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[Maximumbeing]

Saddam was given over a decade to cooperate. - Nemt

Funny, I remember Saddam welcoming all the UN inspectors and doing pretty much whatever we asked...No, that wasn't enough for our courageous dictator, Bush had to make sure he was top-gun in the battle of WMD.

I don't exactly get your side of the Just-War theory raptor, you tell it from the bible's point of view, but didn't that book inspire the crusades? Purely defense right? Actually a defensive war was called a Jihad, but only the muslims had a word for DEFENSIVE war...

When it comes to the media, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly both have more influence than any liberal I know of, luckily for us broad-constructionalist thinking individuals there is a liberal radio station going up soon, including one of my favorites: Al Franken.

[nemt]

QUOTE (Maximumbeing @ May 21 2004, 03:23 PM)

Funny, I remember Saddam welcoming all the UN inspectors and doing pretty much whatever we asked...No, that wasn't enough for our courageous dictator, Bush had to make sure he was top-gun in the battle of WMD.

Your memory is wrong, then.  Were you drinking heavily in 1998 when Saddam expelled all UN inspection teams?  How about in 2002 when inspectors found locked doors and sealed access in nearly every top priority site?

QUOTE (Maximumbeing @ May 21 2004, 03:23 PM)

I don't exactly get your side of the Just-War theory raptor, you tell it from the bible's point of view, but didn't that book inspire the crusades? Purely defense right? Actually a defensive war was called a Jihad, but only the muslims had a word for DEFENSIVE war...

The bible didn't inspire the crusades, nor is it the basis of the just war theory.  The crusades were a response to Islamic occupation of the holy land, and the just war theory was developed throughout the 16th and 17th centuries based on contemporary church teachings.  Jihad has no defensive connotation, it simply means "A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels."  The koran also repeatedly encourages violence and forced conversion throughout.

QUOTE (Maximumbeing @ May 21 2004, 03:23 PM)

When it comes to the media, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly both have more influence than any liberal I know of, luckily for us broad-constructionalist thinking individuals there is a liberal radio station going up soon, including one of my favorites: Al Franken.

Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly don't have more influence then the combined media coverage of the world, which is solidly anti-us.  Err America has already "gone up," and it's already struggling to retain sponsors and was even forced to have an open call for radio hosts.  Also, I wish I had seen your praise for Al Franken sooner, so I wouldn't have bothered writing this all out for you.  Only an idiot would take political advice from a COMEDIAN, a comedian who can't even think up an original name for his show or book.

[Maximumbeing]

QUOTE

Your memory is wrong, then. Were you drinking heavily in 1998 when Saddam expelled all UN inspection teams? How about in 2002 when inspectors found locked doors and sealed access in nearly every top priority site?

I doubt it, seeing as we've occupied Iraq for quite some time now, and guess what? No WMDs, so there'd really be nothing to hide. In addition, had he any WMDs, don't you think he'd fire them when under the barrel of the Coalition forces?

QUOTE

The crusades were a response to Islamic occupation of the holy land,

Oh, you mean the holy land promised to the Israelites as in the old testament? Yeah, good call there.

QUOTE

Only an idiot would take political advice from a COMEDIAN, a comedian who can't even think up an original name for his show or book.

It's hardly political advice I'm taking, it provided amusement though, just as a comedian should. I think his titles were somewhat inspired, the fact that Bill O'Reilly and Fox News were so pissed about the title being stolen gave me some entertainment, again, just as a comedian is supposed to do. I think the real comedian is Rush Limbaugh, he's like a god when it comes to sniffing out liberal propaganda, and when I say liberal propaganda, I mean substantial fact or valid evidence.

Bill O'Reilly is an ass, that's about as far as I'm gonna go with that one.

[nemt]

QUOTE (Colonel32 @ May 21 2004, 05:04 PM)

Nemt: this surprised me coming from you. Thats not true - those inspectors were never kicked out of Iraq by Saddam that was media rhetoric. Fairness in the media.org

Regardless of the reason, the fact reamins the inspectors were given no choice but to leave, as Saddam had not complied with UN mandates.

[Banj]

[nemt]

QUOTE (Banj @ May 21 2004, 05:40 PM)

I'd be interested to know Americas situation with WMD, funny how you never hear anyone asking to see theirs. I bet the fuckers are riddled with all manner of nasty shit.

The USA doesn't invade its neighbors or murder thousands of its citizens.  The USA, as a first world country, is also compelled to keep peace in the world, and you can't do that with candy canes and good intentions.

[Maximumbeing]

Seriously Nemt, you just keep your eyes open and let us now when this promised peace gets here.

[nemt]

QUOTE (HeLiuM @ May 21 2004, 08:08 PM)

As a first world country, the US should be responsible enough to cooperate with other first world countries to bring peace to the world, not go gungho into the middle east guns-a-blazin.  This war has brought anything but peace.

Maybe when the "other first world countries" stop getting kickbacks and illegal deals with dictators, and the UN becomes the higher power beyond corruption it used to be, that can happen - but until then, it's every state for itself, and the US won't step down - ever.

"There is no cave or hole deep enough to hide from justice."

[nemt]

QUOTE

A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?

QUOTE

"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"

QUOTE

New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.

QUOTE

A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."

QUOTE

"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."

QUOTE

"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."

QUOTE

through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.

QUOTE

The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."

Source: WorldNet Daily

[Banj]

QUOTE (Banj @ May 21 2004, 05:40 PM)
I'd be interested to know Americas situation with WMD, funny how you never hear anyone asking to see theirs. I bet the fuckers are riddled with all manner of nasty shit.  


Nemt - "The USA doesn't invade its neighbors or murder thousands of its citizens. The USA, as a first world country, is also compelled to keep peace in the world, and you can't do that with candy canes and good intentions."


So basically what you're saying is you're allowed them becuase we're a first world country? You can't seriously say the USA doesn't murder thousands of citizens (wether theirs or other countries is moot) and not be biting you lip. Nemt, I've always read your posts with interest as you have the strength of your own conviction to make an argument worth considering but fuck me, you've just posted a load of fucking shite. There can be no double standards with WMD, it's hypocritical to INVADE another country on the pretence of dissarming their WMD when you have a shed full in your own garden.

[Intensecure]

Banj - I have to leave this thread - you are more than capable of argueing this from what I see

[nemt]

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 22 2004, 04:55 AM)

The US continues to develop nuclear based weapons at an alarming rate

Alarming to whom?  Treehugging hippies, yes.  Anti-nuclear activists, yes.  Enemies of the US, yes.  This is the point, you're not supposed to like it.  They're meant to scare you, and they're doing the job well.  It's not alarming to anyone with common sense, as the US has shown nothing but restraint with nuclear weapons.

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 22 2004, 04:55 AM)

- in violation of international treaties.

You can't violate a treaty you're not a part of.  The defense of the US shouldn't be jeopardized by cold war era pacts with no relevance to contemporary political climates.

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 22 2004, 04:55 AM)

Yet complains when North Korea etc wishes to develop their own.

Yes, it's "alarming" when a communist country run by a clinically unwell despot, which has already expressed anti-us sentiment as well as invaded or threatened South Korea on numerous occassions, developes weapons capable of killing millions, because unlike the US, he is not a world leader in research and peacekeeping, and has shown no responsibility, restraint, or right to have such weapons.  The US also doesn't have more humanitarian atrocities and UN sanctions than it knows what to do with, either.

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 22 2004, 04:55 AM)

Who gave the US the right to decide who does what? No-one. Except the US govt.

The government which invented these weapons, I'd say that gives them a liscense to do whatever they wants, but don't take my word for it: the US has always been a leader in peacekeeping, and needs to have the most powerful weaponry available.  To say "why does the us get WMD but iraq doesn't" is to expose how ignorant, and resistant to logic you idiots truly are.  There are plenty of semi-valid arguments against the war, and this is the weakest one - it's used by straw grasper who know they're wrong, and want to cling to some ridiculous ideal of communist-like equality among states which are obviously not equal.

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 22 2004, 04:55 AM)

You DON"T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO DOES WHAT. Get it? Because you are the major super power now that the USSR is dismantled. It was the USSR that kept YOU in check, not the other way around.

I don't have to right to, no, but the US has a right to protect itself.  Your views on the cold war would be "alarming," and if they weren't so downright idiotic.

QUOTE (Intensecure @ May 22 2004, 04:55 AM)

Now that you have been "unleashed" we may well see the "nuclear light" possibly in our lifetime .

This doesn't even make sense, in any event: yours is the stupidest post I've seen since 67thraptorbull's greatest hits tour, by the way

I'm done writing these long replies to you assholes, you never learn, and in the end, you're still as ignorant and barren of all political knowledge as ever, because in the eyes of any liberal, the facts are insiginificant as long as you can still twist words and spin the truth.

[melon]

)

[melon]

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I can tell you why America is hated around the world. QUOTE Hope Bush gets re-elected and all the liberals move to Europe. Actually I think they would all run out of money and become another third world country who depends on aid from the US and then bastardize the US for not giving enough. So funny how a group of people who espouses to "tolerance" is the most intollerant. And honestly, I dont give a shit anymore why arabs dont like us. Im more concerned of why I dont like them. TSOPrano get your head out of your ass and go to moveon.org where people believe in black helicopters and dont believe in God. They will welcome someone like you. This idiot is one of the reasons. The people of America are seen as stupid - harry potter and the philosophers stone was changed to sorcerers stone. You are seen as uneducated and ignorent about the rest of the world. Even though Britain is meant to be your closest ally what do you actually know about the place? Who is the opposition leader? Where is it on a world map? Can you name five English Cities? Do you know where Scotland and Wales are? These may seem like stupid questions but how many of you can name the French President? Or the German, Japenese, Russian? Part of the reason your hated is because of the total ignorance of any other country. Another reason is your foriegn policy (I am repeating myself from another thread now), but at university in America, students who study International Relations get indocterated with the "American way" of doing things. My girlfriend Studied International Relations in England and she was taught to come up with her own ideas. She had to look at other ways of doing things, communism, fascism, whether they be correct or not she was taught to open her mind and consider others. It is this arrogance that the American way is correct, and the fact EVERYBODY feels Americans hold the rest of the world in contempt (proved by the quote above), that leads to hatred. American dumb tourists are mocked and disliked worldwide There is also the fact your multinationals in cohorts with your government will fuck anybody who gets in there way. The IMF (basically a branch of your government), had already fucked up Jamaica and it was in a bad state. One of the last goods Jamaica could export was Banannas. Because Jamaica was an ex-colony of ours, our government allowed them to import banannas without paying any import tax, this was a pathetic attempt by our government to right many wrongs but it was still something. The problem was chiquitos couldnt dominate our market because of the Jamaican banannas. What was the solution? President Clinton (at the time), took the UK to the International trade court to stop us giving Jamaica this feable tax break. The reult? Virtually all Jamaican bannana plants closed as they couldnt compete with the might of chiquitos. By the way where do there Banannas come from? Not one bannana they sell is grown in the USA. I know and I suggest you find out how much blood they have on thier hands! I can give you another example, I will even keep it with Jamaica. Jamaica use to produce its own milk, they had diary farms. An American company who produced powdered milk thought untouched market. The USA government subsidied the powdered milk too such a level it was far cheaper buy it rather than the fresh, locally produced milk. Slowly the local diary farms went out of business, a country with already vast unemployment had 1000's more people without work. Once they had all gone out of business the government stopped subsidising the powdered milk which instantly shot up in price. Far more than what the local fresh milk was sold at, and the people had to spend a lot more of thier pittance on a basic provision which once had health benefits. Your Governmant helped them do this! The problem is I could give you examples in every country in the world Here is a video which will show you how bad it is I could mention the african women who if they became pregnant would be paid in powdered milk! Dictators are evil. They rule thier people through fear. They come in the night and take away your children and torture and kill you. Sound like Saddam? So why does your government put in dictators the world over. In far too many countries America has had a role in the overthrowing of a government, either by military action (troops or constant bombing?) or by supplying intelligence, training, wepons and equipment . Actually at any give time America is not in war with over 10 countries but still bombs them (IRAQ EXCLUDED). The arrogance! But it gets worse. Your government then instals a local high ranking military Officer as a leader. He controls with the army and takes complete control. Then all civil rites go out the window as your government gives them a nice sweetner every now then. All the leader has to do is keep his country in poverty by looking after his own and nobody else. Just so American corporations can bulldoze into the country and with American government subsidies undercut any local price and destroy local industry. This has happened worldwide, creating countries of mass unemployment. It does create a lot of jobs worldwide. Everybody has heard of a sweatshop. Look in whatever is in front of you. Where was your monitor made? How about the clothes your wearing? All American corporations are very good at this. Children the world over are brought up knowing they live in a hut with 20 others, they have to walk 3 miles just to get water which wont kill them. They know they have nothing, and every day they have to go to work in a factory for an American corporation (no weekends here a 7 day week standard), for a tiny amount to live on but they have to as your corporations have completely abolished local industry. Your governmant backs all this and helps!!!!! You act like a bully. Nobody likes a bully. It rules your argument, we're not as bad as he was, redundant. Your worse. And it all for the sake of more money for the very rich. Do you think you benefit? Sure an xbox costs $130 in the US and £130 here but you live in a country were you can be run over by a car, it drives off, an ambulance comes and if you havnt got insurance your screwed. Look at Cristopher Reeve. Superman. He was a movie star, millionare. He injured his back and the health care costs were so great he lost everything, even after very large donations from friends and for appearences. If he couldnt afford it can you? You can attack me if you want but the question was asked and I am giving you an accurate picture of the worlds view on the United States of America. I have travelled (10% of you own a passport), and this is how everybody sees your county. These are not my views I think there are some good people who dont have a politican to lead them. I just dont think they ever will. But if you acctually do wonder why. You wont hear it often but layed out is the reasons backed with fact and well articulated.

[nemt]

Since I'm done with long replies I'll just say this:

Neither you, nor your "girlfriend"  are intelligent, despite alleged degrees - and you both have ignorant, dangerous views on the united states and global politics.