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[thomes08]

none of that proved anything......  i read all of it thinking there was a point, i could been doing something more useful like staring at the carpet.

Go to a zoo and you will find at least some hint that evolution does exist, the reason it's really hard to prove is it's such a slow process that it's hard to track.  but there is scientific proof that things do adapt to their ever changing environment.  Does that mean that "god" is changing around the DNA of species who undergo change?

Also i have a couple of questions, no right or wrong answer i'm just curious.

Do you belive that there may be life outside of the life here on earth?  Keep in mind how rediculously big our universe is.

I mentioned this before but i'll say it again.  In human history we have created gods for things that we do not understand, agreed?  Like the ancient greek gods of thunder and fire and such.  DO you agree that they were created because we have no clue how it happeded?  And is it not true we proved them wrong?  If so is it possible that since we still don't understand some things, instead of having many gods we put all the things we don't understand into one god?  I'm just asking if this is possible i'm not trying to change your mind

OK, now is it possible to teach a dog chemisty?  I hope you're going to say no.  SO since we can't teach species that aren't as smart as us complex things such as chemistry, is it possible that we are also a species that does not understand everything, such as life?  So is it possible that we just can't understand the meaning of life and how life began, that we never will, and that certain people refuse to accept the fact that we can't explain everything, so they take the unexplained and say "god did it" to ease the frustration of not knowing everything about the universe?


no hard feelings here i'm just trying to get you to think outside the box

thomes08

[The unProfessional]

Religion is designed to provide human beings with the much needed sense of worship.  It makes us feel important, like someone's fun little project.  There's nothing less than natural about human beings.  Everything about us, with the exception of intelligence (arguably), is much the same as all creatures on earth.  There's nothing "divine" about us.

There is much we don't, and never will, understand.  Scientists will be attempting to shed light on these issues, while the religions will continue to attribute them to God.

But hey, whatever it takes to keep people from killing each other... unfortunately nothing can keep us from doing that.

Everything in nature belongs to a delecate balance, as you said Jesusphreak.  But how does that prove the divine, intelligent creator?  You can infer, but it isn't proof by any means.  I'm not discrediting christianity, i'm just pointing out that there is, and never will be, proof for either side of the argument.  At least not on the surface of Earth.

Changes to these delecate balances in nature, such as the position of the sun, doesn't automatically mean the non-existence or destruction of life.  It might mean a complete climactic change, and a calling for life to find a new way to prevail.  Evolution has proven that life and creatures adapt.  Let's say for the sake of argument that a massive climactic change occured, the earth heated up, and the ecosystem was forced to exist without large quantities of water.  Can you guarantee that evolution wouldn't produce a being capable of surviving without nature as we see it today, but rather a much hotter, dryer climate?

Also, it's completely ignorant to say we're the only intelligent creatures in the universe.  It's possible, but highly improbable.  Note that I'm not saying you said this... but it adds to the argument.

[SmallBusinessGuy]

You guys are fucking thought nazis quit trying to program people to think like you. A lot of you guys need your asses kicked.

[thomes08]

i have, i went to church for years, went throu CCD, communion, i'm baptised, so on an so forth.  I didn't come to these realizations through what i was taught growing up.

You're thinking evolution happens too fast.  It happens over millions even billions of years.  I'm not saying that aliens have to be smarter than us.  I was just wondering if you think they may exist are they a product of god too?  And who says they are smarter than us, i didn't.

thomes08

[gcskate27]

QUOTE (melon @ Aug 13 2004, 02:49 AM)

Edam being the Lords favourite!

edam is good... edam and branston sandwhiches... theres something i havent had in a while...

but to jesusfreak... part of your rational of god are the factors, that if varied would end life, that make up the earth... in the vast size of the universe, are you saying that its unlikely or even impossible for one planet to be in such a special postition?

to me it seems much more likely in the untold numbers of planets, that at least one would be set up as such...

and seeing the size of the universe, the fact that we havent been visited by aliens is not even close to proving that there are none...  

why does there have to be a begining? why does there have to be a creator? the universe isnt an art project or anything comparable to what man can make: why do we have to question it as such?

[ktm300]

QUOTE (jesusphreak @ Aug 14 2004, 06:11 AM)

if the universe really is as big as it is, and if we really just came about by accident,

In alot of your posts it sounds as if your are uncertain what you yourself believe, people should be tought HOW to think, not WHAT to think.

WTF is this? if the universe is really as big as it is?

[thomes08]

QUOTE (jesusphreak @ Aug 14 2004, 06:11 AM)

What made you come to these realizations? I never thought you were raised that way, most agnostics or atheists are not, I'm just wondering why you think the way you do.... No, you didn't but what I"m saying is this: if the universe really is as big as it is, and if we really just came about by accident, there should be some very advanced form of alien life out there. We are relatively new to the scene, and so is our solar system. There should've been plenty of opportunity for life to develop elsewhere if it happened as easily as it supposedly did here.....

yeah the religion in my childhood was a result of my grandmother and in part my mother.  My dad never said anything about it either way.

if you believe that you can't travel faster than the speed of light, and if you take a look at how far away the other side (you know what i mean) of the universe is it makes more sense why we don't have aliens flying around everywhere.  

Also you have to think about how the stars don't last forever.  Wait, do you believe that there was a beginning to the universe?  I mean i'm assuming you don't believe the Big Bang or String Theory right?  So i dunno how to explain what i want to you in a way you would believe.  i dunno....
anyways good day everyone

thomes08


P.S.  Isn't it ironic given the title of this thread that we're not arguing about religion again.  But now we're onto life outside of earth

[elfey1]

i believe this has become a religous shit arsed argument. ironic.

[jesusphreak]

QUOTE

yeah the religion in my childhood was a result of my grandmother and in part my mother. My dad never said anything about it either way. if you believe that you can't travel faster than the speed of light, and if you take a look at how far away the other side (you know what i mean) of the universe is it makes more sense why we don't have aliens flying around everywhere.

Really, if you think about it, time is just another dimension, like length, width, and height. We haven't figured out how to move about in this dimension yet, but it does exist. I also think people fail to remember that there is a fifth dimension, the supernatural. I'll be blunt and honest with you. Demons exist. Angels exist. They aren't the stuff of fairytales like we've always been told. They are both extremely powerful, and their recurrence and visitation are very common things in Asia and Africa. We don't see this kind of stuff in America because think about it, why would Satan need to scare us? We already don't believe in the supernatural, why show it to us?

The fact is, if life so easily evolved here despite all of the obstalces placed in it's path, it should've evolved in plenty of other places. Especially considering how young our solar system is, there should be plenty of advanced civilizations.

QUOTE

Also you have to think about how the stars don't last forever. Wait, do you believe that there was a beginning to the universe? I mean i'm assuming you don't believe the Big Bang or String Theory right? So i dunno how to explain what i want to you in a way you would believe. i dunno.... anyways good day everyone

I know there was a beginning to the universe. The Big Bang theory has been proven by measurements in the movement of galaxies and radiation left over from the beginning of the universe.

You guys keep mentioning that maybe we were just special. We got lucky to have life here. The fact is, we are lucky to have matter of any kind in the universe. It doesn't have just to do with us. It has to do with everything....

I still think for me, one of the biggest selling points of Christianity being the true religion is it's uniqueness. There is not a religion on this globe besides Christianity that believes you aren't saved by your good works. There isn't a religion on this globe that teaches the only way to be "saved" is through a relationship with God.

As I've said before, religion is man trying to make a way to god, Christianity is God making his way to man....

The very fact that it is the ONLY religion teaching this tells me something is up. It ain't just a coincidence.....

But you know, I could go into the prophecies, which are what really got be believing....

[thomes08]

the only reason things evolve is because of obstacles in their path, evolution is a direct reaction to changing environments.  The 5th dimention is a "supernatural" dimension?  Sooooo because we don't understand something it has to be angels and demons?  String theory suggests there are 11 dimentions.  I think it's a downfall of human growth to simply pass things we don't understanf off as being a product of god.  If that were the case there would be no scientific advancement in many areas.  

I haven't asked this question since grade school and i didn't get very intelligent responses so i'll ask it again now.  If god creates everything that happened, then how did god come to be?  And if you don't have an answer for that, is it possible that another god created this god?  Why wouldn't that be possible given the things you believe now?  Maybe your god is just a pawn in a game of even greater gods.  Why do you think nothing could be greater than god?  Also please don't respond to my question like "god was just there", cause that's the answer i got when i was 8

thomes08

[thomes08]

again.... all that proved nothing.  Too tired to argue about this tonight but i'll just give you a story that proves my point so you'll have the rest of the night to rethink your beliefs.

A man in Africa once said this...  "I know there is no god, i've been through time and space and have seen the history of everything.  I know how it all happened and i know the meaning of life"

proves it right, cause somebody said it and it's weird.



edit:  and if you want to know why there are fossil gaps take a historical geography class or read books on historical geography

[The unProfessional]

Also fossil gaps and missing links are could be a result of many potential events occuring over tens of millions of years.  If the dinosaurs were wiped out by meteors, storms, and the like, other surface evidence could be destroyed by destructive events over the past 60 million years.

Also, please don't use random stories to "prove" that angels and demons exist.  You must understand that there is still, to this day, no hard evidence of this.  It's obviously something we'd like to believe, and screenwriters are banking on it.  With steady increases in technology, such as hand-held video cameras and digital photos, still no one has an image of such sightings.  Arbitrary stories from unnamed "villages" in countries far far away prove nothing.

A story, fable, legend, myth or any other such piece of information does not provide proof.  If this is so, who is the say the beliefs of non-christian religions aren't also right?  The pagans have plenty of stories.  For that matter, so do the ancient greeks, and so on and so forth.

[thomes08]

how can you tell him his scientific story doesn't work but your "some village in africa said they saw something" sotry does work?

[gcskate27]

[The unProfessional]

QUOTE

how can you tell him his scientific story doesn't work but your "some village in africa said they saw something" sotry does work?

These weren't just your average villagers, apparently.