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[Chancer]

QUOTE(ekruob @ Jan 13 2008, 02:25 PM)

Copper currently gives up to 24Mbps (ADSL2+), however recently discovered noise-reduction algorithms will increase this to about 200Mbps within 3 years.  There is no need for any infrastructure upgrade from the exchanges to people's houses at all - the existing copper network is just fine.

This will allow 1080p video to be streamed no problem at all :-)

Do you realise what the state of the lines are in this country? I doubt it.
Why do you suppose that most of the Uk can not attain even the theoretical maximum speeds quoted for ADSL?  Most people can't even attain 10meg because of geographical location from the nearest exchange. What does this tell you about the state of the BT lines?
 A few links for you
http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/7098992.stm
From the article
Currently in the UK the big issue is the gap between advertised and actual speeds, so while 10Mbps might be available from a few suppliers, very few actually get this speed. According to speedtest.net - a global speed test created by actual users and approved by most of the major ISPs in the US - the real speed is closer to 3Mbps.

Things get faster next year as ADSL2+ comes online promising speeds of up to 24Mbps, although as with all DSL technology, there are physical limits and only those close to the exchange will actually get the top speeds.
What do you suppose the Physical Limits means?
http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/7003113.stm

 Check your actual maximum speed
http://www.productsa...mp;vendorid=SE9
I checked 10 random postcodes. 6.6meg was the highest result.

[thor99]

QUOTE

One key Blu-ray developer told BetaNews that although he builds discs for studios including Fox and Lionsgate, he did not buy a Blu-ray player for personal use." Regarding current Blu-ray player owners, Blu-ray developers told BetaNews, "They knew what they were getting into.

http://consumerist.c...ay-future-discs


Priceless... Ya Right.. Im sure They Knew, Thats Why They Bought It. Thats A great way to respond to the ill information to the customer.. I Can Hear It Now At The Store Or On All The Signs Sony Had Posted" You Do Know That You Will Have Problems With Near Upcoming Releases", Ya but heres $400, I Dont Care. Give It To Me Anyway...

[Chancer]

QUOTE(thor99 @ Jan 13 2008, 08:07 PM)

This Could Also Help HD-DVD Win, If Sony Keeps Droping the ball...

Current Blu-ray players to have problems with future disk...
http://consumerist.c...ay-future-discs
Priceless... Ya Right.. Im sure They Knew, Thats Why They Bought It. Thats A great way to respond to the ill information to the customer.. I Can Hear It Now At The Store Or On All The Signs Sony Had Posted" You Do Know That You Will Have Problems With Near Upcoming Releases", Ya but heres $400, I Dont Care. Give It To Me Anyway...

The discs will still play even on current V1 players. It is only access to some on line content and such that will not be available to people with earlier standard players.
That is always the risk with being first in.
 Same as the risk in buying either format early on.

[Chancer]

QUOTE

3. My actual point is that new technology invented by my close school friend means that the same copper lines can now run more than ten times faster than ADSL2+! So your neighbours with 3Mbps ADSL1 currently will be able to enjoy ADSL3 at well over 50Mbps without any question at all.

 Then why are BT starting the Fibre To Home 1.5billion upgrade in order to increase speed?

QUOTE

Copper currently gives up to 24Mbps (ADSL2+), however recently discovered noise-reduction algorithms will increase this to about 200Mbps within 3 years

QUOTE

So your neighbours with 3Mbps ADSL1 currently will be able to enjoy ADSL3 at well over 50Mbps without any question at all.

I did read what you wrote. re read it. Your figures are all over the place.

QUOTE

You are correct that 3Mbps may be the current realistic bandwidth for most people on ADSL - and that for ADSL2+ this will likely increase to perhaps 6Mbps. I actually agreed with this if you read what I wrote.

Where?? I don't see this mentioned in your post at all.

QUOTE

So your neighbours with 3Mbps ADSL1 currently will be able to enjoy ADSL3 at well over 50Mbps without any question at all.

If the lines can't support the speed now. Why do you think that is?
 The government are even considering a grant towards the cost of replacement lines.
 Why would they do this if nothing is wrong with the lines?
The lines in most areas are very old and have deteriorated . We are not talking brand new coper lines here. These copper lines that are fine for up to 24MB would be providing the  full speed capability of ADSL now if they were fine. This is not the case.

QUOTE

I never said current ADSL services, or even ADSL2+ (24Mbps max), would deliver streaming video! You seem to be implying that I did?

 Not anywhere did I discuss the minimum speed needed to stream 1080P. I have no doubt 200Mbps would easily stream video. The whole point I made was we will not be getting those high speeds here without an infrastructure upgrade.

QUOTE

Actually Profile 1.0 players, i.e. most of the current stand-alone models, will not play Profile 1.1 specific content (extra features / bonus content) - there are warning stickers on discs to this affect.

It is Profile 2.0 that brings in BD-Live (online) access - that is the very least of the problems!

Ermm yes I am aware of that and never stated any different. I was making the point that the discs will still play. Either upgraded profile will not prevent playback of the movie title. It is well known the V1.0 profile players do not support the PIP feature or extra content. the profile 2.0 is not supported because the profile 1 players don't have network capability to connect to the internet.
So you are misinterpreting the point I was getting at again.
I stated quite clearly the point. In response to a post giving the impression the profile 1 players would not work with later profile discs. Not correct.

QUOTE

The discs will still play even on current V1 players. It is only access to some on line content and such that will not be available to people with earlier standard players.

 Do you have a link to some technical information to back this up (ADSL3)? I remember it being touted in 2003 but heard nothing since. I mean let's face it they need to get ADSL2 working at full speed first. Is it Exetel you good friend owns? They seemed to push this then disappear.

[Chancer]

I don't really follow your Quick ship Jumping theory at all.
the cost of the HD-DVD at $130 could you say where you can get them at that. I will import one at that money.
The laser costs for Blu-ray players dropped dramatically last year. so production costs are dropping all the time.
As for consumers not buying something because of it's name, I can't go for that. Fact is you can reduce a player to $50 but if there are no films for it who will buy it.
 The studios will have the biggest say in this.
 Oh and the real reason Beta lost to VHS is very simple. the major film rental chains which were big business at the time all dropped down on the side of VHS and the films available for Beta were never there in big enough numbers
 Please tell me what "quick Ship Jumping" means in relation to anything

[ekruob]

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

Then why are BT starting the Fibre To Home 1.5billion upgrade in order to increase speed?

Quite simply: because the new 'cool' algorithms that allow for up to 200Mbps on copper have only recently been published!
BT obviously would not have known anything about this - especially when they were planning their Fibre-to-Home network or they may have scrapped the whole thing as being a waste of money!

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

I did read what you wrote. re read it. Your figures are all over the place.

Which figures specifically do you believe are all over the place?

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

If the lines can't support the speed now. Why do you think that is?

Interference between every other ADSL connection in your street/suburb!
Exactly the same as cross-talk used to interfere with voice calls in the early days.

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

 The government are even considering a grant towards the cost of replacement lines.
 Why would they do this if nothing is wrong with the lines?

Same reason BT chose fibre - no-one knew about the new discovery my friend made until last year!
A great deal of line-speed is related to interference with other lines in the area - e.g. if you got the same line and took it away to a lab you would find way higher speeds are possible on it!

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

The lines in most areas are very old and have deteriorated . We are not talking brand new coper lines here. These copper lines that are fine for up to 24MB would be providing the  full speed capability of ADSL now if they were fine. This is not the case.

Now I am dead certain you have not been following my logic at all!
Theoretical (ADSL2+) now = 24mbps
Practical 9ADSL2+) now = 6mbps

Theoretical in 3 years = 200mbps
Practical in 3 years = 50mbps

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

 Not anywhere did I discuss the minimum speed needed to stream 1080P. I have no doubt 200Mbps would easily stream video.

I did though.  20mbps is enough bandwidth to stream 1080p.

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 09:07 PM)

 The whole point I made was we will not be getting those high speeds here without an infrastructure upgrade.

And I still beg to differ.

[Chancer]

Link to your proof please or will you have to kill me if you reveal it.
 I have supplied links with info on the cabling infrastructure in this country. You keep quoting your friend.

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(HowardC @ Jan 14 2008, 07:21 AM)

...due to the fact that blueray uses a blue laser, and the technology to produce blue lasers is still quite new, that price isn't going to go down anytime soon...

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't HDDVD also use a blue laser?

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 14 2008, 08:03 AM)

As for consumers not buying something because of it's name, I can't go for that. Fact is you can reduce a player to $50 but if there are no films for it who will buy it.
 The studios will have the biggest say in this.

I think you are giving the general consumer, of which are uneducated on the subject, too much credit.  First, the HD-DVD name is much more familiar then Blu-ray for movies.  The general consumer knows what DVD is, and they want their movies to be in HD, to go along with their new HDTV, so HD-DVD makes sense to them.  And they will just assume that the movies they want will be on HD-DVD, and buy a HD-DVD receiver none the wiser.  If the consumer has any say in which format will win, then the victor is far from decided.  But it doesn't look like the consumer will be the ones deciding the outcome.

[Chancer]

This is getting boring so I won't post any more on this after this post.
Research into possibilities for the maximum bandwith of copper cables and a reference paper on what is possible through copper does not confirm that the BT existing lines are capable of this. It also does not confirm the condition of the existing lines and their viability for this sort of project.
 No doubt the friend of yours has some very interesting research. I have read through the links thoroughly.  None of this has been proved viable on existing  poor quality UK cabling. Where is the indication that BT could use this via their existing network?

[mc_365]

QUOTE(ekruob @ Jan 19 2008, 01:42 AM)

Physical limits limit each technology to a maximum speed, definitely - but that is not the same maximum speed for all types of ADSL!  I cannot fathom whatever gave you that idea?

He got you on that one.

I mean copper has a physical characteristic that make theoretically possible to achieve much higher speed than what is presently attainable.

If there was a technology that could perform efficiently enough to reach that physical maximum than it would work on all copper regardless to where and how old it is, as long as it was copper; theoretically.