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[c00ly]

I really hope it has 7.1 audio as well as 5.1 but thats not really what my post is about, i was wondering if it was going to have the tri-line outputs (3 headphone jacks) because optical cables are damn expensive, and i wanted to use my creative 7.1 inspire system, or perhaps buy a second one since they are relatively cheap. $75 USD at newegg.com (i dont have that exact one). This optical wiring is a rip off, i can live with analog audio. Also is there such an adapter that converts an optical cable to a tri-line or is this not possible because there is no hardware DTS/DD decoder?

[twistedsymphony]

optical is a rip off?  HA!

I find it particularly funny that this thread was nestled right next to another thread about how much it sucks that MS isn't including digital video outs.

I HIGHLY doubt you'll see raw analog surround outputs on a console anytime soon.

You're correct in that you'd need a hardware decoder (last I check they were in the $100 range and at that price you might as well buy new PROPER speakers).

That's the reason why you never EVER EVER EVER EVER buy PC surround speakers and expect to use them in a home theater setting. PC surround speakers always cost less because they don't have a built in decoder (because it uses the PC's sound card to do the decoding).

In home theater it's expected that the receiver will do the decoding... in PC gaming it's expected that the PC will do the decoding...

Truth be told... PCs will typically output both analog AND digital, while home theater equipment will typically only output digital. So if you want to cover all your bases make sure your audio setup can handle digital.

My advice to you would be to buy a new set of speakers with a built in decoder... or a REAL surround setup  

[ZeroAxlX]

just get a Creative DDTS-100, I have one myself, will work fine with your 7.1 Audio system

This post has been edited by ZeroAxlX: Jul 20 2005, 08:28 PM

[Deftech]

I know Im reaching but it would be nice if MS offered us digital coax along with toslink. But the "average" person has no idea what that is so they must please the masses.

what would rock is if MS made a audio/videophile version of the 360.

DVI/HDMI outputs, coax dig for sound, etc. I'd pay more for that without hesitation.

And please heed Twisteds advice. get some real speakers, and then a cheap 5.1/7.1 receiver. A decent set of speakers will yield the biggest improvement. by decent i dont mean little shits either, unless you have a tiny room.

here you go again deftech, remember where you are, this isnt a home theatre forum  

exiting....

[incognegro]

twisted, you seem to know alot about this but i have a surround sound system (relatively cheap one) and i havent got my advance av pack yet but i was wondering if its like the pc ones you are talking about or does it decode it itself? you see it can work with my pc, dvd player, computer and game systems but it only seems to pick up dolby 5.1 with the dvd player so far. But im trying to get it to work with my xbox and im not really good at that sort of thing.

[yerac]

A good surround system to go with is the logitech z-5500 or z-680. they both have digital decoders built althouhgt the are computer speakers. the z-680 shoud be cheaper now that it is two years old but it i still a great system. i have the z-5500 and its got a boom'en 10" woofer and 5.1 speakers. its a very good bang 4 ur buvk and supports all of the audio feeds; optical coaxial analog and the headphone kind.

[twistedsymphony]

I should clarify that while most if not all non-PC surround systems have built in decoders, only SOME PC surround system do.

Chances are if you picked up a PC surround system over a non-PC system because it was cheaper, it was only cheaper because it was missing the decoder  

That's why I typically recommend people just stay away from the PC based systems if they don't know what they're doing. If they do know what they're doing, well then they don't need to listen to me anyway  

Basically all speakers are analog. When you have an raw analog stereo out, it has two cables, one for each speaker, when you have raw analog surround sound out, likewise it will have a single cable for each speaker. Digital uses a single cable to transmit all of the audio. A decoder takes this single digital output and breaks it down into the individual channels to send to the individual speakers.

incognegro, if it gets DD5.1 out of your DVD player then you should be good to go for the Xbox once you pickup that A/V pack  

Digital audio is sent through 1 of 3 possible cables: optical Toslink, digital coaxial, or HDMI. Xbox outputs it's digital audio with an optical Toslink, if needed a digital coaxial output can also be installed VERY easily.  

[Carlo210]

There are MANY MANY low priced (cheap, if I must say) home theatre systems in-a-box at bestbuy etc. All you gotta do is find the reciever with the most decoders (or the one you plan to use the most) and pick it up with the included speakers.
Then go out and shop for speakers if you aren't happy with the ones in the box. You still got an inexpensive reciever with the bare bones of what you will be using it for.

If I were to get a home theatre system, I'd go for a Home theatre in-a-box, but I'd look extremely carefully at the specs of each speaker and the reciever. Philips has incredibly inexpensive systems with 3 way speakers (beautiful looking ones too) with nice ranges and woofer sizes.

Just be a smart shopper.

[twistedsymphony]

I've spent way more on my audio setup than on my video setup....

Good audio is essential to the experience. I know in terms of gaming you can't play if you can't see... but audio is what makes the experience REAL and pulls you into it.

When I got to college I didn't even own a DVD player... I had a few friends with home theater in a box setups and they always sounded like crap to me... So when I started getting into home theater stuff I decided that rather than buy a new mediocre system every few years, that I would save a bit and build a high-end system piece by piece.

I lived with a couple of Stereo PC speakers for about a year while I saved for the start of my GOOD audio system... when I had enough money I bought a Receiver and two really solid Loudspeakers. Later I added two more speakers for the rear, then a center channel, then a sub woofer (I should note that the loudspeaker produced enough bass that by most's standards it's not needed).

My Audio Setup is as follows:
A Marantz "SR5200" Surround Receiver
A Pair of Cambridge Soundworks "Tower" Loudspeakers (not to be confused with Tower II or Tower IIIs)
A Cambridge Soundworks "Centerstage" Center Channel
A pair of Cambridge Soundworks "The Surround 5.1" for Surround
and a Cabridge Soundworks "Basscube 15" Subwoofer

I started with just the receiver and the loudspeakers (2 channel about $1200)... I later picked up a pair of surrounds (4 channel another $200), then the center (5 channel another $150), then the sub (5.1 channel another $250), and the next step is a 2nd match set of surrounds (7.1 channel another $150)

I see my system lasting me a VERY long time, my speakers alone came with a 10 year warranty and the receiver with a 5 year waranty.... that alone speaks to the life span of the product... If you figure an xbox comes with a 90day and it's expected to last for 5 years... how long should something with a 10 year warranty last?

One thing is for sure, It puts a smile on my face from ear to ear whenever I listen to it.  

[Carlo210]

Well I was appealing to the lower budget consumer, so I totally agree that if you eally want a good sound experience (other than a louder sound on 5 corners of the room which you get from ht in a box) then you gotta put alot more cash into it.

If I as to get a home theatre setup, it'd be a boxed setup just because:
1. It's for a bedroom (quite small) and I never intend on pumping it up.
2. I'd just like the fidelity of hearing bullets behind me and woosh across the room etc, even if the audio quality is the same as my tv speakers.

When I get to University (but since college means university and college itself,  when I get to "college") I'll pick up a better system with seperate speakers etc. you gotta go shopping carefully though, your rear speakers cant, for example, have superior sound than the main front speakers. Rear speakers are usually the smallest ones.

[MetalZoic]

QUOTE(Carlo210 @ Jul 21 2005, 04:13 PM)

If I were to get a home theatre system, I'd go for a Home theatre in-a-box, but I'd look extremely carefully at the specs of each speaker and the reciever. Philips has incredibly inexpensive systems with 3 way speakers (beautiful looking ones too) with nice ranges and woofer sizes.

Just a bit of advice if you decide to go this route...
Twisted is right when he says there are only 3 ways to send a true surround signal
and buying a system/receiver without enough of these digital inputs is one of the
most common mistakes people make.

In fact many home-theatre-in-a-box systems will only pull surround-sound from the
built in dvd player and can't play surround from any other source because it has
no digital inputs.

My recommendation to people is to pick up a receiver that has AT LEAST one more
digital input than you need right now. This way you can at least add one more
source for surround in the future. The PS2 and Xbox both use digital fiber optic
(also known as Toslink) for surround and my guess is the 360 and PS3 will also, so
if you plan on having all 4 of those hooked up you need 4 Fiber Optic inputs etc...

More for digital/hd cable in surround, dvd player, HD dvd player, gamecube,
revolution, dvd recorder etc...

There's a whole lot more to receivers than this... But I hope this advice keeps you
from buying something cheap to save money, and then having to upgrade it
anyway when the 360 comes out.

[Carlo210]

thanks for the post zoik. I'd like to know how to distinguish if a receiver has digital outs (optical outs). I don't think futureshop it providing a thourough enough description:
WebID: 10049562
Mfr. Part Number: NOVA HT-DV409
# of Speakers in Package, Including Subwoofer  6
2-Way Centre Speakers  No
2-Way Main Speakers  Yes
2-Way Rear Speakers  No
Component Video Input/Output  1 Output
Disc Capacity  1
Dolby Digital EX  Yes
Dolby Digital Surround Sound  Yes
Dolby Pro Logic II  Yes
Dolby Pro Logic Surround  Yes
DTS Decoder  Yes  
DTS ES  Yes
Frequency Response  96KHz
Front-Panel A/V Inputs  No
Headphone Jack  No
Hook Up Wires Included  Yes
Included In Box  Remote, Manual, Cable, Antenna.
Includes DVD Player  Yes
Magnetically Shielded  Yes
Multiroom Capability  No
On-Screen Display  Yes
Preamp Outputs  1
Product Warranty  1 Year Parts & Labour
Product Weight  4.5kg
Progressive Scan DVD  Yes
Remote Type  Regular
S-Video In/Out  1
Speaker Colour  Silver
Stereo Audio Inputs/Outputs  1
Subwoofer Colour  Silver
Subwoofer Power  40W
Subwoofer Size  11 cm
System Colour  Silver
THX Select  No
THX Ultra II  No
 
To you see anything which would describe optical outs on this low end model?



Also, the basic pos./neg. connectors are for unpowered speakers and the regualr plugs are for powered speakers, right? Just to clear some things up.

This post has been edited by Carlo210: Jul 23 2005, 02:14 AM

[MetalZoic]

It looks like its a closed system... meaning no Digital inputs.

You'd want to look for something like:

Digital/surround sound inputs: 2 digital fiber optic, 1 digital coax

Or something similiar.
That system is exactly what I was talking about. It only does surround sound from
dvd's played in it. It will create "fake" surround sound from one other stereo (red
& white) input using Dolby Pro Logic.

But for the next round of systems (and the current Xbox) you want true, positional
5.1 surround-sound, and that means you MUST have a receiver with at least one
"Digital Fiber Optic Input"

Hope that helps.

[c00ly]

sorry, i'm just one of those people who think that there is no benefit from a digital signal v.s. an analog one, (if its coming out as 5.1 24 bit sound digital or analog it sounds like 24 bit 5.1 sound either way). thanks for the creative decoder sugesstion i will probably buy this.

[Carlo210]

QUOTE(MetalZoic @ Jul 23 2005, 03:56 AM)

It looks like its a closed system... meaning no Digital inputs.

You'd want to look for something like:

Digital/surround sound inputs: 2 digital fiber optic, 1 digital coax

Or something similiar.
That system is exactly what I was talking about. It only does surround sound from
dvd's played in it. It will create "fake" surround sound from one other stereo (red
& white) input using Dolby Pro Logic.

But for the next round of systems (and the current Xbox) you want true, positional
5.1 surround-sound, and that means you MUST have a receiver with at least one
"Digital Fiber Optic Input"

Hope that helps.

Actually none of the product descriptions say anything about digital outs except if you look at a receiver by itself. A 2999.99 system doesn't offer any info on the digital ins so I guess I'll just have to go and check for myself one day.

I am pretty sure it will have optical. I'm not 100%, since I do know what you mean by just its own dvd etc, but some of the reviews on it talk about using it on their ps2 and having it sound good. Still not sure whether they were just listening to stereo sound, though.


And Cooly, you coulnd't be more wrong. you CANNOT receive surround sound without digital because with analog, there is no decoding to each speaker. with analog, you just get the basic left, right, center basic stuff.

It's not in terms of digital quality vs analog quality, it's in terms of you not being able to get surround sound. You can opt for analog, but you are not going to get full 5.1 support. analog and digital are much different in these rspects. It's not like comparing a crt to an lcd screen saying crts are fine, just like you are saying analog audio positioning is fine. It's like saying you like blackand white tvs instead of color because you still see what you need to see.

Learn a little bit on what you are talking about before you post your opinion because your opinion doesn't mean a thing if it's based on bs.

You obviously don't know what optical cables are for and what the point of a decoder is along the lines of Dolby digital vs Dolby pro logic.
Digital isn't for the sound quality, it's for the use of higher level decoders, such as Dolby digital, which seperates frequencies (which your analog decoders don't detect nearly as efficiently) and sends them to the correctspeakers. Analog just sends highs and lows throgh either the center channel and l/r channels while not being able to detect frequencies from, for example, bullets going from infront of you to behind you. Instead, with analog, it will just play the sound normally but through the right speaker. the bullets sound will just go lower, making you understand that the bullet is going behind you, but not nearly worth mentioning.

You can't pick the more simpler solution, such as analog setups, just because that is what you are used to.
You don't know half of what we are talking about, so you put out an uneducated conclusion and see if people approve or not. If we approve, then your random conclusion, which is the simpler of the two, is good to go with. Right?

Sorry to ramble on, but I know what side of the road you are driving on.
Analog is all you know about, so you want to convice others that analog is in no way different than digital. Then you can feel good about your analog decision.

sorry again for rambling on. I did this once when I said crts are better in every way to flat panels. I recently took a ride to futureshop and noticed that lcds have a brighter picture etc, even though they lag. The crts looked like junk compared to them.
I also found out that rear projection dlps are the best looking right now. You see, this is in experience.
I'm no longer saying 'Hey, I am able to get a crt because they are cheap, so i'll make others think that CRTs are better than any other medium so they will approve of my buying decision'. No, I'm being realistic now since I've seen and experienced what I was talking about.

Hey, at least I'm being honest.    Right guys?

Digital audio isn't a gimmick or anything. Just check it out and THEN make your informed decision. After then, by no means could you say you like listening from 3 front speakers or the same sound being literally spread out through 5 speakers instead of a true 5.1 surround sound ambient decoded Digital (meaning the signals are organized and certain frequencies are sent to different speakers along with what is encoded into the media). You can't say no to real (digital)surround sound versus analog simulated 3d sound, it's just not one of those things.

This post has been edited by Carlo210: Jul 23 2005, 05:46 AM