Print

[drunkpug]

All over the board I see people bashing the usa of a.

I am from american and personally when every you bash us call us nazis and or call us the terriorist of the world fine. ok say it over and over and over you might just think it is true.

but guess what.. we dont care period..

quick run down of history here

ww1 america saves the day
ww2 america saves the jewish population of europe, and europe its self.
korean war. America stops the commies from taking over s. koria. Look at the difference now between south koria and north.
Desert Storm= America drives saddam back into his country after taking over another
Afghan War= America destryos the taliban and smokes out al quada training camps.
Iraq war= America takes baghdad in 2 weeks takes out saddam....

ok now look what happend after all of these wars.

Germany= Gave back the power to the people
Japan=Gave back power to the people
Italy=Gave back power to the people
S.Korea=Gave back power to the people
Japan=Gave back power to the people
Iraq=Around the time of January of next year power will be handed back to a IRAQ goverment. If at that time they request American troops to leave they will. That has been stated clearly here in the us.

ok so now we have a track record of not being a imperialistic country. unlike lets say... great brittan, france, germany, italy, russia, china we dont take over countrys and then occupy them.

so keep posting page upon page of rethoric against us. We dont care... has anything anyone ever said 2 us changed our mindes? nope and it wont anytime soon.

[nemt]

The USA has done a lot of good things as well as a lot of not so good things.  Overall, the USA needs to lookout for itself, but many times has the world's best interests at heart.  Whether the socialists in europe would like to admit it or not, they need the United States more than the US needs them, and they owe the US a debt they can never repay.  Nevertheless, the US has made mistakes in the past, but it cannot move past these mistakes if enemies of the US, both political and military, are supported on many levels by the world.

[Banj]

I swear the whole WWII thing never gets old does it. The only fuckers you saved was yourselves so don't think you were in it for the good of anyone but America. If Britain had fallen, you'd have been next.

[nemt]

QUOTE (Banj @ May 20 2004, 01:33 PM)

I swear the whole WWII thing never gets old does it. The only fuckers you saved was yourselves so don't think you were in it for the good of anyone but America. If Britain had fallen, you'd have been next.

First of all, Britain was clearly not going to fall after the decisive victory in the battle of britain.  Secondly, by the time the Axis forces would've deployed to North America, they would be stretched to thin to even make a dent in the American military or civilian structure.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[ViNCe_V]

QUOTE (nemt @ May 20 2004, 06:35 PM)

First of all, Britain was clearly not going to fall after the decisive victory in the battle of britain.  Secondly, by the time the Axis forces would've deployed to North America, they would be stretched to thin to even make a dent in the American military or civilian structure. You don't know what you're talking about.

Apparently neither do you. As a matter of fact, America joined the war for one reason: itself. Pearl harbor got the US into the war (although it was known that it was going to happen.) IN FACT, did you know the USA conducted a training manuever where they did the exact thing the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor. Where do you think the Japanese got the idea?

Secondly, having taken over all of europe would make your forces NOT THIN, but quite large. That mixed with the fact that Germany was using unconventional warfare (such as chemical bombs) would have devastated the US. Plus, Germany also had one hell of an army and air force.

And, Britain would have fallen to Germany. They were at the end of the road. It is impossible to say that Britain could have defeated Germany after it was like the only country left unconquered and had already suffered defeats. America did help Britain out there, but it was not out of kindness. America won its way out of The Great Depression by the great economical boost given by the war. (Much as Bush was trying to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. However, since he is to stupid to even tie his shoelaces right, he did not do a very good job at it.)

1) Try paying attention in history class if you are still in school
                             OR
2) Try to do a little research (NOT on the internet, but in books at the library).

[nemt]

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:06 PM)

Apparently neither do you. As a matter of fact, America joined the war for one reason: itself. Pearl harbor got the US into the war (although it was known that it was going to happen.) IN FACT, did you know the USA conducted a training manuever where they did the exact thing the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor. Where do you think the Japanese got the idea?

I really don't see your point here, has anyone ever contested Pearl Harbor as the catalyst for US involvement in the second world war?  Anyone, ever?  

...and why would the Americans conduct a training drill to bomb its own port...unless you're implying the US trained to bomb a Japanese port, which would be ridiculous considering the control Japan had over the Pacific at the time and the infeasability of approaching Japan itself.  Let's ignore this obvious idiocy and say you're right, you even said "i was known that it was going to happen," so would this criminalize the US for preparing to defend itself from an imminent attack?

Are you even making a token attempt to make sense?

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:06 PM)

Secondly, having taken over all of europe would make your forces NOT THIN, but quite large. That mixed with the fact that Germany was using unconventional warfare (such as chemical bombs) would have devastated the US. Plus, Germany also had one hell of an army and air force.

Your force gets larger as it spread out, you must be some sort of logistical genius, because no general in history has been able to accomplish this.  The Axis military didn't just invade and then leave, with a note saying "Seriously, listen to Hitler everyone, kthx bye."  As for the unconventional warfare, the V2 and V3 rockets could barely reach London, let alone another continent, but then again, this is all assuming you knew what you were talking about when you wrote your reply in the first place.  I still don't see where you're going with this.  "Germany lost the war, but they could've won, America sucks," am I getting warmer?

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:06 PM)

And, Britain would have fallen to Germany. They were at the end of the road. It is impossible to say that Britain could have defeated Germany after it was like the only country left unconquered and had already suffered defeats. America did help Britain out there, but it was not out of kindness. America won its way out of The Great Depression by the great economical boost given by the war. (Much as Bush was trying to do with Iraq and Afghanistan. However, since he is to stupid to even tie his shoelaces right, he did not do a very good job at it.)

Britain didn't fall to Germany, the British won the Battle of Britain.  Maybe in your alternate reality the Nazis won, but we're talking about facts here.  Britain was not the only country left "unconquered" by any stretch of the imagination, have you ever heard of Russia?  You know, the guys who did half the fighting?  Wartime economy did boost the USA out of the depression, but I fail to see how that can be spun into something to be used against the US.  You obviously have very little understanding of contemporary economics, or even basic economic principals, as increased spending (ie: war) and decreases taxes are the only fiscal policies (the policy set by congress/white house as opposed to the federal reserve) able to increase output.  The economy of the United States is growing more rapidly than it has in decades, and unemployment is the same as it were in 1994, ten years ago, 5.6% - which is nothing compared to Europe.  I'd also like to see some proof of Bush being "to stupid to even tie his shoelaces right," as you have just proven yourself to be "to stupid" to spell "too" correctly.  

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:06 PM)

1) Try paying attention in history class if you are still in school                               OR 2) Try to do a little research (NOT on the internet, but in books at the library).

I did pay attention, which enabled me to win arguments with facts, as opposed to random conjecture and irrelevant insults towards those in power.  You appear to be the one who needs to do research, in history, economics, and middle school english.

Cheers

[ViNCe_V]

QUOTE (drunkpug @ May 20 2004, 05:49 PM)

quick run down of history here ww1 america saves the day ww2 america saves the jewish population of europe, and europe its self. korean war. America stops the commies from taking over s. koria. Look at the difference now between south koria and north. Desert Storm= America drives saddam back into his country after taking over another Afghan War= America destryos the taliban and smokes out al quada training camps. Iraq war= America takes baghdad in 2 weeks takes out saddam....

WW1 - US Saves the day....hooray! I do know much about this war so I cannot say anything...

WW2 - US Saves Itself from the Great Depression. Know this, it was planned to get the USA in the war. THAT'S A FACT, go read papers if you dont believe me. Official government documents even say this is so. As far as the Jewish population is concerned, the Germans would not have stopped at the Germans. They would have moved onto the next group (looks like America is continuing on here with people from the Middle East). That is why America got into WW2, and they only saved the day because of GERMAN scientists who left Germany because they hated Hitler. If it were not for these scientists, USA would have never had the weapons it had (say the atomic bomb??).

Korean War - Stop Commies....hooray! Guess what? The reason South Korea is doing better than North Korea is because the US poured money into the country to ressurect it. North Korea on the other hand was treated harshly and given no support (I bet others were even prevented from giving support to it, but I do not know this as a fact.)

Desert Storm - Follow UN Rules....hooray! You stopped Iraq from invading Kuwait. Then, in the 21st century you invade Iraq while disobeying UN regulations? In fact, you invade a foreign country, declare war, and ALL WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS?! Anyone else see a violation of the US Constitution? Furthermore, the US is the one that got the great deal out of Desert Storm. They were able to exploit both Kuwait and Iraq in the end. By positioning troops in Kuwait and restricting the rights of Iraq, they were able to exploit two countries with one stone, sort of speak.

Iraq War - Invading a foreign country against UN regulations. Forcing other countries to join you, to quote Bush, "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror." I realize this doesn't mean the other countries had to join. Just like you didn't HAVE to give your lunch money to the bully on the playground, right? Not only that, he violated the US Constitution when he declared his stupid War on Terror. By the way, do you know over 780 US soldiers have died in one year in Iraq? Many Predict this will end like Vietnam. Oh, btw, you never did mention Vietnam! Remember the war where you killed 3 Million Vietnamese people in an act to help France spread its imperialism? Remember the war where you bombed neighboring countries (Cambodia and Laos) in an effect to get the VC (Vietcong Cong / Charlie) who may have been hiding there? Remember the war where you lost? Who knows, Iraq could be another Vietnam, then again, it could be another Samoa. The US has successfully set up democracy in 1/11 (it may have been 1/13, I do not remember the exact number, it was something like this) colonies it has overtaken. Pretty good odds for someone who wants to bet that Iraq will not be able to sustain a democracy. Furthermore, your Iraq War has cost billions of dollars and left you with no reason as to why you are there. Did you know a similar thing happened in Vietnam? At first soldiers in Iraq said they were there for WMD --> Terrorism ---> Iraqi Freedom. Changing reasons means there is no clear cut way to get out of the country. I bet America will be in Iraq for many years (and people will really start opposing this war once the draft starts up again. You do know Bush is trying to get the draft going again soon right?)

Wow.....If I was you, I'd rethink what I typed earlier.

EDIT:
Please visit www.bushflash.com to see the US invasions from a different point of view. Then visit your local library to see how history really happened. Then reply.

This post has been edited by ViNCe_V: May 20 2004, 05:43 PM

[nemt]

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:30 PM)

Wow.....If I was you, I'd rethink what I typed earlier.

If I were your parents, I'd rethink the whole contraception thing.


Also:

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:30 PM)

In fact, you invade a foreign country, declare war, and ALL WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS?!

What on earth are you talking about?  Congress voted tremendously in favor of the Iraq war.  Maybe you're confused as to what "congress" and the "UN" are.

This post has been edited by nemt: May 20 2004, 05:46 PM

[ViNCe_V]

QUOTE (nemt @ May 20 2004, 07:35 PM)

If I were your parents, I'd rethink the whole contraception thing. Also: What on earth are you talking about?  Congress voted tremendously in favor of the Iraq war.  Maybe you're confused as to what "congress" and the "UN" are.

What a great argument....LOL

Btw, when President Bush declared his war on terror and invaded Afghanistan, it was WITHOUT congress approval  

[self]

QUOTE (drunkpug @ May 20 2004, 04:49 PM)

All over the board I see people bashing the usa of a.

And instead of trying to argue with those people you bring up a list of things the US has done in the past. It's pointless.

[nemt]

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 02:41 PM)

Btw, when President Bush declared his war on terror and invaded Afghanistan, it was WITHOUT congress approval

What's your point?  The President is given the power by the US Constitution to deploy troops without seeking congressional approval, and Bush isn't the first president to execute this power, not by a longshot.

Also, what does that have to do with the war in Iraq?

You're a stupid fourteen year old, and have no business talking politics with anyone, anywhere, for any reason.

[ViNCe_V]

QUOTE (nemt @ May 20 2004, 07:49 PM)

What's your point?  The President is given the power by the US Constitution to deploy troops without seeking congressional approval, and Bush isn't the first president to execute this power, not by a longshot. Also, what does that have to do with the war in Iraq? You're a stupid fourteen year old, and have no business talking politics with anyone, anywhere, for any reason.

Incorrect Again!

It has everything to do with the war in Iraq. Historically, when a war like the one in Iraq directly follows another in Afghanistan, it is pretty clear the two are linked in more ways than one.

And, one of the powers reserved to Congress by the US Constitution is the power to declare war. When President Bush invaded Afghanistan and declared his little war on terror, he violated this reserved power, in turn violating the checks and balances system. Had he simply placed ground troops in Afghanistan, that would have been a different story. And like I said, the two wars (mentioned above) are linked, only time will tell the true details into the depth of the linkage (wow, is that even a word? lol).

And, name another 14 year old who provided an in-depth answer like the ones above? You refute my arguements with simple lines. Which are easly refuted by me. It is you who seem to be the immature one.

[nemt]

QUOTE (ViNCe_V @ May 20 2004, 03:00 PM)

And, name another 14 year old who provided an in-depth answer like the ones above? You refute my arguements with simple lines. Which are easly refuted by me. It is you who seem to be the immature one.

You haven't provided an in-depth answer to anything, you didn't even respond to my critique of your ridiculous world war 2 post.  You never have the facts straight, and your arguments are based on "BUSH IS STUPID" and "GERMANY WOULD'VE BEATEN AMERICA."  You're an idiot, and you should find a new forum.

This post has been edited by nemt: May 20 2004, 06:12 PM

[ViNCe_V]

Hm....it seems you have provided an in-depth answer. Let me respond.

QUOTE

...and why would the Americans conduct a training drill to bomb its own port...

The Japanese had spies in and around Pearl Harbor. The US conducted the mission as a means to warn its soldiers that they could easily be attacked. The true purpose may have been to incite the Japanese, but no one knows.

QUOTE

you even said "i was known that it was going to happen," so would this criminalize the US for preparing to defend itself from an imminent attack?

No. However, for putting its own people at risk for a publicity stunt to thrust itself into war, then I would criminalize it. It was not an imminent attack. Similar to the Alamo. Wow, history sure likes to repeat itself! 9/11 theories anyone?

QUOTE

Your force gets larger as it spread out, you must be some sort of logistical genius, because no general in history has been able to accomplish this.  The Axis military didn't just invade and then leave, with a note saying "Seriously, listen to Hitler everyone, kthx bye."  As for the unconventional warfare, the V2 and V3 rockets could barely reach London, let alone another continent, but then again, this is all assuming you knew what you were talking about when you wrote your reply in the first place.  I still don't see where you're going with this.  "Germany lost the war, but they could've won, America sucks," am I getting warmer?

Your forces get larger as you conquer lands and gain men from those lands? You honestly don't believe a conquered area would not help its conquers? Let's look at some Iraqi soldiers and US soldiers?

Germany lost the war, that is true. Due to the German scientists that developed the US weapons. Its an ironic turn of events. Which is why I mentioned it. America sucks in that it sees nothing wrong in what it does.

And, had germany been giving the chance to conquer Europe. The Axis Powers would have taken over the United States in a heart beat. Mix German brutality with the Japanese unrelenting will to fight (die before giving up....wow!). US wouldn't have stood a chance. Only by having allies could it withstand the force, so it had to step in and save the UK, then in turn free France, etc. etc. BTW, do you even know why Nagasaki and Hiroshima were nuked? Even though Nagasaki had no military strong holds and was mainly a Christian city? Hm....Story for another day perhaps.

QUOTE

You know, the guys [Russia] who did half the fighting?

True, Russians did do alot of the fighting. In fact, many can argue that the war could not have been won without them. I am at a loss for words why I did not include them in my last reply.

You cannot honestly tell me you expected Britain to last against Germany? The mere thought is laughable.

QUOTE

Wartime economy did boost the USA out of the depression, but I fail to see how that can be spun into something to be used against the US.

Spinning Time. The USA purposely lead the destruction of its fleet at Pearl Harbor. Thrusting itself into a war to pull itself out of a great depression. It then nukes a country TWICE and "helps" out the rest of Europe. It was good for the Europeans, but bad for the Japanese (no military anymore----sort of, they can still have a small navy, etc.) and the Germans (who were left to repay all the debts of the war...)

And, Russia failed not because of a war, but rather because of Communism. You know, the sole enemy of communism and the reason the US was involved in multiple wars.

QUOTE

You obviously have very little understanding of contemporary economics, or even basic economic principals, as increased spending (ie: war) and decreases taxes are the only fiscal policies (the policy set by congress/white house as opposed to the federal reserve) able to increase output.  The economy of the United States is growing more rapidly than it has in decades, and unemployment is the same as it were in 1994, ten years ago, 5.6% - which is nothing compared to Europe.  I'd also like to see some proof of Bush being "to stupid to even tie his shoelaces right," as you have just proven yourself to be "to stupid" to spell "too" correctly.

Increased spending in return for the manufacturing of weapons, ammo, planes, all the necesities of wars produces a PROFIT, not an expense. And, the economy of today is in trouble, you do know that right? With every state in debt, school systems cutting budgets, bush spending billions on useless programs (Iraqi Freedom + No Child Left Behind). Useless in my opinion, maybe not in yours.

As for the proof of Bush being stupid. Please go to www.google.com and type in Bush Quotes. Then prepare to laugh your ass off.

QUOTE

I did pay attention, which enabled me to win arguments with facts, as opposed to random conjecture and irrelevant insults towards those in power.  You appear to be the one who needs to do research, in history, economics, and middle school english.

Its too bad you did not win...

I refuted with facts, and my arguements were not irrelevant as that is what the original post in this topic was about. And, I am constantly researching, it is one of the things I find fun.  

Thanks for the momentary thought-provoking argument, those are rare on this forum. Back to painting Monkey-Bush faces on my xbox....

[ViNCe_V]

QUOTE (nemt @ May 20 2004, 08:05 PM)

You haven't provided an in-depth answer to anything, you didn't even respond to my critique of your ridiculous world war 2 post.  You never have the facts straight, and your arguments are based on "BUSH IS STUPID" and "GERMANY WOULD'VE BEATEN AMERICA."  You're an idiot, and you should find a new forum.

I had not seen your original post, I have responded.  

Patience grasshopper, no need to get angry. Those who become angry, will often resort to violence and irrationality.

Ok, I dont know what that was...But oh well