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[Andrew_Roy]

QUOTE(Tiuk @ Jan 28 2008, 09:26 PM)

I assume you meant < 5 years?

Though > 5 is more likely.

[djtonic]

QUOTE(namrrac @ Jan 29 2008, 12:58 AM)

Do you not realize that all physical media is going to go the way of the dodo?  Most of the major movie rental places are closing up shop.  People can't afford to pay $30 for a movie, when their mortgage went up.  Once the US has the internet infrastructure that the Asian nations have, all media will be in a digital form. I say >5 years.

you seem to be quite the expert on a lot of things...are you a financial advisor?  A retail analyst?  A telecom engineer?  A international business man?

I assume then that you live in said "Asian nations"?  Also, which major movie rental places are closing?  There are a few major ones here on the east cost that are doing just fine.  The 90's and blockbuster video is what killed the mom and pop video rental stores if that's what you are talking about.

Besides arent DVD and HD-DVD and Blu-ray already "digital"?  Not since Laser Disc and vhs have movies been analogue if I am right.

I've been annoyed by the "digital download" argument for a while, but your post is so end of the world, apocalypse now!

Back to the topic on hand...I remember reading an article a long time ago about MS never saying never to bluray.  I don't think they will release anymore add on players though for the 360.  I don't care who they talk to.

~Dj~

[DarkSky Forever]

I'm willing to bet my left nut the next xbox will use HD-DVD for it's media, and be backwards compatible with DVD.

They need the additional storage, and they don't want to pay money to Sony for Blu-Ray.

If it isn't HD-DVD, it'll be something like it, but why wouldn't they use HD-DVD since Toshiba will be practically giving the tech. away?

[jesterrace777]

It's all a moot point since one of the big reasons why talks broke down last time was because of the whole HDi versus Java thing.  The Blu-Ray consortium REFUSED to abandon Java in favor of HDi, hence the reason why the fallout in mid-2005 and both sides pressing ahead.  So unless the BD folks decide to completely abandon Java (heavens only knows what sort of playback issues that would create since it's a totally different system) in favor of HDi, I just don't see it.

[jesterrace777]

Probably because the only real movement on the Blu-Ray side is Sony.  Sure there are the free standalones which Samsung and Sharp are giving away with certain HDTV sets (which is contributing to the misleading sales numbers) but in reality between the PS3 and Sony standalones they easily control 85% of the hardware sales and are the driving force that is strong-arming the movie studios to support Blu-Ray.  The fact of the matter is that Blu-Ray would be on it's way out right now if the PS3 tanked.

[Chancer]

QUOTE(jesterrace777 @ Jan 29 2008, 11:51 AM)

Probably because the only real movement on the Blu-Ray side is Sony.  Sure there are the free standalones which Samsung and Sharp are giving away with certain HDTV sets (which is contributing to the misleading sales numbers) but in reality between the PS3 and Sony standalones they easily control 85% of the hardware sales and are the driving force that is strong-arming the movie studios to support Blu-Ray.  The fact of the matter is that Blu-Ray would be on it's way out right now if the PS3 tanked.

The real fact of the matter is this is a very shrewd move by Sony. They are in business to make money and if they used a way to boost Blu Ray and it worked. I could quote ifs all day long. If Ms had never bothered with a HD DVD drive add on most of the guys on here would never have bought a standalone.
By definition the PS3 is a standalone player. It counts as standalone install base. Look up the term standalone. I can purchase a a PS3 purely for playing Blu- Ray movies and I need no other unit to couple it to. It makes me laugh how we hear "There are no games for the PS3" yet the same people who quote that, find it hard to believe that people would buy a PS3 as the cheapest way into Blu-Ray playback.
Technically the 360 add on is not a standalone player. Someone can not buy that in a shop and plug it into their TV with no additional equipment.

Sony gambled on and even suffered delays by making the PS3 a Blu Ray player. It looks like that gamble might have paid off. Whatever your prejudice against Sony as a company (In general that forms the basis for many of the anti Blu ray guys in here) it has been a good business move for them.

MS gambled on HD DVD and also hoped some people may buy a 360 and the drive together in order for a cheap way into HD DVD. At the time the add on was released, they didn't foresee Toshiba hacking prices and driving sales at this point to standalone players, effectively killing sales of the add on to people who only want to play HD DVD. I wanted a player but never even considered the Add on, due to the fact the Toshiba is so cheap.
 
The real clever guys here are possibly the ones who have the patience to sit it out and wait and are quite happy to watch DVD until prices are at a reasonable level and support for one format is sorted. That may not be either BR or HD DVD but either way they will step in at the right time and buy the right product.
Trouble is without idiots like me who always buy early into stuff even , risking wasting money or losing on features of later models, nothing would ever move on. Someone always has to make the first move for others to follow on.

[jesterrace777]

Meh. I don't have enough invested in HD-DVD to lose anything if the format tanks so no biggie.  That's one of the many reasons why I went with them over Blu-Ray.  It's definitely still possible for Blu-Ray to still be beaten out by regular DVD and I don't want to be the one stuck with a $400-$500 player that can't take over from DVD.

[jesterrace777]

I'm not seeing your logic here.  Sony is in it to make $.  They sell the PS3 at an average loss of $125 but with the intent to make up the losses with Game sales and Blu-Ray sales.  I concur that it was a VERY smart move for Sony to incorporate the Blu-Ray playback into the PS3, but unless you are interested in the PS3 titles then it  doesn't make it a smart investment.  I've seen a few people purchase them just for BD capabilities but the average joe definitely won't spend $400 on a player no matter what the format is.

[0794]

not sure how this could be bad news to anyone except those significantly invested in HD DVD.

sure, it sounds like certain people are not getting the memos when we hear "official" conflicting evidence from MS, but they are a business and as such will need to make a profit to exist and pay their employees.  as such, if they deem it necessary or worthwhile to pay sony for the use of technology so that MS can make more profit then they will.  they wouldn't snub something of this importance just because of dislike for a company.

i, as a consumer, welcome the expanding of HD technology to both increase market share and also drive down cost.  and if that means MS licenses blu-ray then that is great news.

[running_wild]

QUOTE(PandaExpress @ Jan 30 2008, 04:41 PM)

Unlike Sony if MS realy wanted HDdvd to win they would have been giving free HDdvd players away with every 360 sold.
but no they charged $199 and that just shows they were in it only to make $$.
Blu-Ray won because Sony was in it to win not make $$.
Sony gave me a free Blu-Ray player when I got a PS3, and in return I supported Blu-Ray by watching Blu-Ray only.
when I got an Elite that I payed $450 for I didnt get a free HDdvd add on, Y? because MS is in it too make $$ not to win.
So in In short MS will make a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360 with in the next 3 years because they don't care who wins as long as they make $$$,$$$$,$$$.99

You're an idiot. Sony is in it for the money just as any other company is - Thats how business works.

Sony also never gave you a "Free" blu-ray player at all! It was all factored into the cost of the PS3 that you paid for - albiet for cheaper then a standalone player. The fact stands however - if there was no Blu-ray hardware in the machine, it would have been cheaper to purchase. (I know the PS3 needs the space etc, but I'm trying to make the point here that your blu-ray machine was in no way free.)

[running_wild]

QUOTE(running_wild @ Jan 31 2008, 05:39 PM)

You're an idiot...

 

Alright, I admit it was a bit harsh - I just had a nasty work day today. My apologies.

It was the element of fanboyism that triggered it, though you diddn't deserve it. If I could edit it - I would. I stand by what I said about sony and how "Free" the blu-ray player though.

[chrislynch]

QUOTE(PandaExpress @ Jan 31 2008, 04:32 PM)

I know sony is in it to make $$$, they have to be.
I am talking about how MS is not and was not committed to HDdvd to see it win.
what did MS do for hddvd to win? what did MS sacrifice to see hddvd win?
they made an add on and sold it for profit.
was MS in it to see hddvd win?
Sony was committed to see BR win, Sony sacrificed the PS3 to see BR win, they lost lot of $$ and still are, all to see BR win.
people here think MS is fighting for hddvd and they are in a fight with sony,
but in reality MS is not in the HD fight, it was an opportunity for MS to get in and profit from the the So-Called HD War.

this is MS. BR? HD? what to do. odds are BR will win
lets make a HD add on 1st let the suckers buy it. and will just sit back and wait till HD dies out then will make a BR add-on and let them suckers buy that too. we just made 2X the profit.
thats what MS is doing.
and yes I know BD was not free but the cost PS3 and a BD will be way higher then buying a PS3, so I end up saving lot of $$.
people here forget how greedy ms can be.
 when lot of you complained that your running out of space on the 20gig hdd, MS Respond was pay $100 get another 20gig. that was a great classic MS answer.
MS slogan should be "There's a sucker born every minute"

Conjecture does not make anything factual.  This is a conspiracy theorists statement.

Microsoft released the HD-DVD drive as an add-on product.  Not everyone wants to buy the drive, and Microsoft wasn't going to push a format that not every movie studio bought into.  Sony, on the other hand, had a different agenda with Blu-ray.  

Fact:

- Microsoft did *not* develop the HD-DVD technology.  Toshiba did.  Microsoft is a member of the HD-DVD Group.
- Microsoft *did* develop HDi, the programming interface to HD-DVD, and thus *does* have a stake in HD-DVD (to a certain extent.)  I am not sold on Sony ditching BD-Java for HDi, even though HDi is far superior in features and capabilities.

While Microsoft says they are firmly committed to DVD as the disk format for the Xbox 360 games, I disagree with them.  HD-DVD or Blu-ray disks are needed.  Take a look at what happened with Assassin's Creed.  Ubisoft had to cut items out of the game just so it would fit on a DVD9 disk.  Imagine if they had the space of HD-DVD, or even Blu-ray for the Xbox 360.  Heck, Lost Odyssey is coming on *4* DVD's!  4.  Even though I plan on buying LO, I am not looking forward to disk swapping.

Microsoft does position the Xbox 360 as not just a gaming console, but a complete media platform device.  Microsoft had a big challenge.  They did not want to support Blu-ray, as that would only aid in the sales of the PS3.  Imagine if the Xbox 360 had a Blu-ray drive internally.  One could surmise that this would aid the PS3 sales, which would eat into the market share Microsoft has.  That's not a value proposition Microsoft wanted to put themselves into.

You said that Microsoft was not fighting for HD-DVD.  What you do not know is that Microsoft gave studios free equipment, and assistance to setup their HD-DVD render farms.  I cannot say what studios, as that is under NDA with the company I work for.  Do you see Microsoft actively marketing the HD-DVD drive?  Not as much as Sony does for the PS3 and Blu-ray.  We don't know who is at fault with this.  I believe it has to do with Toshiba and the HD-DVD Group.  Look at all of the marketing now with HD-DVD.  Way too late if you ask me.

Sounds like you did buy the HD-DVD drive.  Guess what.  There isn't a standard yet for HD media like there is with DVD.  You purchased a device knowing that HD-DVD could lose this format war.  You would be considered what is called an "early adopter."  That was your choice.  Not Microsoft's.  

BTW, I did purchase the HD-DVD drive add-on.  I love it.  The one piece I don't like about the drive is Microsoft's lack of DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD codec support.  But, then they needed an HDMI port in order for them to support those audio codec's.  Plus, who other than audiophiles have a receiver capable of decoding DTS-HD/Dolby TrueHD?  Not very many.

Oh, and if Microsoft does release either a Blu-ray add-on drive, or a new Xbox 360 model with an internal drive, I will most likely buy it.  You don't have to.  Just like you don't have to buy the HD-DVD drive.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

Sony sacrificed the PS3 to see BR win, they lost lot of $$ and still are, all to see BR win.

 The PS3 (not a year old in Europe yet) ahs not been sacrificed for anything. The move to include Blu ray by Sony expands the machines capabilities. People who say it was simply to drive Blu Ray sales are guessing. Sony have stated they have a long term strategy for the PS3. The games and other features such as Home etc need to be measured and sales looked at when it has had 2 to 3 years on the market. You are taliking as if it is finished as anything but a Blu-Ray player. It certainly is not.
By the way all companies are in anything to make $$$.