QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
No. I'm posting it mainly try to question the intelligence of the previous poster(including YOU), and trying to bring some balance to the matter.
Beware of your word usage, "troll and bash" ? I just merely point out the fact that most US and EU devs make 30fps games.
A troll is someone who signs up for a forum with the explicit intent of creating controversy. There was no controversy and creating it where there was none before isn't bringing balance. BC decided to make the game 30FPS... that's it end of discussion. Discussing the merits of dropping other features to bring up the framerate or visa-versa would be a good balance. proclaiming other games with different goals are superior simply because they made different choices with little to no factual backing as to WHY it might be better is looking for trouble.
Also blindly proclaiming that developers are "lazy" as your only real reason for the choice is bashing. I hold software developers in high regard, and your brazen and unfounded accusations to that effect are not appreciated.
QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
Where is the freedom of speech, "American" ? It's like saying oppose to war == unpatriotic , pls leave your kind of american spirit to yourself or maybe in Texas.
Despite popular believe, X-S is not an American site, and regardless of where the site is hosted it's a private site... free speech doesn't exist here. Lets leave politics out of a game discussion, the fact that you even brought it up further proves your tolling intentions. Also you might want to look at a map of the US some time... Texas is nowhere near Canada.
And while we're on the topic of free speech I'm in no way shape or form repressing what you have to say... simply disagreeing with you and pointing out what I perceive to be flaws in your argument and observations about your intentions here. Why should I not be able to voice my own options?
...if you continue the trend you've been following I will relieve you of your posting abilities.
QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
You're right. My mistake. I played MSR back in Dreamcast and I should know. But it does not change the fact that vast majority of the US and EU developers only dev 30 fps games. Only explanation is either they lacks the skills (unlikely), or just plain lazy, unwilling to put the extra efforts to optimize.
60fps doesn't come out of nowhere, the games that typically have higher frame rates usually suffer in other areas by having lower resolution texture, lower count polygons, less special effects, etc.
Sometimes I'm quite impressed with what a developer was able to do with a game, other times I find myself wishing that a developer opted for 30FPS over 60 or 720p over 1080p because the trade-offs were too great.
optimization will only take you so far, most games that opt for the higher frame rate or higher resolution while visibly smoother, suffer in other areas. It's a decision by the developer which is more important, it seems to me that US/EU developers care more about higher resolution textures and higher detailed/polygon count backgrounds while JP developers care more about higher framerates and fluid gameplay.
It's a design decisions and has nothing to do with being lazy or unwilling to optimize. Parading that line is quite frankly insulting to the intelligent men and women who work ridiculous hours at relatively low pay to cater to our hobby.
QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
Those are all just marketing term. In the end only the results (graphic and gameplay) matter. It's just like term "HEMI" or "VTEC", at the end it's the HP and speed that counts. Just to remind you, rendering actual 3D object is the basis of the real physical simulation. The fact is PGR3 at 30fps and GT4 at 60fps. Saying PGR3 renders physics at 360fps is like saying my optical laser mouse render at 8000fps. Ridiculous and highly misleading.
I don't know where you got the idea of a marketing term but Forza genuinely does calculate the car's physics 300 whatever times per second based on conditions, and GT does not... it's not some marketing ploy its a fact. Your examples are poor as well because they do actually make a difference..
HEMI is short for hemispherical which refers to the unique shape of the top of the cylinder and the fact that the sparkplug is mounted at the very center. which provides more even pressure on combustion across the piston and allows for higher reliably when pushed to it's limit.
VTEC refers to the computer controlled timing adjustments within the engine, the VTEC system which while not a unique system it's not a common one either. it does imply that the vehicle has more power than a similar vehicle without the system. And since the VTEC system doesn't kick in until higher RPMs it implies that the power offered by the vehicle is heavily loaded towards redline.
Some might argue that 60FPS is just as much of a marketing term considering in tests done by Activision (I can't find the link right now) found that over 80% of gamers couldn't tell the difference between the same game running at 30FPS and running at 60FPS. I can see the difference and I do realize it does make a difference but most people cannot. I also notice the difference in physics characteristics between something scripted and something calculated live despite the fact that most probably cannot... I also notice the difference between a game with low res textures and a game with high res textures, despite the fact that most cannot.
Sometimes things are just marketing terms... other times you just aren't appreciating the difference.
QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
And you called that kind of crash damage a real simulation? A real physics simulation of the crash damage would be blown the car into many pieces, tire exploded and wheel falling off. A few bumps and fake glass shattering here and little slow down there are hardly a realistic physical damage simulation. The car looks like damaged but in term of physical damage simulation in a racing game, both PGR3 and GT4 hardly get it right.
No I don't call that kind of crash damage a real simulation, but it's MORE of a simulation than not even trying. The realism of the crash damage in the PGR and Forza series is no more fake than the physics in the GT series.... that is to say it's scripted and not actually calculated in real time.
QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
I appreciate both photo realistic graphic and convincing gameplay, that's why I'd go extra effort of playing GT4 in the KAI network.
See I go for realistic gameplay and convincing graphics... while I enjoy great graphics I'd rather they suffer a little for the sake of better gameplay and physics. I have a good enough imagination that any flaws in the graphics are easily ignored but I find it difficult to ignore things moving in unnatural and scripted fashions.
QUOTE(ixus238 @ Jul 15 2007, 05:56 AM)
Seems like ppl here have a tendency of lowering their gaming standard for the developers convenience. That's why I suggest you further lower yourself and settle on hard drivin. Who knows, you might like it if it's from Microsoft not Atari.
I don't think anyone is lowering their standards... I just think that many people feel there are more important things than frame rate. Not everyone holds your views on what the most important factor in a game is... apparently the developers don't either.
I don't think anyone LIKES or prefers 30FPS but sometimes it just doesn't make enough of a difference to have other aspects of the game suffer for the sake of 60FPS. That's my personal opinion and it's pretty clear that a lot of other people feel that way as well.
and I do really love hard drivin, I play it quite frequently actually because I enjoy the gameplay, I'm guessing you don't like it because it was made by Lazy American developers.
And no I don't particularly care for MS, I never owned Forza 1 and I don't own Forza 2, I own GT3 and GT4 and personally thought GT4 was a piece of junk compared to 3. And I quite enjoy the PGR series as well, even if most of them do only run at 30FPS.
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Topic: E3: PGR 4's Lack Of 60 FPS A 'Conscious Decision' (Read 1062 times)