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Author Topic: Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?  (Read 500 times)

rms2001

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« on: May 13, 2004, 11:14:00 PM »

I was going to make a post on Nick, but it seems you beat me to it. I don’t know how many of you have seen the uncut video, but is really screwed up.

But after talking to people around the world on this, and looking at the question you asked Boris, I really have to step back and think about what I saw.

When I was watching the video I was in total shock to how any one could ever do that to a human being. But after seeing the video and really thinking about it for awhile some thing didn’t make since at all, and the link you posted brings some of these points out.

The #1 thing that made me think is how he never fought back. Seems a little odd, he sat there quite for 4min while they read that. I'd be making the best effort to put as much hurt on them as I could. He moves very very little in the movie, all most like hes catatonic or on drugs.

#2, when the “leader” of the group pushed Nick over and proceded to saw his head off, Nick was more or less motionless. I know if that were me, I’d put up the biggest fight I could.

#3, When the knife went to work on Nick, the video got very very blurry. That to me seems a little odd, also how the blood seems to almost appear on the floor. Also there was no visible blood spay. While the terrorist was holding Nicks head up for the cam there was no blood.

#4 The video it self was not good at all. It looks like it was shot with a camcorder from 20 years ago. I know they have better cams than that over there. They have killed enough media people to get a nicer cam.

#5 The stance of the terrorists. They looks a lot of like an US Army solder stands, not you average rag head. Looks very well fed too, whens the last time you seen an Arab over 200lbs? I can’t think of any… When your fighting a war like they are, your always on the move and don’t have time to gain weight.

As I said, after seeing this video and thinking about it, seeing it again and really thinking about, it dose bring a lot of questions to mind of what really happened and was it really Nick Berg? Was the person beheaded all ready dead, or was it just a dummy?

And just one last note, it seems fairly easy to take Nicks head off. I don’t really know, but doesn’t it take a bit of force to cut thru the spinal cord? Thats a bit of bone and what not to cut thru, and the knife didn’t look all that aggressive, at least not enough to me to do that kind of damage to that much mass. Kinda gos back to my dummy question.
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BloodyMary

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2004, 12:28:00 AM »

Ok.... for the record...

The Nick Berg execution was not staged.  I skimmed quickly to the article that you posted the link to.  And reading through the points that the second poster brings up.  These are, I will grant you, interesting points, and to the uninformed, they will bring doubt about the video being real or not. And have you seen the whole 6 1/2 minute uncut video... the blood is gushing all over, and I'm sure there is no doubt in Nick Berg's father's mind that's his son.  As far as the not fighting, 1st of all, his hands and arms and ankles were all bound extremely and painfully tight.  And you can bet that he was also beaten and tortured before they did this to him.  If you see the whole video in it's entirety, all 6 1/2 minutes, and you educate yourself about the people that killed him, you will realize that it is not fake.  These people are evil beyond evil and to them, you are nothing more then a lamb for the slaughter.  I know there are several people that after seeing this would want to try to convince themselves that it is fake, because of the horrific impression and feeling that is left in you... it is natural to want to dismiss it as not real...

EDIT: I thought that I should add, that I have seen the chopped down, reencoded,shitty quality (less then 60 second) video that many websites are hosting... I can see why you would get the fake impression from that...
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rms2001

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2004, 01:05:00 AM »

I simply do not know what to think about this whole thing. Fake or not, it is truly barbaric. This reminds me of what happened to Daniel Pearl, the reporter. Not sure if a video was ever released of that, but I know there was one. I do remember seeing images of him in chains, and a pistol being held to his head. He was also beheaded if I remember right.

Maybe the beheading of Nick wasn’t faked, maybe it was real. I can’t really say. I’ve seen the video on broadcast station monitors, and on PC monitors. And to me it seems questionable. To many odd things to be a shut and closed case. You may be right, I just can’t bring me to accept it was real.

It’s a damn good thing I’m not a high ranking offer in Iraq right now. I’d march every one of them prisoners out and shoot each one. You’re a terrorist, you do not deserve to live, end of story. Sure wouldn’t have a job much longer. They want a war, I say we give them one. Guess that puts me in the same category as a terrorist, but you have to fight fire with fire.
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rms2001

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2004, 01:37:00 AM »

Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.
 
Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.
 
Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.
 
Any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake(atleast in part). A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.

Another point, look at the time stamp of the video. Notice Nick's head has been cut off at 13:47:49 (1:47) ­Yet at 2:44 nearly an hour later ­ he is sitting with his head intact!

In the video, the man in the middle (wearing all black) is the one who beheads Nick, but immediately when the head is held up, suddenly it changes to the man in the white mask. Now come one people, just the last two points alone should make you think...

The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Nick would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Nick from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.
 
Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.
 
Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.
 
The lack of spurting blood suggests Nick was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Nick's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.
 
The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape. A high pitched scream from a guy isnt abnormal, but it seems odd to me, as it seems others as well.
 
The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick.
 
Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?
 
Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s. I happen to own two AK-47s, and members here at X-S can back me up on that. Ya, the video was not all that good, but the rifles those guys were holding were no AKs.
 
The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.
 
The US military has stated that Nick was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nic. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.
 
The chair that Nick was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.
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melon

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2004, 03:42:00 AM »

I havnt had a chance to confirm your facts but your argument is very interesting.
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BloodyMary

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2004, 04:18:00 AM »

rms2001,

Reexamining the video after reading through your statements brings a lot into question. It is rather odd that they continue changing between 24 and 12 hour time... especially when they do it right during the beheading... maybe you're right and the whole thing was staged by the US military... or perhaps they murder's wanted us to believe that it was staged... the video was obviously edited here and there... (who knows why)... if it's real (which I still tend to believe) it make me totally sick to my stomach.. if it's staged by the US military it makes me totally sick to my stomach...
Either way, it's a completely horendous act of man kind...

Something I noticed while rewatching it and rewatching it...
as far as your arguement about the pasty white hands... it's not fully true.. at least one of the men has dark skinned hands.. and it look like the guy doing the beheading and at least one of the other guys is wearing what looks like medical gloves or some kind of gloves... which would make total since when cutting through meat and bone...

EDIT: oh as far as the time discrepincy goes... look at it again... it looks like 2 seperate cameras are filming the beheading... and one of them is set to 24 hour time and the other is set to 12 hour time.. that would explain the time discrepincy as well... Remember these are ruthless terrorist that we are dealing with.. they want you to believe that the US government is trying to deceive you...
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falser

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2004, 04:39:00 AM »

They did find his body a few days later - beheaded.  I don't know of any report saying that he was definitely killed by beheading.  He could have been killed any number of other ways, and then had his head severed later.  But I would have a real hard time believing the military could do anything that horrendous to an American.  That would have ramifications that I couldn't begin to think about.  So I'll have to give the US military the benefit of doubt until any further information comes to light - speculation doesn't help a situation like this.
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Ween311

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2004, 07:07:00 AM »

Next thing you know, they'll be saying the moon landing was faked..... wink.gif
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melon

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2004, 08:14:00 AM »

or JFK wasnt killed by lee harvey oswald (so obvious aliens done it)


edit: just thought of something. The US has the patriot act and there is a patriot act 2 soon to be introduced. It just sounds like it could be a mel gibson sequel.
The Patriot Act 2 - The (British) Empire Strikes Back.

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iwinulose

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2004, 08:19:00 AM »

do u retards really think the us gov't could really do this to a us citizen (even if he was in a bit of trouble)
if u do ur just a tree hugging hippy crap (i got that from cartman on south park)
and yes there are 2 video cams if u look when the one wit 24 hour clock is on it looks slightly different then when the 12 hour one is on
as far as the scream goes, its not a fucking girl screaming r u f-ing retarded
and about him not moving much he may have been drugged and if he wasnt he knew he wasnt going to get out of there alive
it just sick what they did to him
i heard the audio tape a few days ago in the car coming home and it was so horrible that i couldnt do my homework for half an hour
so for all of u tree hugging hippy craps out there
SHUT THE FUCK UP
(how would u like it if it was ur kid or dad that was killed)
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gronne

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2004, 08:35:00 AM »

You couldn't do your homework for half an hour.. wow, man, wow. It must've grabbed you a lot!!?!!
Not even I believe USA staged it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The Iraqies are not stupid and know these things will only piss off the americans even more. I still don't think americans did it though, I mean stage somebody who is already dead, but it removed focus a bit from US treatment of prisoners.
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Arvarden

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2004, 09:44:00 AM »

Rms you've made alot of interesting points and I was surprised by the lack of blood, the ease of decapitation and I couldn't see any sign of a struggle.  Even if you were bound by the legs and hands you could still make it hard for 3 even 4 people to hold you down unless you were drugged up to the eyeballs.

Also it's interesting that this happens just after the humiliating torture photos but saying that, we hit them, they hit us back twice as hard?
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iwinulose

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2004, 10:12:00 AM »

i still cant believe that u ppl think that the us gov't had ne thing to do wit this
y i gods name (im not religious at all, just so u get the idea) would the us torture and behead a citizen that was working hard over there in iraq
i think u ppl need to get ur heads out of ur asses and shut up
hay boris have u even seen the 6 1/2 min video?
it was a hell of a lot bloodier than the 60 sec preveiw!
this topic should be trashed cause it freaking retarded
THE US GOVERNMENT DID NOT HAVE ANY THING TO DO WITH THE BEHEADING!!!
end of story
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BloodyMary

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2004, 10:15:00 AM »

You guys all rewatch and rewatch that video and watch the time...

as far as the arguement about getting the head to come off so easily...
it obviously wasn't easy.. there is a skip right at 13:46:33 and it jumps right to 13:47:46, the guy with the knife was obviously having trouble cutting through the spinal cord... and who knows what they used in that more then one minute span to sever the spinal cord...  This is real guys... wake up... these terrorist hate America and all Americans and will do anything within their power to convince America to leave them alone... There's no lack of blood and it wouldn't be squiting out anyway.. anyone who's ever slaughtered pigs for a living (yes I worked in a pig slaughterhouse for over 3 months and spent plenty of time on the kill floor) knows that blood doesn't just come splashing out all over...
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MeNaCe911

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Was Nick Berg's Excecution Staged?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2004, 10:38:00 AM »

blood still spills...not enough blood came 4rm that body to show it was real...i dont think the us goverment did it but i do know its fake...too many points...
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