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[jesusphreak]

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I think witht the book of Leviticus, as well as some other book sof the old testament,...you would have to take it with a grain of salt. These were accurate with the times. Remember people were still making animal sacrifices, and God had wiped out the entire planet with the great Flood. So what god was trying to do was instruct the people of those days how to live. They didn't have Jesus, nor did they have the holy spirit, plus only the priests could pray as well.

I tend to agree with all of what you are saying..........

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And If you don't beleive in Creation, that is you right. You can easily ignore all the scientific evidence as well as logic offered against Theistic/Athiestic Evolution. Hell, scientists loking for grants and teachers who worship Darwinist thinking all buy into, so why wouldn't the norm be acceptable? Igonrance is bliss, they say.

There really is a lot of evidence both ways. Also, both sides are a bit biased. It's interesting to note that the Big Bang theory and modern evolutionary theories need some kind of maker.......so...........

Anyway, I tend to see it this way. If you prove that creationism is right, it doesn't mean that it's a Christian God that did the creating. If you prove that evolution is right, it doesn't mean that it's not a Christian God who did the evoloving.

I'm more interested in the aspects of Biblical Christianity that give it a uniqueness that other religions simply cannot match...........

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To jsphreak... aren't you the one I see on Halo PC (demo) online under "JSFreaK" ?? The one who always says" read the bible!" ? thx

No, but I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one!

It seems like there are quite a few Christians on this board........awesome........

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Protestants are largely trash, are you sure you've made the right choice about how you're going to follow jesus?

I would agree with you.......

But I'm no protestant. I am a true believe of Jesus Christ....
It's what a lot of protestants are lacking..........

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You sir, have been indoctrinated Do you see how you immediately ridicule anything other than what you were taught?

Excuse me? I did not ridicule your idea. I questioned it and I brought supporting evidence against it. Don't ever tell me I've been indoctrinated or that I've been taught something. I was not raised in church. I did not become a Christian because it seemed like a good idea. I became a Christianity because that hand of God was very evident in what was happening around me and when the fuzzy feelings wore off and I started really questioning things, I did my research and found Christianity to have more real evidence than any other religion out there..........

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My "LITTLE" idea.. you immediately think of it as lesser than your belief and then progress to ridicule it. Is this what Jesus and your church taught you?

I don't think your idea is little. I'm ridiculing your image of god that you've placed before yourself and claimed as your own as if god is forced to be something that he's not or he is not God.

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If I would have said I followed Judaism or Islam would it still be a joke to you... what if I was Pagan... You seem to think Mormons are in a cult so I think anything not Christian to you is wrong.

There isn't any joking around here. THis is dead serious. I do tend to think that anything outside of biblical Christianity is wrong. It doesn't mean that I devalue you as a person or anything, but I hate the false religions of this world and the restraints they put on man. Do you have a problem with that?

[Colonel32]

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There isn't any joking around here. THis is dead serious. I do tend to think that anything outside of biblical Christianity is wrong. It doesn't mean that I devalue you as a person or anything, but I hate the false religions of this world and the restraints they put on man. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes, I do have a problem with your hate. Religion is an ideology to you. Thats what causes War and the prejudice that you've shown.  your belief system has alienated you from over half the world and you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that things might be different than the way you were raised. Would that not be called indoctrination?

Where exactly did Christianity come from...  

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I became a Christianity because that hand of God was very evident in what was happening around me and when the fuzzy feelings wore off and I started really questioning things, I did my research and found Christianity to have more real evidence than any other religion out there..........

Can you describe any of these real differences in comparison to the other religions you studied? What exactly is it about Christianity that is more "real" than say Judiasm. What is the "evidence" that made you choose Christianity over all the other religions.. are your parents Christian?

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I don't think your idea is little. I'm ridiculing your image of god that you've placed before yourself and claimed as your own as if god is forced to be something that he's not or he is not God.

Is that what I did? I said my God wouldn't teach Leviticus. My God wouldn't tell me to slave my daughter...

The only difference between my God and your God is I don't claim to know mine.

[Colonel32]

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE (jesusphreak @ Jul 4 2004, 07:24 PM)

One of my favorite stories that I've heard on the trip is again about Colorado and the Mormon church (which I want everyone to know is not Christianity its a cult).

You apparently have no idea what the LDS church believes in then do you?  They are some of the best people i have associated with.  What is not Christian about them?

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If the Mormon church could build their temple in view of the whole city, it would just be a sick message.

What about their message would be sick?

Don't go bashing another religion when you don't know any truth about it.  Typical of most protestant christians

[nemt]

QUOTE (Foe-hammer @ Jul 4 2004, 10:45 PM)

You apperently have no idea what the LDS church believes in then, do you?  They are some of the best people i have associated with.  What is not Christian about them?

They think Jesus came to north america, and the israelites were killed by indians.

Doesn't that sound a little off to you?

Mormons are usually very good people, but their religion is ridiculous, infantile, and much like a cult.

[OrkanMan]

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I mean, don't get me wrong, Christians themselves do bad stuff, we aren't perfect, but I think a lot of you have had bad experiences with fake Christianity (you know, the Benny Hinns of this world (you pay me, I'll heal you). That stuff is absolutely fake.

A couple of years ago, I went to a Benny Hinn crusade in Columbus, Ohio.  There were 21,000 people in the arena and I saw first hand how lives were changing in that room.

Let me ask you something...When Benny Hinn invites 21,000 to the front of the arena to pray and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their savior, is that fake Christianity?  When Benny Hinn hands out bibles to anyone who would like one, is that fake Christianity?

Benny Hinn spends 365 days a year traveling the world and telling people about Jesus Christ.  How dare you call Benny Hinn a fake Christian.


EDIT:  I am commenting on something I've seen first hand.  Unlike yourself, I have actually been to a Benny Hinn crusade, enjoyed myself, and came home with a free bible.

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Jesusphreak, I think you're a good person and I don't want to sound mean.  So, I hope you take what I say into consideration and don't look at this post as just a flame towards yourself.

[nemt]

QUOTE (OrkanMan @ Jul 4 2004, 10:52 PM)

Benny Hinn spends 365 days a year traveling the world and telling people about Jesus Christ.  How dare you call Benny Hinn a fake Christian.

I must've missed the part of the gospel where christ sends everyone a bill for his services.

[OrkanMan]

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I must've missed the part of the gospel where christ sends everyone a bill for his services.

What bill?  Don't you think it costs money to fly you, your stagecrew, and everyone else that you need?  Doesn't it cost money to hold a crusade in a public arena?

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE (nemt @ Jul 5 2004, 02:50 AM)

They think Jesus came to north america, and the israelites were killed by indians. Doesn't that sound a little off to you? Mormons are usually very good people, but their religion is ridiculous, infantile, and much like a cult.

They believe that Christ came to not only the Americas, but visited the rest of world before he ascended to heaven.  I don't know how that is so ridiculous or cult like.  This is talked about in a book they revere as scripture called the book of Mormon, and mentioned by Christ himself in the bible; something about other sheep that were not of the fold of Jerusalem that he must visit.  The Israelites being killed by Indians is off though, I don't know where you heard that from.  The book of Mormon does talks about a family of Israelites that sailed to America as directed by the Lord.

[nemt]

QUOTE (OrkanMan @ Jul 4 2004, 11:00 PM)

What bill?  Don't you think it costs money to fly you, your stagecrew, and everyone else that you need?  Doesn't it cost money to hold a crusade in a public arena?

I don't remember the part where jesus needed a stagecrew either...

[OrkanMan]

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Doesn't it cost money to hold a crusade in a public arena?

Nemt:  Why don't you try answering that question?              

[nemt]

QUOTE (OrkanMan @ Jul 4 2004, 11:18 PM)

Nemt:  Why don't you try answering that question?

Yes, it does, but the bible never says you should have a crusade in a public arena.

No one should need to pay to hear the word of god, and anyone charging money for religious services is a cheat, and no christian at all.  It's not suprising they're all protestants anyway.

[OrkanMan]

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No one should need to pay to hear the word of god, and anyone charging money for religious services is a cheat, and no christian at all. It's not suprising they're all protestants anyway.

Like I said, I've been to a Benny Hinn Crusade.  It ddidn't cost me one dime to get in the door.

[Mr. Chips]

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There is a team of people from the ICR right now in Africa trying to "prove" that snakes had vocal chords at one time because they spoke in the garden. Very healthy

That is an exteme example of a sect of Creationists.
Like all religous groups, each sect follows different doctrines.
Some Creationists believe the big bang was God's creation model.  Interpreting "6 days" as (m/b)illions of years.
You could call this diversity in belief reason to doubt all religion, however, all christians DO agree on a fundamental doctrine...  that Salvation comes through Jesus Christ.
However we got here, we need to focus on why we are here, and what is my purpose.  This is what we all ask ourselves at some point in time.  Am I on a spinning rock hurtling through space, with no purpose?  Or is there a loving creator who has a plan for me?

[jesusphreak]

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Yes, I do have a problem with your hate. Religion is an ideology to you. Thats what causes War and the prejudice that you've shown. your belief system has alienated you from over half the world and you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that things might be different than the way you were raised. Would that not be called indoctrination?

Settle down, buddy. I'm not hating here. I'm disagreeing. Religion is not an ideology to me; it is my life. Christ himself said, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself, carry his cross, and follow me".

I've already told you, I was not raised a CHristian. I became one a few years ago. I've not alienated myself from half the world. You'll find that Christianity is today breaking chains that have lasted for thousands of years (the Hindu caste system which sets some people as "Untouchables" and makes them clean sewers and die of leprosy). I think CHristianity is going out into the world and trying to change it.

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Where exactly did Christianity come from...

Christianity came from roots dating far back into the Jewish religion. As early as Genesis 3,

"15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [1] and hers;
he will crush [2] your head,
and you will strike his heel."

Even the Jews of Christ's day saw this as a prophecy of the Messiah.

Look at Psalm 22.

This is a picture of the cross.

Micah 5:2 says, "But out of you Bethlehem, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come one who will be for me a ruler of all Israel, whose origins are from ancient days".

Bethlehem was the setting of Christ's birth.

Zechariah 9:9

"9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion!
Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem!
See, your king [2] comes to you,
righteous and having salvation,
gentle and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey."

Ironic that Christ came into Jerusalem riding on a donkey?

Zechariah 12:10 -

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit [1] of grace and supplication. They will look on [2] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

God is speaking in this verse. Is it strange that he says that they will mourn for the one they have pierced? God being pierced? When did that happen?

Isiaiah 53 -

"4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions (sins),
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all."

This is the very gospel of Jesus Christ.

NOW, what you must understand is that every single quote I just gave you is from the Old Testament (ie. before Christ). Most from tradition are stated to be before 400 BC (400 years before Christ), but even if you don't believe that, the Dead Sea scrolls are dated to 200 - 150 years BC (and they contain the entire Old Testament except for the book of Esther).

Therefore, we have direct prophecies about who the Messiah must be. He must be born in Bethlehem, he comes from the tribe of Judah, he enters Jerusalem on a donkey, he dies for the sins of the people, etc, etc....

So, how could Jesus decided where he was to be born at? How could he have decided his exact way of death? He couldn't have....

The only other option you get is that some clever Jews got together, pieced together a story from all these prophecies, and then went out and preached this fake lie that they knew to be a lie to the result of their repeated imprisonment, beatings, and eventual martyrdom (11 of the 12 disciples were executed). History tells us that these men gained nothing for doing this. Not only this, but their preaching started in a Jerusalem, the city a size of a small town these days where everyone could have known whether or not the story was true or not. Yet somehow, this fake story spread throughout not only Israel, but throughout the Roman Empire (under intense persecution) and became the predominant religion by 300 AD.

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Can you describe any of these real differences in comparison to the other religions you studied? What exactly is it about Christianity that is more "real" than say Judiasm. What is the "evidence" that made you choose Christianity over all the other religions.. are your parents Christian?

The very basic difference is in every other single religion except Biblical Christianity, you have to gain your "salvation" or "nirvana" through your own work and through you being good. Biblical Christianity is literally the only religion that says that you cannot do it that way, you have to let God save you. Religion is man reaching out to God, Christianity is God reaching out to man.

But then you could very simply look at other religions. Islam? Muhammad led many military expeditions in his lifetime to expand his religion and to destory the infidels. The Koran is very clear that Muhammad believed that Christians and Jews were infidels and were to be killed if they did not convert. Did Muhammad have something to gain? Yes, he sure did....

Buddhism? This is not as much a religion as a way of life. Buddha never claimed to be god, he never claimed there was a god, and he never claimed anything concerning the state of things. While Buddhism does work (physically your body relaxes and feels good due to the many different ways of Buddhism), but Buddhism answers no questions, and it doesn't try to. It also doesn't show itself in anyway to be divine.

Mormonism? Joseph Smith, who gained many wives, a lot of wealth and fanatical devotion? Joseph Smith the liar who said many, many things that never came true?
I've already covered them. The Book of Mormon is an absolute fraud and Mormonism itself, while producing hard workers and nice people also produces absolute ignorance (I've talked to their missionaries, when I tried to ask questions I was immediately accused of "persecuting the saints"), and it is just like any other religion, you work your way into heaven.

Hinduism? 300 million gods and counting. Gandhi himself, a devout Hindu, said "truth is god". Hinduism has absolutely no problem contradicting itself, but that doesn't matter because according to it, reality is what you make it. My chair I'm sitting in is true, is it god? No. You'll find that Hinduism is creating more shackles than it is freedom.

I'm sorry for being harsh, but I do not hate you, and I do not hate people of other religions. I hate these barriers that hold us down and are slowly killing people all over the world. Jesus claimed that he was "the way, the truth, and the life." He also said, "No one comes to the Father except through me". He was very exclusive in his statements. There isn't room for other religions. There is room for people in Christianity, but there isn't room for other religion when we could all die tommorrow.

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Is that what I did? I said my God wouldn't teach Leviticus. My God wouldn't tell me to slave my daughter...

You are taking that way out of context, and you also need to understand that the world of 2000 years ago was much different than the world of today. Leviticus is not intended to apply to us today.

The only difference between my God and your God is I don't claim to know mine.