Topic: Don't Believe the Low Bit-Rate 'HD' Lie (Read 614 times)

Xbox-Scene · « **on:** January 19, 2008, 11:18:00 PM »

Don't Believe the Low Bit-Rate 'HD' Lie
Posted by XanTium | January 20 00:42 EST | News Category: Xbox360

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Quote

As I've tried to educate my readers last year with my blog "Why HD movie downloads are a big lie", these so-called HD movies [from on-demand download services] use very low bit-rates compared to even standard definition DVDs let alone something like HD DVD or Blu-ray. Raw uncompressed 1080p video at 60 frames per second is about 3000 mbps so even HD DVD's 28 mbps needs to be compressed about 107 to 1 with the H.264 or VC-1 codec. By all reasonable standards this needs to be the minimum bit-rate for acceptable loss in quality on 1080p video.

Standard definition 480i DVD movies are typically 5 to 8 mbps (megabits per second) MPEG-2 whereas these so-called HD wannabes weigh in at a pathetic 1.5 to 4 mbps of 720p H.264. Apple's new HD service is capable of 4 mbps which simply isn't enough to be considered HD. XBOX360 downloads are 6.8 mbps 720p VC-1 so they're semi-decent borderline HD. Marketing will push the nicer sounding "720p" aspect of the video but they don't tell you it's way too compressed to offer good video fidelity. Blu-ray has a maximum bit-rate of 40 mbps while HD DVD offers a maximum of 28 mbps. Over the air broadcasts can be up to 19.38 mbps.

Full Story: blogs.zdnet.com

prplehz · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:02:00 AM »

First post, woot! What ever happend to the days when a movie was just a movie, lmao!

SuperStition · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:43:00 AM »

I'm just gonna go with DivX.

Skitals · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:13:00 AM »

QUOTE(prplehz @ Jan 20 2008, 07:02 AM)

First post, woot! What ever happend to the days when a movie was just a movie, lmao!

QUOTE(SuperStition @ Jan 20 2008, 07:43 AM)

I'm just gonna go with DivX.

It is because of people with these kind of mentalities that cable companies and services like iTunes and XBL can get away with this! Why should you care? Because you are paying MORE money for an "HD" version. If you don't care about quality, stick to SD... and your DivX.

Damnit I'm feeling old. Member here since 2002, member # 1184

ThaCrip · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2008, 12:28:00 AM »

DivX (mainly XviD) is good for standard def stuff as it's the video format i prefer in general.... but if you want good quality for high def i think x264 format is pretty good as theres NO WAY they could say these are crappy even though there only around 5000kbps (the 4.7GB ones)

basically to sum it up... XviD (.avi) is to DVD as x264 (.mkv) is to hddvd/blu-ray

... only side effect with x264 is most people cant play 1080p on there pc as it generally requires a dual core CPU to play good (basically x264 is a CPU hog but it's quality is quite good

)... although 720p alot of semi recent pc's should be able to play fine. i can play 720p video in x264 format fine on my pc (AMD Athlon 3500+ CPU (2.2ghz but i overclocked it to 2409mhz)) which takes roughly 50percent CPU usage when playing on The KMPlayer.

Odb718 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:24:00 AM »

28 mbps * 60 * 90 mins = 151,200 mbps
I don't think people would wait around to download that... or would they...

sgr215 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:27:00 AM »

QUOTE(prplehz @ Jan 20 2008, 02:02 AM)

First post, woot! What ever happend to the days when a movie was just a movie, lmao!

It becomes a major issue when you've got a big TV. Standard definition is pretty bad when you start blowing it up massively. Check out SD on even a 42inch TV and you'll understand why its a big issue.

While I may agree with the article your average consumer won't notice much of a difference, if at all, as long as their TV isn't 60+ inches. However, once you start blowing things up massively you can easily tell the difference between a blu-ray disk and a 720P Xbox Live video. Projectors are becoming cheaper and soon anyone who wants a massive 1080P home theater can have it for about the cost of your average PC. When this happens people will start appreciating blu-ray and HD-DVD a lot more and these online services will either be forced to adjust to the times or loose massive amounts of customers in the process.

Unfortunately we're seeing ISP's placing ridiculous caps on connections so it'll be hard for online services to even find demand for high bandwidth videos unless things change drastically. For example, Comcast's cap is around 250GB a month in some areas. A complete blu-ray download could be as much as 50GB. Not only would ISP's have to adjust the download caps massively, they would also have to increase speeds too. With that comes astronomical upgrade costs and like the article states, Docsis 3.0 most likely won't be able to handle this even. It'll be interesting to see how things play out in the future.

On a side note, It's times like this I'm happy I've got FiOS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by sgr215: Jan 20 2008, 09:30 AM

21cwSpanky · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:44:00 AM »

I think the real point of this article is to debunk the whole "Digital downloads are the future" bandwagon. It's quite the opposite, Optical media is lightyears ahead of our current ISP infrastructure capabilities.

prplehz · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:13:00 AM »

QUOTE(Skitals @ Jan 19 2008, 11:49 PM)

It is because of people with these kind of mentalities that cable companies and services like iTunes and XBL can get away with this! Why should you care? Because you are paying MORE money for an "HD" version. If you don't care about quality, stick to SD... and your DivX.

Damnit I'm feeling old. Member here since 2002, member # 1184

Whoa! Don't get me wrong I love high quality! I have Pioneer 50" plasma with all the goodies and I am a stickler for a good picture. I just miss the good ole days, Thats all.. However I don't miss the picture quality of the good ole days that is for sure. I must say this looks like a win for Blu ray though since it has higher bandwidth than HD-DVD. Maybe it really is better? Or is it?

ThaCrip · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:21:00 AM »

QUOTE(Odb718 @ Jan 20 2008, 03:24 AM)

28 mbps * 60 * 90 mins = 151,200 mbps
I don't think people would wait around to download that... or would they...

thats what x264 (.mkv) is for like i said above

.. probably close to blu-ray/hd-dvd quality at a fraction the size

(although i never seen these on a TV so i cant say for sure but from what i hear it's gotta be pretty close to original blu-ray/hddvd source.

get your HD quality at a much smaller file size... only side effect is you need a pretty powerful CPU to play them especially 1080p... but generally speaking 720p is good enough for most people (including me)

hybrid213 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:59:00 AM »

This guy is just a hater, the 360 movies look great on my 42" hdtv.

Norco · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:24:00 AM »

QUOTE(Skitals @ Jan 20 2008, 08:49 AM)

It is because of people with these kind of mentalities that cable companies and services like iTunes and XBL can get away with this! Why should you care? Because you are paying MORE money for an "HD" version. If you don't care about quality, stick to SD... and your DivX.

Damnit I'm feeling old. Member here since 2002, member # 1184

You think you feel old? Ha, i've got you beat!

21cwSpanky · « **Reply #12 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:44:00 AM »

QUOTE(Odb718 @ Jan 20 2008, 09:24 AM)

28 mbps * 60 * 90 mins = 151,200 mbps
I don't think people would wait around to download that... or would they...

You forgot to divide by 8

So 151,200/8 = 18.9 gigs. Average download rate on a fios connection or really anything 8 mbit or more is about 1 mb/s.

So you're looking at 18,900 mbytes / 60 (average 60 megs per minute). You end up with about 5 1/2 hours to download. So you leave it on overnight, and you get a full HD movie? What's the big deal with that?

Now if you're using all 30 mbits of your fios connection. You can obtain a theoretical max download rate of 3.75 mb/s. Which would only take an hour and a half to download a 90 minute movie.

slowass · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2008, 01:46:00 AM »

QUOTE(prplehz @ Jan 20 2008, 08:02 AM)

First post, woot! What ever happend to the days when a movie was just a movie, lmao!

Thats exactly my point. A good drama doesnt need 720p so that you can see the textures on the carpets, nor every hair on a granny chin

Hi-Def is mostly prefered for hollywood action/sci-fi aka Marvel which can be fun to watch when you want braindead action with a crappy script and bad plot.

eduardor2k · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:33:00 AM »

Hi to everyone.

Raise your hand all of you that have downloaded an x264 movie, that fits 1 dvd, it's 720p and looks and sounds amazing on your TV.

Mpeg video codec is a lot less efficient than H264, that's why at same bitrate you get higher quality picture.
3000 kbps is more than enough for a 720p picture on a standar 720p TV, if you have a 50" TV you can afford to buy or pay the extra price for the movie.

PS: If you like High Bitrate movies, stick with hd-dvd and blu-ray.

Author Topic: Don't Believe the Low Bit-Rate 'HD' Lie (Read 614 times)