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[dom0012]

this is only speculation, none of this is proven fact.... so dont get all pissed off yet.  

[Aurahead]

lol
so they really try to get it impossible to modd Xbox360  
This battle between hacker and MS can begin  

[flashfreak]

When I read it, i didn't know what to think at first, but then I realised, as have other people, that it may be an anti-chip attempt.

If some kind of different bios, unsigned code or anything like that is found, tested and passed, the efuse will cut the circuit and that will be it.

Smart move.

[sumdude]

QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Mar 7 2006, 09:04 PM)

It basically monitors the chips resources. If it detects "problems" or potential "problems” it can adjust other fuses to regulate itself... "Repair itself" some might say...

So if a part of the chip starts taking too much power or what have you the eFuse can catch it, turn on a few fuses and adjust it or regulate it before damage occurs.
In the article here... the author is simply saying, since the eFuse is present it can be controlled by software commands. So the POSSIBILTY of MS or someone else sending a code to "destroy" itself is present...

But as others may have said above... this is most likely VERY unlikely that MS would do this.
Ignore spelling please...

It might be possible if they did, modders could find what electrical signal that if that MS would send and make a program to disable that signal from coming to the Efuse and thus not destroy the 360box.

[xsirxx]

what u all are forgetting is, the bios on the dvdrom drive can be hacked.  Besides that the chip will need a lesson to do any of what yer talking about, that lesson will hafta come from an update or something else.  So get off live and enjoy yer system.  If you want that system to be continuely updated then play live and forget for now about hacking it.  It all really depends on if u want to play yer system online or have all the extra functions offline.  I dont see what the fuss is about.  Want yer cake and eat it too?

[cpi]

FS_Enable is more than likely controlled by the hypervisor. If it detects a problem then it will do the modifications via eFuse. Don't believe any fuzzy feel good reason for it. This is a security feature that has DRM (digital rights management) written all over it.

If for example the DVD firmware hack is released, all MS needs to do is add a simple routine to the next batch of released games. This could also include software to test for 6B disable.
The 360 could already be programmed to detect certain mods and make the neccessary changes.

I would like the companies that are implementing this technology to include an information screen (or blade) that will disclose what features have been enable or disabled by blowing an eFuse. I believe consumers deserve this at a minimum.

Who is going to buy used equipment if there a possiblity of disabled Xbox Live, Networking, DVD -r,CDR, or even changed CPU performance? The list is endless. Who is going to know? MS?

CPI

[torne]

There's a point everyone seems to be missing here, though, which is that although it's interesting that the eFuse array is software-programmable (and thus destructible in humourous ways), the presence of an eFuse array at all in a piece of hardware usually indicates a unique encryption key or other kind of identification. TI OMAP processors with a secure boot path use eFuse to store the key for the first stage of the bootloader, for example. This would tie neatly to the notion that the 360's bios is encrypted with a key that differs from one console to another - it's relatively easy to blow the corresponding key into the eFuses at quite a late stage in production, rather cheaply.

The interesting thing there is that eFuses are quite 'large' by silicon standards, and can in some cases be read by optical means (if you disassemble the chip completely and examine the die under a powerful microscope)... anyone want to crack their CPU open and have a look?

[parediolia]

If there is a will there is a way. I have no doubts that this thing will get hacked it may take a while but it will. This isn't just about getting the most out of our hardware its about fighting the man. And the man is a dick. Lol.

[ukanndewit]

Don't be paranoid about efuses.  Once the chip is out of the factory they can't be changed.

[mxeDiT10n]

QUOTE(ukanndewit @ Mar 9 2006, 05:27 AM)

Don't be paranoid about efuses.  Once the chip is out of the factory they can't be changed.

 

And exactly what do you mean by, "Once the chip is out of the factory they can't be changed."?

See below quote:

"The technology works by constantly monitoring chip functionality and initiating corrective actions by tripping inexpensive, simple electrical fuses that are designed into the chip. The activated fuses help the chip control individual circuit speed to manage power consumption and repair unexpected, potentially costly flaws."

- EETimes.com  http://www.eetimes.c...questid=1766058

[cpi]

If eFuses were only programmed at the factory there would not be a need for the Fuse Supply Enabling circuit. They would simply apply the 3.5 volt Fuse Supply using probes and then program them.

This has another purpose such as changing the encryption, banning units from live etc, I could go on and on.

Also, if this was just for repair, why have an external enabling circuit? IBM could have incorporated it into the die.
IBM knows you don't give a system control over this type of technology without an off switch. The consquences could be disasterous. I just wish MS felt the same way.

Software Guys...They want to control over everything. ;-)

CPI

[torne]

QUOTE(cpi @ Mar 9 2006, 01:37 PM)

This has another purpose such as changing the encryption, banning units from live etc, I could go on and on.

Quite possibly, though there are severe limitations on what you can use an eFuse for. They're called fuses for a reason - they start off all reading as '1' bits, and you 'program' them by *putting through more current than they can handle*, which makes them blow, and thus read as a 0 bit. There is no way to change 0's into 1's

So, you can't change an encryption key stored in eFuse very easily, because you can't flip the 0 bits. You could have space for a second key that had not yet been programmed, but eFuses are large by silicon standards as I mentioned before, so you don't want to put too many on a die as it'll take up a lot of space.

You could quite easily have an 'am I allowed on Live' bit, though

[cpi]

Here's how the efuses are programmed and read.

Program
serial In->invert->shift reg->load latch->enable Fuse supply->blow fuse

Read
sense fuse->load latch->shift reg->serial out

Now look at the serial eeprom. ;-) Does this explain the "FF"? Find the bypass and your laughin.


CPI

[akodoreign]

I guess my only question is can a malicious user send out a packet and cause the e-fuse to blow on systems globaly?

If that is the case MS would be up shits creek and have to rethink everything. Course I dont want this to happen since I love my 360 but the question kept bugging me so I had to ask.

[nj12nets]

how would the malicious code get on the 360 in the first place?  it is most likely in there in case we mod the system and the system detects it.  you guys are thinking on small scale.  prove the efuse fuckd up your system and not the modchip.  they have no responsibility to fix the system after you opened it and voided your warranty or changed any software or code and voided your warrranty.

This post has been edited by nj12nets: Mar 15 2006, 02:01 AM