Print

[Deftech]

Carlo you may be younger than others, but youre one of the few around here that grasps video and sound, keep it up bro!

If you though the rear proj DLP set looked good, you should see it properly calibrated in a room thats dark. They are amazing.

If I ever get a rear projection set again, itll be DLP, although I should have kept my Pioneer CRT for another room, I miss her sometimes.

lifes too short for wanting so many damn toys!!

I dont even respond to the blatant uneducated comments anymore. I'll leave that to you and twisted, lol  

whats next? someone saying VHS is surperior to DVD?

 

[mrbelvedere]

I had a guy at work tell me that 8-Track is superior to the Cd in terms of audio qulaity, and I just laughed.  Some people

[Carlo210]

QUOTE(Deftech @ Jul 23 2005, 06:20 AM)

Carlo you may be younger than others, but youre one of the few around here that grasps video and sound, keep it up bro!

If you though the rear proj DLP set looked good, you should see it properly calibrated in a room thats dark. They are amazing.

If I ever get a rear projection set again, itll be DLP, although I should have kept my Pioneer CRT for another room, I miss her sometimes.

lifes too short for wanting so many damn toys!!

I dont even respond to the blatant uneducated comments anymore. I'll leave that to you and twisted, lol 

whats next? someone saying VHS is surperior to DVD?

 

Thanks man, I really appreciate it. For now I'm probably gonna pick up a cheap crt monitor so I can get my xbox360 set up in my room, then I'll start the saving up for a dlp.
I'm still not 100% on what I'm gonna end up with, but so far just getting amonitor seems like the best setup for my room. I mean, I got an empty desk with an amazingly comfortable leather desk chair with around 60 degree tilt. Before I pick up any kind of surround sound setup, my 80 watt jvc stereo should do me just fine with my xbox360 as aux.
I'm gonna go budget, basically, for a while. If I like my monitor setup, then  might keep it.
I must admit one thing, though. Having a projector project and image 6 feet infront of me in a small bedroom is pretty impractical. I might pick one up once I start college (university, to be exact) but everything is up in the air. So far, spending the nice 170$ on a Samsung 793mb 17" crt monitor seems like the right decision for me in these certain circumstances. As much as I'd like a projector 90" screen with an expensive surround sound setup, I have to be realistic in terms of how much csh I got and what other things I will need money for, such as school.
I'll pick up the most affordable surround sound setup (with digital outs, of course) that sounds good enough for my small bedroom. I mean, that's who they build the low end Htib systems for. I just gotta make sure I get a digital in.

As you can see, I ramble on about my thoughts to clear up things in my head, but at least this way there are some helpful people to respond as well.
 

[twistedsymphony]

it really depends on the quality level you're talking about...

On the lowest level you have analog through a set of stereo patch cables or worse... a 1/8" headphone jack.

A step up from that you have your "stereo encoded surround sound" like the pro-logics and DTS:Neo-6 etc. These are analog stereo signals that have been screwed with so that a proper decoder can break it apart. Dreamcast, the GC, etc. they all use Dolby Pro logic for surround sound. The problem here is that the further you futz with the signal to add in that encoding and still have it sound normal through a stereo only system you loose all sorts of quality. You're essentially trading quality for quantity (number of channels).

The next logical step is of course digital your Dolby Digital and DTSs... these are great because everything is encoded separately also because it's digital you don't loose any quality over the lines from player to decoder. There is a problem however... digital can never be as good as analog because the data always has to be broken up into a quantifiable bit rate. While analog is most often of lower quality, high quality analog is always superior to digital because it is always a constant stream, never limited by a bit rate.

The highest fidelity for the discerning audiophile will always be analog. Most high-end SACD players ONLY output separate channel analog... the reason is the bit rate that SACDs are encoded in is SO high that the standard S/PDIf (the digital signal used for optical or coaxial) is actually a substantial down grade in the signal's quality. This is also the reason many audiophiles will say that vinyl or reel-to-reel have superior audio quality to CDs or even SACDs.

Then again... if your audio system is being used for DVDs and Video games, most of the audio you're listening to was on a computer at one point, which means it was digital... which means as long as the digital bit-rate you're using is equal to or above that of the source material you're getting the best quality possible. In terms of music however, the source is almost always analog, which means no digital format will ever be capable of providing quality as good as the analog source.

Unfortunately I'm afraid the digital standards for audio we have today simply aren't good enough, they don't have the bandwidth to deliver an audio bit rate to keep up with the SACDs of today and the HD-DVDs and BRD movies of tomorrow... Keep your eyes peeled for another format war in terms of digital audio encoding  

[MrBones]

It's always great to see my two favorite subjects, video games and home theaters, in the same forum.

My plan for my theater, as it's in my bedroom, was to just wait until I knew I was getting a damn good deal.  I got a Panasonic SA-HE100 receiver for $100.  Five Panasonic bookshelf speakers for $50 (originally about $350, but the store was closing), and a free Kenwood speaker which is my Rear channel.

I haven't been disappointed with it yet.

[c00ly]

QUOTE(Carlo)

And Cooly, you coulnd't be more wrong. you CANNOT receive surround sound without digital because with analog, there is no decoding to each speaker. with analog, you just get the basic left, right, center basic stuff.

...no, what are you talking about, that was a question, so how can i be wrong? second, i have 7.1 analog speakers on my computer right now. each channel takes a different line (tri-line). this is what i was thinking about, if the audio could be decoded before exiting the machine, like an internal audigy 2 card.

[Carlo210]

If they are on your computer in 7.1, then you my friend are listening to Dolby Digital.  
If you are listening to them where the sound is simply seperated through all 7 speakers, which you are talking about, then yes, that is analog.
My point was that that sound setup isn't in fact surround sound.

[c00ly]

QUOTE

If they are on your computer in 7.1, then you my friend are listening to Dolby Digital.
If you are listening to them where the sound is simply seperated through all 7 speakers, which you are talking about, then yes, that is analog.
My point was that that sound setup isn't in fact surround sound.

Sorry to bring this back up but yes it is. The audigy 2 card produces an analog audio output. And that infact is surround sound when listening to a movie in PowerDVD.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Jul 29 2005, 11:51 PM)

If they are on your computer in 7.1, then you my friend are listening to Dolby Digital. 
If you are listening to them where the sound is simply separated through all 7 speakers, which you are talking about, then yes, that is analog.
My point was that that sound setup isn't in fact surround sound.

:rolleyes:
Surround Sound is defined as any 3D sound source... There are both digital and analog surround sound sources. Just because it's analog doesn't mean it's not surround sound.

Dolby Digital EX is a digital 7.1 surround sound encoding (provided through S/PDIf)
DTS:Neo6 is an analog 7.1 surround sound encoding (provided through Stereo RCA plugs)

Similarly DTS and Dolby Digital are both digital 5.1 encodings and
Dolby Pro-Logic II is an analog 5.1 encoding.

Aside from that even if he is outputting separate channels post decoding/pre amplification it's still surround sound.

For the best quality though you'd want to go with an optical digital output and ensure that the decoder is well grounded and a distance away from the PC. PCs are full of noise and analog outputs are subject to loads of interference because of it. Using digital cuts down on the noise significantly, using optical for your digital cuts out all line noise completely.

This post has been edited by twistedsymphony: Aug 17 2005, 01:52 PM

[Greyfoxwolf]

so... any of you got a cheap solution to hook the xbox360 to a (external)pc sound card??
cuz i would like to place the xbox360 in my pc room rather than my living room (cuz in the living room there is a crappy sony tv and in my pc room 5.1 surround)

[twistedsymphony]

the 360 only outputs in 2 types of connections

Stereo through a standard RCA connection
and
Dolby Digital through a Toslink connection

Some games will support other formats but ALL games will support both of the above formats.

IF you want surround sound your external sound card needs an optical input and the ability to decode Dolby Digital.

[scienide]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Jul 24 2005, 04:15 AM)

In terms of music however, the source is almost always analog, which means no digital format will ever be capable of providing quality as good as the analog source.

Music analog??

hmmm.... not my music...
maybe a lot of music.. but surely not the music i listen to ...

my music is all electronic based, and the house tunes that come out lately, all have digital source for sure ...

I must say, in the early days, the Roland 303 and 909 which where mainly used for making music was analog....
Too bad these devices have all been replaced by digital counter parts....

But i guess u mean with : music is analog, the music the majority of people listen too ...

Genre i like most is the classic gabber/hardcore/oldschool sound of 1989 - 1997

with kind regards
Marco

[twistedsymphony]

Basically when we talk Analog vs Digital we're referring to the they way the source device outputs it's data.... the pre-amplified signal entering your reciever...

most CD players MP3 players etc are all analog... If you're connecting to those things with a headphone jack or a pair of RCA patch cables... it's analog.

Unless you're connecting with an S/PDif based output such as toslink, coax, or hdmi your music is analog.

Your music might be stored in a digital format such as red-book or MP3 but in most cases it gets transfered immediately to an analog format.

[LowProfileWurm]

Ohhhh, one of my favorite topics after gaming... analog vs. digital audio.

My opinion: Analog is better.  Why?  Because of the nature of the source.  Physically, sound is a wave and therefore, all translations of that wave into the digital realm (encoding) and back into the analog realm (via speaker) cause degradation.  Digital audio will never be as good as analog simply based on Fourier transformations; however, human ears probably won't be able to tell the difference when technology finally catches up.  Digital is simply more convenient.  It's transmission is easier; it's connections for multi-channel are fewer; and the loss of quality is getting less and less; its amplification is easier.  But that does not mean it sounds better.  I hope someday an analog connection is found that will surpass all this digital stuff, but I just don't think that will happen.  Farewell LP, we will miss you.   :lol:

[twistedsymphony]

well you can kiss analog good by for good... the last company still manufacturing analog based media for recording studios filed for Bankruptcy last year... so unless you're attending a live show, it's digital from hear on out kiddies.  

Though digital does have the advantages of a lossless signal up to the point of decoding with relatively cheap equipment.