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Author Topic: A Little Bit About Me  (Read 654 times)

Foe-hammer

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A Little Bit About Me
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2004, 09:54:00 PM »
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but they also believe that Jesus is Satan's brother

True, but in the sense that all of Gods children are brothers and sisters, and Lucifer was also one of Gods spirits but fell (Morning star).

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They believe in salvation by works (ie. you can work your way into heaven).

Not true.  They believe in salvation by grace (Christ Atonement), after all one can do.  This does make more logic to me then death bed repentance.  "Faith without works is dead".

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Joseph Smith also has a court order from New York state on the charge of looking into a stone to tell the future.

It was called the uramin in thumum (sp?).  He used it to aide him in translating the book of mormon from off of gold plates.

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The Book of Mormon itself has absolutely no credence in modern archaelogy. It has gone over many many changes in its text in the 170 years its been in publication.

The only changes i noticed were grammatical.  No points of their doctrine were changed.  I have studied the LDS faith for some time now (quite interesting), and have compared 1890 and present editions of the book.  If you want to talk about changes, the bible has been through many translations, and messed with during the early days of catholicism.

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Mormonism itself is a direct copy of Islam. God calls his "prophet" to reform something messed up. He sees an angel (both instances Gabriel), receives a revelation and receives new "scripture".

The angle was called Moroni, not Gabriel that visited Joseph Smith.  God has always used prophets and apostles to run his kingdom when the church was on the earth.  Question is why are there not any prophets and apostles today?
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jesusphreak

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« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2004, 10:17:00 PM »
Here is an interesting comparison of Mormon and Biblical theology:

http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm

Also, here is an interesting page looking att the changes in the Book of Mormon:
http://www.carm.org/...bom_changes.htm
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jesusphreak

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« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2004, 10:23:00 PM »
I would also like to say that http://www.carm.org is a great site going through a lot of Christian issues and why CHristianity is valid...........
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cainedna

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« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2004, 11:17:00 PM »
I've been checking out that site Jesusphreak. Overall, I found it pretty interesting, but there were a few things I wasn't too sure about, I was wondering if I could get your opinion on them.

In the 40 Objections part of the site, number 36 concerns the idea that the new testament was written so it would look as though Jesus fulfilled prophecy. The author makes the argument that the apostles suffered for their beliefs, and that it would be illogical for them to lie.

1. I might be wrong, but I recall hearing that the chronological order of the different books of the new testament gradually brought Jesus to become less of a philosopher into a prophet, and eventually into the divine embodiment he is known as today.
This could imply that his ideas were either procedurally idealized (as does happen with martyrs,) or that his teachings were being dressed up to be more appealing. There are plenty of instances of this happening over the years with Christianity, including the date of Christmas and Easter, the Christmas tree, and countless other fusions with other customs and faiths.

2. It doesn't address the fact that many records of the apostles are no longer available, due to editions, lost records, or the distinct possibility of blatantly self-contradictory records. This point isn't exactly evidence, but it's certainly a big loose end.

On top of that, he doesn't do a lot to disprove agnosticism, simply atheism. The closest he does is a few scripted conversations pointing to the outcome he desires. I found a number of points that I've always felt as a basis of not believing in Christianity that never got addressed. They were simply glossed over in a way to make it seem like he'd made an airtight argument.

I feel the fact is that there is no airtight argument for Christianity (in whatever incarnation) that doesn't involve a leap of faith. Of course, it's still interesting to toss ideas like this back and forth.
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Foe-hammer

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« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2004, 12:43:00 AM »
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Yes, but have you read of the thief on the cross? If you wanna talk about death bed atonement, there it is.....

Christ said he would be with him in paradise.  Paradise doesn't necessarily mean exaltation.

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Go back to the earliest texts of the New Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls and you will find that the modern day Bible is VERY similar to it.

Yes it is close, but there are greater discrepancies found in the bible (mainly on baptism) then ones you gave me the link to on the book of mormon (there still was not any doctrinal discrepancies, mainly grammatical, and the father and the son being one, which they believe are one in the same, just three separate personages.).

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This court order is from several years before the Book of Mormon was ever published.

The book of mormon wasn't published tell 1830, joseph smith started translating the plates 1821.  So he was using the sear stone well before the book was published; not to tell the future.

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Mormonism straight up still isn't Biblical.

That is your opinion, and i believe otherwise.

Also, you keep bringing up the subject of mormons believing that they can work their way into heaven.  This is completely false.  They do believe that works is very important, but no matter how many good works a person does while they are alive, if it were not for christ atonement they could not be saved, because christ paid for the sins of all humankind.  But if someone does evil all their days, and does not repent (repentance requires more then just confessing your sins, it requires a godly sorrow and a change of heart and actions), then christ's atonement will have no effect on that individual.  Read the book of James again, and then maybe you'll understand what i'm talking about.

Again, try not bashing other religions that you obviously do not understand (try not learning about the LDS faith from just your preacher and anti-moron literature).  It is quite hypocritical (pharacies and sagecies during Christs time were a good example of this).
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nemt

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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2004, 04:29:00 AM »
Let's put it simply, the church of latter day saints, and the vile abomination of islam, are both equally ridiculous.
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Banj

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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2004, 04:47:00 AM »
rolleyes.gif
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nemt

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« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2004, 05:54:00 AM »
QUOTE (Banj @ Jul 5 2004, 09:47 AM)
......but not quite as rediculous as your sweeping statements.  rolleyes.gif

Point out one thing ridiculous OR sweeping about my statements?
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Banj

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« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2004, 07:50:00 AM »
...."the vile abomination of Islam.", you are a tool.
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cainedna

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« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2004, 08:44:00 AM »
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The thing is, you'll find a very concrete set of beliefs by 50 AD (long within the range of avoiding legenday occurances and getting false memories).

I certainly don't think 50 years is too short a time for things to be blown out of proportion. Especially when you imagine the time period. I'm only trying to point out how there's certainly a possibility of it being exaggerated accounts.

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I don't think its the best thing to do in proving another religion false. I will definitely point out whats wrong with it, but you are gonna have a hard time proving its false to anyone (although it is possible).

That's actually one of the points of agnosticism, is that it's not a religion. I certainly have no sacred cows to defend, I simply don't see any compelling evidence towards Christianity or any other religion.

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I tend to think more importantly how Christianity is practiced today and there are supernatural things going on that cannot be explained by conventional science. One you reach the point of realizing that there are things going on in this world which we cannot explain, it is most important to show that Christianity is the only religion that shows itself divine through its many exact prophecies that came to pass (Messianic and historical) and how the Bible is in tune with modern archaelogy.....

There are a lot of things that were never explainable without the bible, which have been proven otherwise throughout history. I know how often this is brought up, but it's true.
While you can look at the bible, and see how through hindsight some things have proven it to be true, you can interpret the book in so many ways it's truly absurd.
I'd like to see some bit of scripture that had a well-documented modern outcome, that wasn't ambiguous in nature.
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Mozart.mp3

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« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2004, 08:57:00 AM »
Well know, whatever anyone wants to believe is fine. I'm sure it will be outdated eventually just like folklore. As soon as people start to realize that not EVERYTHING makes sense or is logical, and realize that you can never know everything. People just make up or believe in things to try to make sense of what they don't know. Religion is just a cushion for the mind of those who cannot comprehend that not everything is comprehendable.
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OrkanMan

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« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2004, 09:51:00 AM »
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Religion is just a cushion for the mind of those who cannot comprehend that not everything is comprehendable.




We may not be able to see God, but there is undeniable proof that (some form of) God exists:

An atom is the smallest component of an element.  Therefore, everything in the whole entire universe is composed of atoms.

If the world started from one single atom, where did the atom come from?  It had to of been put there by some divine presence because there is no other explanation for it.  If you don't believe in God, you must believe in magic.

To not believe in the Trinity (God, The Son, and the Holy Spirit) is one thing.  But to not believe there is a God is something totally different.

But heh, that's just my opinion so please don't harass me for it.



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Mozart.mp3

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« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2004, 09:56:00 AM »
Why would there HAVE to be a god. I have gotten this arguement before. But WHY must there be a god. Why couldn't that atom have just appared. That makes about as much sense as there being a god, or there being magic. We can all just relate to there being a god better because it is similar to us and it is easier for us to understand. There is no reason that there HAS to be a god. It's just one way of coping.
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Mozart.mp3

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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2004, 09:59:00 AM »
In most religions there is the belief that God allows free will. If that were correct, then I would be able to think for myself. But if you ponder that for awhile, who then puts the thoughts in my head? If god doesn't put them there, then they must come out of SOMEWHERE. But why? If a thought can pop into my head out of nowhere, then an atom can be created from nothing by no one.
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OrkanMan

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« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2004, 10:03:00 AM »
Mozart.mp3, I understand why you feel that way but to me, I think the world is too amazing to have just been an accident.

Look at child birth for example.  When you think about it, the whole process of a baby growing and being born is absolutely amazing.
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