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[LowProfileWurm]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Nov 29 2005, 02:09 PM)

Like I said, things that are done with expansion packs.

They can add all the shit in the world but if the game doesnt present me a new challenge (not just new modes) they are not moving forward. This holds true for any game.

Ok... then what have they added to PE5 that wasn't present in the past 4 games?  Better graphics?  It's all just kicking a ball around.  Why not just call it Pro Evo Expansion 4?  ALL games are like this... Quake, UT, DOA, Gran Turismo, Ace Combat, etc.  New challenges are inherent in the new modes.  Something new to try out.  Getting $10M in damage on Traffic Attack is a challenge.  The challenge for developers is coming up with new ways to challenge everyone.  In Burnout, that was agressive AI.  I think you just came to expect too much from the series.  Burnout 3 was a HUGE jump from Burnout 2... that's a big improvement that's hard to live up to, at least on this generation.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Nov 29 2005, 01:18 PM)

Ok... then what have they added to PE5 that wasn't present in the past 4 games?  Better graphics?  It's all just kicking a ball around.  Why not just call it Pro Evo Expansion 4?

Have you even really played PES5 and not just the demo? It is very different than PES4 gameplay wise. The graphics are the same, some faces look better but thats all. The game does not even play the same as PES4. Go read some PES forums, you can't play PES5 the way you played PES4, you have to learn a whole new game. Many people are having a problem with this because it presents a new challenge, not just new modes. Hardcore footie fans like myself are overjoyed by this. Like I said, just check out some of the forums.

www.pesinsight.com
www.soccergaming.com
www.pesfan.com
www.evo-web.co.uk

[LowProfileWurm]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Nov 29 2005, 02:28 PM)

Have you even really played PES5 and not just the demo? It is very different than PES4 gameplay wise. The graphics are the same, some faces look better but thats all. The game does not even play the same as PES4. Go read some PES forums, you can't play PES5 the way you played PES4, you have to learn a whole new game. Many people are having a problem with this. Like I said, just check out some of the forums.

I've played soccer for the past 18 years (I started when I was 4, I'm 25... minus 3 years of college) and I'll tell you, soccer hasn't changed much.  As a result, gameplay shouldn't change much.  The control tightness maybe, but not the style.  If they've changed how you direct a kick, or how you curve a strike, fantastic... you're still kicking a ball.  That's not a new challenge, it's improved control.  PES5 is better than FIFA for that exact reason, which justifies its purchase, but to say Burnout is "just an expansion pack" is unfair.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Nov 29 2005, 01:37 PM)

I've played soccer for the past 18 years (I started when I was 4, I'm 25... minus 3 years of college) and I'll tell you, soccer hasn't changed much. As a result, gameplay shouldn't change much.  The control tightness maybe, but not the style.

By your logic then all footie games should play the same since soccer hasnt changed Do all teams play the same style in real life? I don't think so. Do all players play the same style in real life? No, far from it. Lets stop preaching BS here buddy.

[LowProfileWurm]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Nov 29 2005, 02:45 PM)

Isnt that the difference between FIFA and PES, the style of play. By your logic then, all footie games should play the same since soccer hasnt changed
Please, go register at any of those four forums and try to say that PES5 hasnt drastically changed from PES4 and we will see how fast people tell you otherwise.

They should disable the eyeroll face... it's really fucking annoying.  I don't mind debate, but I hate condescending attitude and that smiley is the epitome of condescending.

Anyway, YES, the difference between FIFA and PES5 is gameplay.  It's also the difference between Burnout and Flatout, SSX and Amped, CoD and MoH, Forza and GT4.  Gameplay is the most important aspect of a game.  But gameplay and it's respective challenge stems from the new additions added to games and in the case of Burnout 3 vs. Burnout Revenge... the gameplay was adequately changed to present a fresh take on an aging series.  If you didn't like the new gameplay mechanics, then that explains why you don't think Burnout Revenge was an improvement over Burnout 3.  The reason I singled out PES (despite the fact that I know you worship it ) is because it's a soccer game and the basic principles of the game itself haven't changed much.  It's the gameplay that defines the game and you have to agree with that by your own volition.

[deftonesmx17]

QUOTE(LowProfileWurm @ Nov 29 2005, 01:56 PM)

They should disable the eyeroll face... it's really fucking annoying.  I don't mind debate, but I hate condescending attitude and that smiley is the epitome of condescending.

Sorry, but you brought in PES5 as if it hasnt changed from PES4, which is far from true. Dont make such false assumptions and I wont be condescending.

[LowProfileWurm]

QUOTE(deftonesmx17 @ Nov 29 2005, 03:25 PM)

Sorry, but you brought in PES5 as if it hasnt changed from PES4, which is far from true. Dont make such false assumptions and I wont be condescending.

I did it on purpose as stated above... but I'll assume our debate is over now as you did not reply to my other comments.