Print

[xnoelahg]

QUOTE(Maverick0984 @ May 20 2007, 07:37 AM)

You do realize the person that posted this article is one of those that "runs" this board.  Perhaps your initial statement shouldn't be directed at those that run the board, but rather, those that frequent the board.

 I don't think he was directly attacking the moderators of this forum, but rather replying to the commonts of "how is this xbox related?".

 Microsoft and the Linux community have butted heads many times, largly due to all the monopolies that MS (previously) held, and other business tactics that eliminate competition almost as quickly as it can be started. It's not so much as PC vs Mac as people think, but rather "why should MS be allowed to be the only ones to have a significant presense on 'IBM' compatible systems?" debate.

 I understand that the bulk of this board will swear up and down by what MS does, and for the most part, they're just fans of what MS brings them, but some of us don't want everything shoved down our throat and told it's our only optoin. Bringing OS's that allow the user to maintain full control over their entire setup to devices such as the 360 help with not only exposing people to the potential found within Linux, but also reminding the user that when you own a piece of hardware, why not take full control of it if there's any sort of benefit to the primary (or secondary) user(s)? This is NOW more than EVER something that should be exploited as MS is (now) profiting off each and every console sold (so they're not losing), and the 360 has the specs of a VERY nice PC. Imagine everything we've achieved on the XBOX, and now think how much further we can go on the 360.

 Furthermore, MS even states that they want users to have a 360 as part of their media setup for regular use; implying that even if you're not a gamer, the 360 can serve plenty purpose. Why should we be limited to what THEIR OS provieds if we want to do more than gaming and LIVE with it? Considering the specs, you'd be shallow to want to keep it as 'just a gaming console', unless of course you've already got tons of computer componets at your disposal (and even then, it's still appealing for accomplishment purposes).

QUOTE(ConteZero76 @ May 20 2007, 08:49 AM)

Microsoft "communist" is something laughable at best...
They are the most lawyer drived, corporate oriented, aimed to profit company in the US.
Communism is long dead (and "original" communism, as in Marx, was a completely different thing from Cuba/URSS/China incarnations).

 Shaddyup, ya commie bastad! j/k
Really, though, all those 'incarnations' you speak of were based off of Marxism; they simply changed a few things as they had an entire republic which would be affected by them. Of course, being money hungry and monopolistic in the sense that anything seen as a competitive threat is either bought or dragged through expensive litigation could easily be mistaken for a 'communist' act, as communism is all about monopolies.

[LightningStruckMyXbox]

It's all FUD. Microsoft's specialty. They are trying to put pressure on the big corporations who use Linux, they want them to worry that they could be audited or accused of patent infringing. Because Linux is open-source, there's no real company to go after. And if they were to ever sue someone over patent infringement, there would certainly be valid counter-claims that could expose secret Microsoft code. It's just too big a risk for Microsoft to take. It would probably be thrown out the window in the first place, and in addition to being a futile attempt to dissolve millions of devoted community members (1 | 2), it also brings Linux further into public view. How does this sound, "Microsoft looses an intellectual property dispute against the Linux community and, in addition, has their own code challenged." Not exactly good publicity for Microsoft. They are starting to feel the heat indeed.

[sinister slipknot]

QUOTE(bigtrouble777 @ May 20 2007, 05:54 AM)

I didn't realize this board was run by 8 years old... haven't been around in a while.  Read carefully and you guys might learn something...

This is significant because MS is trying to eliminate competition through FUD.  Tolvalds' response was very restrained, imo.  One thing you guys have to realize is that much of the tools developed for hacking the xbox/xbox360 are linux based.  In fact, I think most of the firmwares are linux based.  Just because you run a phatt souped up windows desktop and play an elite modded xbox 360 doesn't mean you don't use linux every day.  Most routers, web servers and tons of embeded devices run linux, etc.  This affects you much more than getting Ubuntu to boot on the 360 (which would be nice).

I personally like the 360, but MS as a company is a POS.  They have to be kept in check or you'll be forced to buy a 360 if you want to play games.

Whilst i agree that Linux is good, and very widespread (offering reliable web servers that im sure most sites use) This site isn't run by 8 year olds, this site is run really well by the respectable mods. Some members' opinions definently don't represent other members, or mods/admins opinions.

[LightningStruckMyXbox]

QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ May 20 2007, 06:38 AM)

I don't like being refered to as the "little guy" in linux articles. Get a better tag to draw support from. The little guy are the consumers who care less about linux then anyone else.

Lets call a turd a turd. Linux is for hard core geeks that take os systems way too personal.

The "little guy" can go buy an acer laptop for $499 at a store with windows included. Don't think the "little guy" is getting all that screwed by MS.

You are very narrow minded if you seriously think Linux is for "Hard Core geeks". My mom uses it every day to surf the net, read her mail, and write stuff for her teaching job. Basic thing, all easily done without any of this mysterious "geek" stuff. I bet you haven't even tried a modern distro, have you? Stuff install just like it does in windows, point and click. And the fact that we never have to worry about viruses and spyware is even better. Less money to spend on virus protection that doesn't even work! Seriously, partition your drive and install a distro. Actually, you don't even have to. They have Linux on CD's and DVD's that can run without installing anything. LiveCD's. It's a risk free way to try something that it seems you are so already akin to.

[bigtrouble777]

QUOTE(xnoelahg @ May 20 2007, 09:29 AM)

I don't think he was directly attacking the moderators of this forum, but rather replying to the commonts of "how is this xbox related?".

xnoelahg is correct.  I was not attacking the admins.

QUOTE(phatNickels @ May 20 2007, 03:03 PM)

i have to be the ignorant prick here and say, are you serious?

Firmware has nothing to do with Linux... Firmware is written in assembly...

http://en.wikipedia....ell_(computing)

I use the Xenium chip which has a built in OS that uses many FOSS technologies, like samba for instance.

QUOTE(sinister slipknot @ May 20 2007, 12:56 PM)

Whilst i agree that Linux is good, and very widespread (offering reliable web servers that im sure most sites use) This site isn't run by 8 year olds, this site is run really well by the respectable mods. Some members' opinions definently don't represent other members, or mods/admins opinions.

You missed my point entirely.  I have nothing against the mods.  I was responding to the silly comments.

[D3solator]

I have tried the latest distro of Ubuntu and it's pure garbage. Just to install the drivers you DONT point and click. One example would be Nvidia drivers for my graphics card. I downloaded the latest drivers for my card, and hmm look at the instructions:

Type "sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9755-pkg1.run" to install the driver. NVIDIA now provides a utility to assist you with configuration of your X config file. Please see Chapter 3 of the README or run 'man nvidia-xconfig' for details on usage. Instructions for those wishing to edit their X config file by hand can also be found in the README.

Wtf is a X config file, hmm SOUNDS like hard core geek stuff to me. To this day i still run linux in a crappy res because its too complicated to install the drivers.

Now lets compare this to windows installation instructions:
Oh wait there is none because all you have to do is double click
on the icon, JUST like with any other driver for windows. There is no point in getting linux
because it is not user friendly, and everything it can do, windows can already do better. Yes i agree its good for servers but thats about it, for the average person it is complete garbage.

[cory1492]

D3solator:
Add/Remove programs + driver manager equivalent.. all graphical, point and click, all without having to track down the manufacturers for driver builds that will work with your installation/hardware (chances are, the .run you have is not directly tested with your specific OS anyway, but is just the manufacturer's way of sharing the information so OS programmers can use it to make proper packages).
http://monkeyblog.or...ntu/installing/
this one even specifically says to NOT use CLI to install NVidia drivers for the GUI... because it does everything automagically from synaptic.
http://www.pclinuxon...iki/SetupNVidia
If a person never used windoze before, would they know what "add/remove programs" is, or where to find it? Would they spend 30sec on google to figure it out like I just did? Or would they look for a "geek" to do it for them?
 

[bigtrouble777]

QUOTE(D3solator @ May 20 2007, 04:32 PM)

I have tried the latest distro of Ubuntu and it's pure garbage. Just to install the drivers you DONT point and click. One example would be Nvidia drivers for my graphics card. I downloaded the latest drivers for my card, and hmm look at the instructions:

If you took a few seconds to check out UbuntuGuide you'd see that all you need to do is type "sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx" in the command line or simply find nvidia-glx in Synaptic if you prefer a gui.

When you install the drivers through the repos you will periodically get driver updates pushed to you.  In fact, Ubuntu will push updates of every application installed from the repos (which should be about 99% of your apps).  I forget, does windows automatically supply security updates for every single app on the system?

I forgot, Ubuntu Feisty has the restricted driver app so you can get the 3d accellerated drivers installed in one click, without a reboot.  And then you can enable 3d desktop effects with another click.  How is that harder than having to navigate Nvidia's website and search for the proper drivers?

[Millenia1x]

im 100 percent sure that there are linux components in windows

this is a losing battle for ms\

i bet ms is pissed because linux is starting to outclass windows with linux mce and whatnot

[yaazz]

@D3solator:  
Linux really isnt as scary as it looks, its just different. Allow me to explan your problems..
sh means to run a script.
"sh SCRIPT.run" means run the script called SCRIPT.run
sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9755-pkg1.run simply means run the install script for Nvidia drivers(although I agree, that is a  *terrible*  filename)
The closest windows equivalent is a bat file.

'man' is short for manual
so "man nvidia-xconfig" opens the manual for the program nvidia-xconfig

An X server is another way to say the Linux GUI window system. A windows example is you could call the window system for Vista, Areo.

as I said, Linux isnt overly complicated, its just different.



Also: As someone mentioned earlier, soon it wont matter how many patents MS says OSS infringes on. Because of various alledged patent infringments on both sides of the deal, two software giants, MS and Novell, recently signed a deal, similar to a truce, stating that each party was free to use the others patents they alledgedly infringed on. A lot of money was exchanged in the deal, with Novell obviously getting the better end of the stick because of the much larger Windows userbase.
This deal was effectively a loophole around the current GPL system, and the Linux community was pissed to say the least. A complete rewrite was in order for the GPL liscensing system to avoid this from happening again. In the new GPLv3, patent sharing is no longer implied. Instead, it was explicitly written out that any distributer of OSS must share his patents through a sort of "Liberty or Death" clause (i.e everyone gets to use the patent or nobody does.), effectively avoiding any future loopholes.

This isnt the most interesting part of the rewrite.
Part of the deal Microsoft made with Novell included vouchers that could be turned in for SUSE linux that were to be distributed by MS. This effectively makes MS a **distributer of Linux**! If any one of these vouchers are redeemed after GPLv3 comes into effect, MS instantly becomes bound to the terms of it, and All patents that Linux alledgedly infringes on must now be shared with everyone so it doesn't matter anymore.
.
In otherwords, the GPL group found a loophole around the original loophole that MS/Novell attempted to exploit!
Funny stuff.

[Mr Invader]

QUOTE(D3solator @ May 20 2007, 10:32 AM)

I have tried the latest distro of Ubuntu and it's pure garbage.

my friend has it on his laptop and has problems with it as well, he can't seem to find a driver for his wireless card, along with other issues

[D3solator]

I have googled it and there are different methods of doing it, I still stick to my point that it is not user friendly. You can't just point and click at the file, and it will install automatically. For internet browsing, word processing, I would definitely use Windows because you get what you pay for. Linux is not worth going through the trouble of setting everything up just so that you can have a free word processor or graphics editor, which are pretty lame at that.

[LightningStruckMyXbox]

I have to deal with people like that all day. I have come to the conclusion that they are just scared of change, to the point where they lash out at anyone who wants them to try something new. I know windows is not always point-and-click and that there are many instances of bend over backwards tactics and the weekly reformat. Linux is driven by the community. The community is it's backbone, it's support, it's everything. It's it's largest resource of information available. If you can't learn to use the Linux community, then you will be far behind once Linux takes over.  

[epsilon72]

QUOTE(D3solator @ May 20 2007, 08:32 AM)

I have tried the latest distro of Ubuntu and it's pure garbage. Just to install the drivers you DONT point and click. One example would be Nvidia drivers for my graphics card. I downloaded the latest drivers for my card, and hmm look at the instructions:

Type "sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-9755-pkg1.run" to install the driver. NVIDIA now provides a utility to assist you with configuration of your X config file. Please see Chapter 3 of the README or run 'man nvidia-xconfig' for details on usage. Instructions for those wishing to edit their X config file by hand can also be found in the README.

Wtf is a X config file, hmm SOUNDS like hard core geek stuff to me. To this day i still run linux in a crappy res because its too complicated to install the drivers.

Now lets compare this to windows installation instructions:
Oh wait there is none because all you have to do is double click
on the icon, JUST like with any other driver for windows. There is no point in getting linux
because it is not user friendly, and everything it can do, windows can already do better. Yes i agree its good for servers but thats about it, for the average person it is complete garbage.

Well, you can just keep on using windows for everything then.  Have fun.

[tomato72]

As to the discussion on windows driver installation versus linux driver installation.  From my experience it seems that there are hardware options out there which are not supported, or supported poorly on linux, some devices are hard to get working properly.  However, driver installation is no more difficult, in many cases it has been easier for me on my linux partition than windows.  For example, installing a linux driver, if its not point and click as you might prefer, it takes 2 minutes on a forum where someone explains how to do it, followed by a few seconds of following simple instructions, downgrading or changing drivers? same procedure.  Installing a windows driver, in some cases, point and click and done, in others, navigate a confusing company support page, download a driver, open up the windows installer, wait for it to search for a driver, when it can't find it, point it in the right direction... downgrading or changing a driver open up the installer, try to reinstall... can't do that we've already got a driver windows likes, try uninstalling the driver, restart, try installing the new driver, can't do that... windows prefers the old driver,  Find a system restore point before the first driver was installed, restart, wait for system restore, follow original process to install new driver.
Yes, I know my way around a windows box, I am not just an idiot who doesn't know how to install drivers
Yes, this actually happened, not an elaboration
Don't claim that windows drivers are easier to install in every cases, because in most cases, linux drivers are just as easy as windows, and for the cases you find that its tough on linux, I'll find a case where its tougher on windows