Topic: The Topic... (religion) (Read 1367 times)

socrates · « **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:10:00 PM »

*socrates chases after kazubuyagogogirl with a giant box of cookies taunting poor kazyu* come back.....come back!!! i have milk!!!!

socrates · « **Reply #33 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:15:00 PM »

those things are the best....but those little fucking girl guide bitches run out of them every fucking year before they get to my house so this year im gunna pretend i moved down the street and cut them off....fuck the niebours

Hammy · « **Reply #34 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:19:00 PM »

Infraded · « **Reply #35 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:23:00 PM »

go socrates....get the cookies!!!
*moves one house before him to buy them all first*

Infraded · « **Reply #36 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:27:00 PM »

seriosly..i think religion is just a scapegoat...something to blaim or use for something some dictator wanted

thats why it was created...i don't see why it still exists. Most likely as something weak people use to make their life seem to have a reason and/or purpose

Lizard_King · « **Reply #37 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:33:00 PM »

QUOTE

Also, sorry if the virus analogy offended you, I actually thought it fits nicely if you look up the definition and life of how a virus lives, and see the path that mankind is on, to me it seems similar.. that's not to say that it can't change, but serious social changes will have to be made. We are using up natural resourses so much faster than can be replaced, and are reproducing at an amazing rate. Procreation is another topic that is a good one for debate.. I really dislike the view of procreation to carry on the family line. So many have children with that as a concern in mind. Religion has also added to that, ie, Mormons.. my company is run by mormans and all the top brass (10 of them) have no less than 10 children each... I dont understand....

First off, since your statement was in no way a personal attack on me, why would I be offended by the honest expression of your point of view? The aspect of "man as virus" that I find sad and incorrect is not the behavioural parallels that can be drawn as you have, but rather the trivilization of human life that would accompany such a viewpoint.

As to the rest of this quote, I think we are moving far more into the domain of economics than of religion. Your point of view about humanity outstripping nature, while certainly a popular one, is by no means an open and closed case. Such population explosion mentality has been present in nearly every generation of thinkers going back to the enlightenment; the difference is that now we have the scientific data to discuss such questions in a more objective manner. The fact is that in terms of food technological advances in agriculture and bioengineering have more than provided for us in the past, leaving us with considerable surpluses in the present (famine as a modern occurrence is the product of flawed politics rather than an actual absence of food). As to mineral resources, humans have proved nothing if not adaptable, finding substitutes and changes in lifestyle to accomodate nearly all changes in supply.

To quote libertarian Timothy Roloff : "The economist Julian Simon pointed out time and time again how the doomsayers manipulate and exaggerate environmental hazards to further their personal agendas, rather than for the environment's sake. Julian Simon won his title as the world's foremost "doomslayer" by winning a bet against acclaimed chicken little, Paul Ehrlich. Ehrlich authored a book called "Population Bomb", and has been a big voice in the "the sky is falling" crowd. Simon bet him that anyone could pick five natural resources, and over a period of ten years, the average combined price for those resources would decline. If we're really raping the Earth, and running out of natural resources, this should have been an easy bet for a doomsayer to win. Ehrlich took Simon up on the bet, and it made the front page of the papers. But when Ehrlich lost and mailed off his check ten years later, it made the back page."

There is no reason to be any less skeptical of those who preach messianism (ie socialism, radical environmentalism, as utopian solutions for mankinds problems) on pseudo-scientific grounds than you would be of someone making the same claims on purely religious grounds...The man yelling that the end of the world is coming is probably the same guy trying to sell you the only way to prevent it.

vincent_y79 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:33:00 PM »

QUOTE (KazuyaWaruasobi @ Feb 7 2003, 10:03 PM)

QUOTE

Religion is a cohesive force that have held many lives together through traumatic events which would have otherwise been torn apart without it. Families that have lost love ones console themselves that their beloved have gone to a better place. Individuals that have nothing else to look forward to in the future and is on the verge of suicide can comfort themselves that God is still out there and loves him. These individuals chance to even continue with their future was given to them by their faith.

These people are weak and need to be lied to. As I said before: many people can't handle reality. It disgusts me.

QUOTE

Its almost undeniable that a strong goverment is essential for a stable future. It sets a structure to how business can be conducted, punishment be served and down to something as mundane as when you can hunt. Religion is also such that it can set rules to how we treat each other. Teaching good morale isn't enough, those morales have to be universal and structured and everyone agree so life can be harmonious. Let goverment govern the body and religion the spirit. Both are essential for the future.

Funny. You seem to be ingnoring the true nature of goverments and religion. Goverments and religions control and manipulate for their own purposes. They use the population that sustains them as a puppet, and whenever there is an opprtunity for that government or religion to gain power or vanquish an enemy, the population will be sent to war. Government and religion will do anything to save itself, but they always forget that without a population, there can be no government. They always send off their population to die, not realising that protecting the population is the best way to protect the government or religion. Government and religion will always be corrupt, and will always be destructive.

I was responding to the original post about whether religion is needed for the future. My point with the family was that they used their belief to move on and reconcile themselves. I don't believe that the true nature of Government and religion is manipulation although its a very easy platform for corrupt individuals to gain massive power.

QUOTE

But religion drove their civilization forward through conquest of land and people.

For it's own goals, and they were used by that religion. Do you see that as a good thing> If so than I truly pity you. . .think about it more. . .

n00bvin argued that If we wish to have a chance in our future, we must get rid of it. With this, I didn't really care if it was a good thing or not but to show that it pressed their civilization forward. And its not like the religion told them to conquer land but its the people themselves that did it and used their faith as a backbone. If for some unlikely chance that we find some alien community out there and we want their planet, we can say its Manifest Destiny. God wanted us to take that land. You better bet that we'll fight a whole lot harder believing that those planets are owed and believing some all encompassing power is on our side more than just wanting them.

Lizard_King · « **Reply #39 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:51:00 PM »

QUOTE

There can't be a right or wrong answer to what someone believes.

It depends on whether you are embracing moral relativism on a philosophical level (ie as a means of understanding different systems of belief) or on a practical level. The former means, for example, trying to get inside the head of a fanatical islamist to understand what makes him tick. The latter means accepting obviously immoral acts simply because they come from the aforementioned islamist's system of beliefs, and are for that reason alone valid.

Morality is not something determined by a democracy; if you live in a village of 100 people, and 99 of them vote that it is ok for them to kill you and take your property, that does not make their act any less immoral.

While it is something that can be affected to some degree by upbringing, an understanding of morality exists in all but the insane, as it is predicated both on biological instinct and on the means of peaceful coexistence. The refusal to condemn people for their wrong acts is a far worse brand of weakness than the much reviled proclivity to religion.

Hammy · « **Reply #40 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:56:00 PM »

socrates · « **Reply #41 on:** February 07, 2003, 08:58:00 PM »

vincent_y79 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:00:00 PM »

I just want to agree with Ace25 with his thoughts on Lizard_King's post. One of the best I've read in this thread so far.

socrates · « **Reply #43 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:05:00 PM »

we come from a planet called planet GuNnAgEtSoMe, where we beliv in life before death.........

dkoikadabra · « **Reply #44 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:11:00 PM »

You're thinking of the Westerner's notion of 'religion', which most of said groups are nothing but based off of a forbidden sub-sect of the Hebrews. If you look at Eastern thought, it actually makes sense in a few ways. For instance, check out an Animist's thought on how things work: everything, from the rocks and trees to the concrete and buildings, has a spirit that controls that said element, and are integral to keeping things in balance. Westerners (and the Near Eastern) think of only peace, which is largely unattainable. The Far Easterners think of balance and harmony, which isn't necessarily peaceful or nice.
N00bvin, did you have a bad experience with religion and 'superstitious mumbo-jumbo' when you were a kid? You seem to cling to science overly, and it's never a good thing to desperatly cletch a belief that constantly proves itself wrong.
I'm not trying to insult you, just ease up on the 'science is everything' bit. There IS other things in the world that science has no idea of, you know.

Author Topic: The Topic... (religion) (Read 1367 times)