just stated.  They are everyone and they are no-one, one day they will shak you hand and the next put a grenade in your boot.  I feel that we never should have went, all we have done is put you and the iraqi citizins more at risk.  I feel that you and all the other us troops in iraq would be much better off risking your lifes searching for osama(the person who actually planned the terrorest attacks on 9/11, instead of sadam., That one's 4 u nemt.).  Good luck and come home safe.
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nemt

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« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2004, 07:45:00 AM »

Like I've said before...

..pull out of the insurgent hotbeds, leave the terrorists there, and send over the Enola Gay.
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nemt

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« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2004, 10:26:00 AM »

The only reason the terrorists fight with such bravado now is because they have nothing to fear.  Three decades of impotent foreign policy have emboldened to almost no end.
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melon

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« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2004, 10:46:00 AM »

QUOTE

..pull out of the insurgent hotbeds, leave the terrorists there, and send over the Enola Gay.

laugh.gif  Theres been enough clouds over N Korea  wink.gif


QUOTE

Nemt already said he's joining the Marines after he finishes school. You guys are insulting him because he hasn't ditched out on his education to fight in the war. People are doing it over and over again. I know you hate nemt... but you're only discrediting yourselves.

Dont know what its like over there but its better for your carer the better the education, makes sense to finish school, thats not why we insult him. There will be plenty more wars anyway  wink.gif


Pegysus I see your point, but most of the worlds problem is with an American soldiers life being worth more than 30 local childrens.
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pegasys

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« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2004, 12:26:00 PM »

I agree, melon, just not to the extreme that you said in one of ur previous posts.  If we are going to go to war over terrorisum, or threat of WMD's ect, we should fight Korea or Iran(not saying that we should).  I guess after the election and in years to come we will see how history remembers these happenings.  On a side note I wasted my entire math class arguing with my teacher about GW vs. Kerry, she has some of nemt's opinions and "facts" so needless to say all respect has been lost for her.
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Baner

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« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2004, 01:41:00 PM »

QUOTE
If people do go out they have a great chance of being shot by trigger happy American troops.

I kind of hope more American troops die, lets turn this into another Vietnam.
I cant differentiate between an Iraqi life and an American. Actually I belive an Iraqi civillian life is worth ten times an American soldiers. The soldier signed up for this, the Iraqi civillian got fucked over by Saddam and now they are getting fucked over by the US army. When the mess is finally over the country will be fucked over financially because of the extorionate profits given to mostly American companies to rebuild the country.

I know im going to get slated for this but your opinions mean shit to me as I see the world for what it is, not some bullshit patriotic twist given by Bush and your media.
I cant be fucked with this anymore, we argue in circles and get nowhere.

So jeti if you have mistreated anybody while you have been out there, and being an American soldier means there is a good chance you have, or if you have watched idally while somebody else has you deserve what you get.

Your not a hero, your not protecting America, your not even keeping the world safe. Your actually making it a more dangerous place to live in so thanks for that. But you keep doing your job like a bitch, killing whoever Bush feels like invading tommorrow.
You keep telling yourself Im doing the right thing, as long as you know the entire world hates your country and its army for what it is doing right now in Iraq and Afghanastan.


(sorry for the long quote)
All right, first off, Melon... you're a jackass. I find it amazing how, by just one post, you know everything about jeti, to the point of wanting him killed in war. Melon, your the prime example of how gullible people can be, you see the media feeding you bullshit about x amount of innocents killed, but you don't see the cities that are being rebuilt. Families that can actually feed their children, put roofs over their wives heads, and talk about their government with fewer worries of being tortured.

Hoping that more Americans die is weak... What does that accomplish? Americans dieing won't change that fact that Iraq is becoming a better nation. Sure the majority of their police system may be corrupt, but the ones who aren't are contributing more to their nation than many have before. 300 troops every 2 weeks, that's an amazing amount, considering before this, they had no standing army. This war might not seem just now, but years from now, whether it's 10 years or 50 years down the road, we can look to Iraq and see it as a developed country, rather than a 3rd world nation.

Most of the soldiers didn't sign up for this war, many of them were already in it, or part of the reserves.

The country was already in the worst shape it could be in financially, all money generated by the government went straight into Saddam and his closest "buddies."

I find it amazing that, due to the fact that you see a handful of American soldiers mistreating Iraqi captives, that all 130,000 (as jeti said) are pieces of shit. Melon, if I recall correctly your from England right? Does that mean your teeth are tainted yellow and bent out of shape, and your women are ugly as hell? Pull your head out of your ass and "see the world for what it is."

The whole world hates America? That's hard to believe. If that's true, then why do we have 31 countries supporting us in this war, and why have we not been invaded. Why would anyone care if America were attacked if we're hated by so many? Melon, I hope you progress through life and realize that your view of the world is a bit tainted.


QUOTE
EDIT: If it is opposite day then you would do the opposite of opposite day which is normal day. Do you follow?


By saying it's not opposite day, it covers both, being opposite day and not being opposite day. wink.gif

I myself planned on joining the army once I got out of high school, at the beginning of my junior year, I got a job at a local power company, who has offered to pay my way through college completely. My friends and family all want me not to go into the army. It's hard to sign up when you know everyone you know and love don't want you to leave. It doesn't give me any reassurance that I'm being thanked for what I'm doing. I still have another semester left in school, we'll see how thing unfold until then. But with saying that, if there ever is a draft, I will proudly fight, and if it comes to the worst, die for my country, not matter the reason.

Jeti, it's all in the eye of the beholder, asking the average Joe what he thinks is only going to confuse and anger you more. We are feed crap everyday, it's up to us to believe that that is all that's going on, or figure out the facts behind the media bullshit.
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pegasys

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« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2004, 01:54:00 PM »

QUOTE (Baner @ Sep 13 2004, 03:44 PM)
But with saying that, if there ever is a draft, I will proudly fight, and if it comes to the worst, die for my country, not matter the reason.

I would not fight blindly, I don't know why anyone would.  I will fight and die for my country if it is a worthy cause.  Iraq isn't.  WWII, is a worthy cause, viet nam and Iraq are not Afganastan is.
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Baner

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« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2004, 02:17:00 PM »

That's where me and you are different. If my commandr-in-chief and congress believe it's worth a draft, then I believe it is too. The war in Iraq hasn't held a draft yet.
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pug_ster

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« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2004, 09:55:00 PM »

There's a bunch of jihadist muslims who believe it is honorable to have a chance to kill US soldiers or a high Iraqi Officals.  

Another problem is how these insurgents get these rpg's and ak47's?  They obviously get them from Al-Qaeda in Iran or Syria where US troops has no control near those borders.  In fact, there are a lot of 'hot zones' where US or Iraqis government has virtually no control of.  And secretary of State Rumsfeld says that 130,000 troops is enough to 'contain' Iraq.  I'm sorry, they are sending US troops where they can't win.

Another issue is what Jeti says is that there are people who are happy that US leaves so they will help the insurgents.  If Iraq doesn't do anything about these insurgent-sympatizers, this is a no win situation.
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