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[Xbox-Scene]

The real reason Microsoft won't bring Blu-ray to the Xbox: HDi Posted by XanTium | March 21 23:57 EST | News Category: Xbox360

From thestandard.com: Microsoft stepped up to deliver iHD (later renamed HDi), which was a trademarked implementation of HD DVD's XML markup language. Toshiba liked it. They made HDi functionality a standard for HD DVD players, and eventually partnered with Microsoft to expand HDi's reach by founding the Advanced Interactivity Consortium. The primary goal of this group was forging industry relationships to further promote HDi in emerging outlets like downloadable and streaming media. The deal gave HD DVD its competitive next-gen features, but here's the rub: Microsoft didn't need physical media to implement HDi. All of HDi's interactive bells and whistles could theoretically be applied to downloadable video content, as long as a runtime environment was available. Even as the disc format war raged on, elements of HDi's runtime environment showed up in Microsoft products like the Xbox 360 and Vista. So, let's put everything together. Microsoft has a popular gaming console and an operating system that are HDi compatible. It also has a group of developers working on HDi applications, and a 360-accessible HD video library that could feasibly be outfitted with next-gen interactivity features. All that's left is the dog and pony show needed to convince content providers that HDi-enhanced content and Microsoft's video outlets are key to making HD video downloads a viable revenue stream. Full Story: thestandard.com

[twistedsymphony]

What they didn't mention was that theoretically Blu-Ray discs could use HDi as well (if the player supports it), and at one point the Blu-Ray consortium heavily considered it.

Ultimately they passed it up for a much more flexible and platform independent (eg: supported in Linux, Mac, etc.) Java based protocol.

Because of the late term switch the Blu-Ray "spec" was late to be finalized, but IMO it's one of the few things Sony and the rest of the Blu-Ray backers did RIGHT with Blu-Ray...

the last thing I would have wanted is a next gen format who's only method of dynamic development was through the use of an ungodly expensive development kit, using a proprietary language that ultimately was only ever going to run on one and only one operating system.

HDi isn't all it's cracked up to be, and when it comes down to it the Java based language that Blu-Ray uses is much more in-tune with the likes of projects like XMBC, MythTV and other open source/homebrew projects.

[Charbless]

it was nothing to do with the blu-ray backers it was to do with Sony refusing to use hdi this is the reason why the format war happened all because of Sony refusing to talk.

[erexx]

Isn't this the HDi (MSJ-Script) vs. JAVA (BD-J)  issue that this the corner stone of the reason why we don't have a unified format?

Toshiba offered to bring a unified format if Sony agreed to include HDi.
Sony said no.

Microsoft stepped up to nothing except their own format and neither did Sony and Sun.
Microsoft and SUN have never been good friends.

[fiya]

so why do they consider this the "real" reason instead of one of the reasons? I mean there are plenty other reasons why MS wouldn't put blu ray in the 360, very important tactical reasons for that matter. I guess when u word it that way it makes it sound more like a conspiracy of some sort.

[ONI5]

HDi still is far superior to even the upcoming BDLIVE.  Most people don't understand that HD-DVD was just a higher capacity version of WMVHD format, which they give out free samples of the HDi framework for people to use.

[BasicAir]

This article provides a good lesson on HDi and what it meant for HD DVD and what it could mean for downloadable HD movies. But that's it. Nowhere does the article explain why this is the most important reason why MS wouldn't pursue a Blu-ray addon for the 360. It isn't even implied.

This article should be titled "Microsoft's HDi Could Make Downloadable Movies A Biiger Threat to Blu-ray" and nothing more. What a joke...

[jimk72]

Sorry to say but DL HD content is not yet close to HD video and audio. After the HD DVD format was discontinued we tried to rent a movie on the xbox and the quality is not HD or Bluray quality. Sure most people don't have the equipment that shines with HD video and audio but some of us have invested in a higher end HD experience that DL content cannot provide. I had an upscan converter dvd player before I got my HD DVD player so the picture was not as impressive as the sound difference. HD audio was like going from 2 speakers to 5 back when dolby prologic first came out. Until they hit the same level of quality and you can keep the video you download until you are done then I will not use DL videos.

Like I said before, if you are a gamer you will get the Xbox 360. If you don't do your research or you want a cheap Bluray player you will get a PS3. All these people anticipating the fall of the 360 because HD DVD is gone needs to realize the 360 has won and will continue to win until Sony stops working on Bluray and focuses on the fact there PS3 has hardly any great games.

[erexx]

What will make down loadable content viable is the bandwidth to deliver it to everyone at a reasonable price and speed.

The primary format IPTV was going to be delivered in was fought through the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war.

SUN's JVM won big here... not just Sony's profits from Hollywood.
Like it or hate it is the upcoming conduit for the IPTV platform.
Not only embedded in Blu-Ray but likely most standard IPTV boxes of the future.
BD-J is an important part of the IPTV based market. See: Multimedia Home Platform

Microsoft would certainly like to see one of its own standards as part of this market.
Unfortunately HDi just doesn't fit into the existing picture of a Globally Executable MHP

This does not mean MS wont try.
Does not mean they wont be successful.
It will just be harder for them to leverage without a "standard" distribution channel for their product.
Maybe they will be able to find a way with Toshiba in the long run to compete using HDi.
Who knows?

But you have to ask yourself,
Do you think MS likes the idea of licensing Java from SUN?
Much less splitting the pie with Sony and SUN?
Does this make sense now why Sony and SUN walked away from the table when Toshiba and Microsoft offered their final resolution to avoid a format war?

[g8crapachino]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ Mar 22 2008, 07:19 AM)

What they didn't mention was that theoretically Blu-Ray discs could use HDi as well (if the player supports it), and at one point the Blu-Ray consortium heavily considered it.

Ultimately they passed it up for a much more flexible and platform independent (eg: supported in Linux, Mac, etc.) Java based protocol.

Because of the late term switch the Blu-Ray "spec" was late to be finalized, but IMO it's one of the few things Sony and the rest of the Blu-Ray backers did RIGHT with Blu-Ray...

the last thing I would have wanted is a next gen format who's only method of dynamic development was through the use of an ungodly expensive development kit, using a proprietary language that ultimately was only ever going to run on one and only one operating system.

HDi isn't all it's cracked up to be, and when it comes down to it the Java based language that Blu-Ray uses is much more in-tune with the likes of projects like XMBC, MythTV and other open source/homebrew projects.

We are talking about specs that boil down to how the menus and movies for Hi-Def media would be presented to the user.  After all you've said you haven't actually given any good reason why Java is any better HDi at doing that.  All I read in your post is typhical anti-Microsoft open source reasoning, alot of argumentative talk but very little substance.    Your blatant assumtions that it's "ungodly expensive" and "going to run on one and only one operating system" are just that, assumptions.  Under those similiar assumptions, Java is also a proprietary language developed by a large multi-nation corporation called Sun for the purposes of making revenue.  

Why do you even care?  Give me one rational reason why the average person who walks into a Wal-mart, or any other store, to buy a Hi-Def movie would have actually cared whether the movie was presented to them using HDi or Java?

[spinr34]

java = evil. that's all i got to say

[erexx]

QUOTE(g8crapachino @ Mar 22 2008, 11:28 PM)

We are talking about specs that boil down to how the menus and movies for Hi-Def media would be presented to the user.  After all you've said you haven't actually given any good reason why Java is any better HDi at doing that.  All I read in your post is typhical anti-Microsoft open source reasoning, alot of argumentative talk but very little substance.    Your blatant assumtions that it's "ungodly expensive" and "going to run on one and only one operating system" are just that, assumptions.  Under those similiar assumptions, Java is also a proprietary language developed by a large multi-nation corporation called Sun for the purposes of making revenue.  

Why do you even care?  Give me one rational reason why the average person who walks into a Wal-mart, or any other store, to buy a Hi-Def movie would have actually cared whether the movie was presented to them using HDi or Java?

Good point.
The average consumer could care less.
To be more accurate its MS Java Script (HDi) vs. Sun Java (BD-J is a part of the overall SUN JVM)
To the geek who's watched MS battle SUN over the years I never expected it be the deciding factor in the hi-def war between multi-national corporations.

[Australian Rat]

DLC is years from being available worldwide, simply because atm not all countries have the available bandwidth to support HD video downloads (some do yes, not all however).  So if ms backed HDi for this reason it was a foolish one, although perhaps they were considering what may be 10+ years down the track.

Secondly it has been said before that people like to own something physical with the movie, like a disc, whether it be DVD or Blueray.  Someone mentioned before what about after downloading it taking it to a friends house, or even just playing it on a player/computer in another room..... the way DRM works these days it seems unlikely.

Third, now I know there are a lot of people here who consider themselves audio/videophiles and love the move to HD from regular DVD, but to the majority of people moving from DVD to Blueray isn't as impressive as say moving from VHS to DVD.  Yes the quality is much better, but DVD is still pretty good for the average person who just throws in a movie every now and again.  Only the most expensive equipment at the moment takes advantage of so called "Full HD" 1080p (although it is slowly coming down in price).  My feeling is for many years people (like me) will be happy with plain old DVD.

Last..... (promise)  who really cares all that much about interactive features??  I get a movie for the movie, and while the initial "oooh" at some speccy menu might be a nice touch, it's nothing I find all that important.

My long winded 2c

[erexx]

QUOTE(Australian Rat @ Mar 23 2008, 02:15 AM)

DLC is years from being available worldwide, simply because atm not all countries have the available bandwidth to support HD video downloads (some do yes, not all however).  So if ms backed HDi for this reason it was a foolish one, although perhaps they were considering what may be 10+ years down the track.

Agreed.
For the time being it will only be available to those who can get and afford the bandwidth.

QUOTE

Secondly it has been said before that people like to own something physical with the movie, like a disc, whether it be DVD or Blueray.  Someone mentioned before what about after downloading it taking it to a friends house, or even just playing it on a player/computer in another room..... the way DRM works these days it seems unlikely.

Agreed.
DLC will not compete.
It will compliment.
Nothing beats removable media.
It can be moved and played from any location and sold to anyone when you don't want it anymore.

QUOTE

Third, now I know there are a lot of people here who consider themselves audio/videophiles and love the move to HD from regular DVD, but to the majority of people moving from DVD to Blueray isn't as impressive as say moving from VHS to DVD.  Yes the quality is much better, but DVD is still pretty good for the average person who just throws in a movie every now and again.  Only the most expensive equipment at the moment takes advantage of so called "Full HD" 1080p (although it is slowly coming down in price).  My feeling is for many years people (like me) will be happy with plain old DVD.

I am not.
I keep my HD and SD separate.
I love both.

QUOTE

Last..... (promise)  who really cares all that much about interactive features??  I get a movie for the movie, and while the initial "oooh" at some speccy menu might be a nice touch, it's nothing I find all that important.

Its just not about Interactive Features.
This is about the mechanism that will be used to deliver IPTV to a world wide market.
BD-J will be used just like HDi would have been if HD-DVD won the format "war"
This was MS vs. SUN.

QUOTE

My long winded 2c

Thank you.  

[tutu]

Statements like this make me want to buy a PS3