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[rooter75]

QUOTE(skarekr0 @ Aug 13 2006, 11:34 PM)

I have to say this because as I sit on both sides of the fence (Sony and MS), I get to witness flaming, ignorance and blindness from both sides. Honestly, I expected this to come after the announcement that ps3 was going to offer homebrewing capabilities and its good to see MS stepping up their game and not being so "bull headed" about the whole ordeal, even if it does come at a price. But honestly, to all of you "fan boys" out there bashing the other systems (360 included), think about this. This is due to the release of information regarding the console you love to hate, so even if you are not planning on buying one, even if you dont like the company or whatever reasoning you have to hate.. if it werent for them, you wouldnt be receiving this "feature".
And the same goes for any other console, we advance through learning through other's mistakes... the things that we all want should be included in all of the systems, the things that fail should be removed, the things that we keep should improve. This is the way that advancement should be. Not one or the other.. if we are spending our hard earned dollars on something, it should be made by us and not some greedy fuck sitting behing a desk beging for our money, and it should be well worth the money that we work hard for. Its good to see that Ms is going to go through with this because this is exactly what they need, but to all of you "fan boys" out there, where is your "theyre copying!!!" statement now?

Since when are you a "fence sitter"? Your post are so full of PS2/3  love it makes me heave
I think most people around the scene knew that MS was looking into opening up homebrew on the 360 long before your beloved PS3 hinted at some type of hombrew functionality. I mean really do you think they are copying the PS3 that isn't even out yet and not going off of the killer hombrew scene that they watched develop with the xbox 1!?  So it is not a question of who is copying but who can implement it first.  It is hard to copy an idea that took true form on their own original machine.

I give a thumbs up to MS for this. Sure they want money out of it, but never before have we seen anything like this coming from the big 3 in gaming consoles.  They are giving us a little of what we have been asking for.

[0794]

QUOTE(skarekr0 @ Aug 14 2006, 12:34 AM)

I have to say this because as I sit on both sides of the fence (Sony and MS), I get to witness flaming, ignorance and blindness from both sides. Honestly, I expected this to come after the announcement that ps3 was going to offer homebrewing capabilities and its good to see MS stepping up their game and not being so "bull headed" about the whole ordeal, even if it does come at a price. But honestly, to all of you "fan boys" out there bashing the other systems (360 included), think about this. This is due to the release of information regarding the console you love to hate, so even if you are not planning on buying one, even if you dont like the company or whatever reasoning you have to hate.. if it werent for them, you wouldnt be receiving this "feature".
And the same goes for any other console, we advance through learning through other's mistakes... the things that we all want should be included in all of the systems, the things that fail should be removed, the things that we keep should improve. This is the way that advancement should be. Not one or the other.. if we are spending our hard earned dollars on something, it should be made by us and not some greedy fuck sitting behing a desk beging for our money, and it should be well worth the money that we work hard for. Its good to see that Ms is going to go through with this because this is exactly what they need, but to all of you "fan boys" out there, where is your "theyre copying!!!" statement now?

Both sides of the fence?  Ha, quite obvious you are sleeping with Sony.  I don't care though - not a fan boy for either.  Anyways, your last statement is humorous - how can you allude to "copying" when MS has released way more info and details about their plans for homebrew development than Sony?  Explain to me what you know about the Sony homebrew development model besides just "it is planned for the PS3"......

[bonevichio]

QUOTE(WildMonkeys @ Aug 14 2006, 04:22 PM)

XNA Blog:

"Running unsigned code on your Xbox 360 will require a yearly subscription of $99.00"

cheap price to pay.

[J0RD4N 007]

think about this...the average buyer only buys like 1 to 3 games for a console ever! thats 180 bucks, a modder does what he wants through a chip and pays MS 0 bucks, MS lets the modder do whatever he wants and charges 100 bucks a year and in 2 years MS makes more than they make off of the average buyer, so maybe the limitations wont be that bad as the subscription covers alot of possibe losses

[Hopeful]

I don't know how everyone else thinks of it
But I was excited at first about this news
And then lost all interest as it came to seem it would only lead to homebrew GAMES
And not XBMC or more importantly Emulators
This is just my opinion but I believe it makes sense.

From what I understand you have to be on live to run the homebrew code, and you have to send it in to MSN to sign it before it could possibly be put up for download. Translation: The way they have it set up they'd have to weed out anything like XBMC or Emulators for their own protection against liability, since they need to authorise/sign the content before it's even distributable, making themself a link in the legal chain and preventing the funnest benefits of homebrew.

Respect to those who've worked hard to make great homebrew games,
But no offense
But, the thing that homebrew GIVES most people is Emulators and Xbmc.
We already have games. Satisfying games created by giant professional teams.
Homebrew's basically sole benefit in my opinion is adding those two extremely exciting kinds of APP since we can already play games
To me if it's never going to lead to those two things, It's not really supporting homebrew or at least the very reason homebrew excites most people.
That may just be me, because those little live games never impressed me much either. Or did much but bore me with their repetetive simplicity.

This is not to say that there haven't been excellent homebrew games.
Or that nobody loves them, because there are some impressive homebrew games out there when you consider just one or a few poeple made them
But there's no reason to play them instead of much more grand scale retail games, IMO
(Unless you're a programmer appreciating the hard work of the creator, or a person who just loves to see what a single person or colledge class was able to accomplish. And come on, I'm just telling the truth.)
Not to mention I believe most people are right when they say this is more a scam to steal game ideas than a homebrew playing capability.

And come on you know the reason you want homebrew is to experience how powerfully and stable that the 360's monster hardware can emulate even the more demanding systems of the past. You want to see how many filters and hardware affects you can tweak a ps game with and still have it run at full speed. Whereas a PC will give you an imperfect frame rate no matter how powerful, you know the 360 runs one thing at a time with no unexpected resource usage and could keep a powerful emu unbelievably stable. You want to see Earthworm Jim 64 run at full speed with graphic tweaks so amazingly better than the original that they have your head spinning.

That's what you're dreaming of getting out of the word "homebrew" and ms knows this, even though they know they're going to weed out anything like this since it HAS to be signed/distributed by them with this system, yet they're exploiting the word 'homebrew' to give you hope of getting those things and make money. I do hope they prove me wrong by having some kind of loop that allows creation/distribution of these 2 things over the internet, but I somehow don't think that's going to happen.

I think it's great that MS is doing something new
But I don't think they can call it supporting homebrew until they've created something that allows:
programmers to create XBMC and Emulators for 360 at the programmer's own responsibility and distribution
I mean, I'm just telling the truth. Doesn't that make sense?

[openxdkman]

With this intelligent move from xbox 360 manufacturer it may be needed to list again who has interest in breaking console security system :

1) people who want to create backups and eventually share them (piracy)
2) people who have money and want to create/play homebrews for fun and don't need low level APIs
3) people who have no money and want to create/play homebrews for fun and don't need low level APIs
4) people who want to create/use any software (os, emulator, etc...) and need low level APIs

group 1) is very numerous but they have already won on xbox 360 because of flashable drives
They will become a threat again when no console with flashable drive can be found.
group 4) is very very strong and numerous (they finally owned xbox 1 security... brillantly)
group 2) 3) and 4) are still hungry... they are a great additional threat for xbox 360 console manufacturer right now!

The XNA idea will completely please group 2). But they aren't so many. So pressure of hackers against xbox 360 security will go down a bit but not so much. But it may compensate the money loss due to group 1).

In previous post I saw "99$ for executing unsigned code"...

You can see things another way :
Both creator and player of the "xna homebrews" will need to pay a lots and will need a good PC.
You can consider the "xna homebrews" to be mere software data, not code.
Even if their authors argue they can reach the speed of native code, it's interpreted code, thus data.

You download from internet (Live subscription + XNA subscription) the interpreter (xna framework and other stuff) which is the signed native code running on xbox 360.
Then you upload the data (xna homebrew) from your PC towards the console.

Another thing is it's highly probable the interpreter will only make busy one of the three CPUs.
So, somehow : (xbox 360 with only one cpu used) = (PC with best graphic card and 3Ghz CPU)
That would explain why the xna homebrew will work fine on PC side and why professional companies will still pay for the professional XDK.

Let's all thank the manufacturer to please so hard group 2)! Let's applause! Many thanks for group 2)!

Useless to say, I do not belong to group 2)... My dream is to obtain more than the best PC.
Otherwise what's the point of purchasing this console?

Then, let's keep on surveying group 3) and 4) because they will surely keep on their research and release wonderful stuff in future anyway! (Note that if there is the slightest little security hole in the interpreter, they will take advantage of it, and the interpreter may turn into a deluxe troyes horse... but the signed xbox 1 emulators that are to allow xbox 1 games to run on xbox 360 seem to be an easier target for them though...
multiple targets I can even add...)

Conclusion : VERY intelligent move to please a very specific part of people (reducing hacking pressure, a bit) and to earn mountains of dollars (highly needed in case things turn the way things turned for xbox 1... that is console price set too low at beginning to make the whole thing profitable).

[b00bie]

Ive been a reader here for quite a while and tend not to post as i think most of what i have to add has already been said but i feel i must add something to this topic.

It seems to me that most of the people posting in this topic are what i call 'end users' they download the homebrew install it, and are happy with the new functionality be it game, app or emu. What you have to remember is that this is not for you, this is for the developers to try there ideas and share it with other developers to see if it is a worthwhile idea or not.

There's people that think that MS will steal peoples code...........how? you write the code try it on your 360, it stays with you unless you wish to share it. You may make a game and if you think it will be popular you can use the code to pitch it to a full licenced developer.

This is what it is, a way for people to develop games using a rapid development system and nothing more, if you want xbmc then use it on your Xbox, but for now this is for game dev only. They ask for feedback reguarding what kind of things you would like to make so something like that may be possible in the future but as a starting point im thinking there on track, what with it been a games console.

I myself am a Windows Developer and find this exciting, that a console developer is giving us none licenced developers an SDK for making games and testing our ideas for the small fee they are.


b00bie