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[trey85stang]

even better news,  I see a ps blueray player in my future.

[m00nstone]

It doesn't pay to be an early adopter.  Even worse is performance of early gen players.  Evidence:

1) I was checking out Blu ray players on demo at my local Best Buy.  I had a short nap waiting for menus and chapters to load.
 
2) People I know that bought DVD players in the early days have already forgotten the day they threw them out due to problems (namely issues reading newer movies)

3) never mind whether blu ray will beat hd-dvd.  I'm not convinced either will be the next DVD.

[HotKnife420]

QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 06:06 AM)

It doesn't pay to be an early adopter.  Even worse is performance of early gen players.  Evidence:

1) I was checking out Blu ray players on demo at my local Best Buy.  I had a short nap waiting for menus and chapters to load.
 
2) People I know that bought DVD players in the early days have already forgotten the day they threw them out due to problems (namely issues reading newer movies)

3) never mind whether blu ray will beat hd-dvd.  I'm not convinced either will be the next DVD.

 Well, with the number of studios making BluRay exclusives now, and the increasing installed base of PS3, it *may* be a possibility. If the PS3 reaches anywhere *near* the PS2's installed base (down to $400 now, another price drop prolly by thanksgiving, and so on), then it could stand a chance. Apparently we've been taking it's presence for granted...

[cabose369]

QUOTE(ErikREspo @ Jan 5 2008, 09:48 PM)

You people that are "sticking with HD-DVD" are not thinking and evidently aren't thinking ahead.  You are the same people who think 4.7Gb DVDs are good enough and we don't need more space on the dvd cause the 8Gb dvds are too expensive.  The only reason is it "more Expensive" is because you choose not to adopt it.  

I strongly disagree with that statement. Why spend $60 for 25 DVD+DL when I can buy 100 DVD's for $20? I can split my data, hell split whole movies and put them on 2 discs and still come to 1/100th of the cost of 1 DVD+DL disc.  No one wants to spend more than they need to. DL discs aren't more expensive because consumers don't choose to adopt it... It's called consumers who are smart with their money, not consumers who want to waste their money like they have endless pockets of money. DL has been out for what, 3 maybe 4 years, maybe longer. Still the average consumer doesn't want it cause its not of benefit to them. By your same reasoning then everyone should still be using CD's for their DATA LOL! And according to your argument no one should have a High-Def TV cause they are more expensive than a Tube TV LOL!! Nice argument there....

Anyway I have to ring in on this whole thing. Need we recall Sony's poor history of products. For YEARS Betamax was farrr ahead of VHS and lone and behold VHS surpassed it and now where do you see Betamax? Sony is up to their dirty tricks again to try to persuade the general public. The post made by PirateElf was probably one of the most thought out, intelligent posts i've seen in all these topics over the last few days. Not everyone that bought a PS3 is going to use it as a Blu-Ray player. So you can't include that in the statistics of sales. Sony thinks they can buy out all the companies and don't get me wrong Toshiba has done the same.

Whoever made the comment that the average consumer doesn't understand the differences between the HD DVD and Blu-Ray player is 100% correct.  They offer the EXACT same image quality. HD DVD is region free, an amazing feature, they are a million times faster then the blu-ray player, they don't suffer from poorly written firmware/software. Really NO DVD needs all the space that Blu-Ray offers. Betamax offered more storage than VHS but ended up losing.  VHS was cheaper and the average consumer did not need Betamax.

It may seem like Toshiba is about to be knocked out but don't count them out. They may battle back.

Also consider the fact that if HD DVD does go down then Sony will jack the prices of EVERYTHING Blu-Ray to make up for the losses they took on the PS3 and their players. Then the consumer will sadly be at the mercy of the evil empire called Sony. And you DON'T want to be at the mercy of Sony. As much as everyone knocks M$ i would rather be at the mercy of M$ then Sony. Fact is Sony overcharges EVERYONE of their products. From TV's to Camera's to Computers everything is too expensive. When there is no competition up goes the price. Why.. cause they can and cause Sony DESPERATELY needs the money. If the PS3 fails bye bye Sony. If Blu-Ray fails bye bye Sony. Sony took such huge losses in 2006/2007 that it hurt them really badly. Their products are constantly getting surpassed by much better products at a much better price: ex. Samsung TV's, Canon Cameras, and any computer company is better than Sony except Acer. M$ played it smart by NOT including an HD DVD drive in their console and I don't think they ever planned on it either. If Blu-Ray flops whats gonna happen to the PS3? Is Sony gonna release their games in normal DVD? LOL! Sony will charge even MORE for games cause it will cost even more to produce for Blu-Ray (contrary to what Sony leads the consumer to believe it does cost them more to produce blu-ray discs than an HD DVD or normal DVD disc.). Xbox 360 is safe and then in their next console if they want they can stick in an HD DVD drive. Could you imagine if the PS1 ran on Mini Discs or UMD's? Would that have affected the war at the time? Hardly.

I am not a fan boy for either side because frankly I don't care. I don't have an HDTV and I got my normal DVD player and it works wonders on an SDTV. I just hate to see everyone get so gung-ho over something that is just a good punch to HD DVD's face. People who say "the war is over" are very naive.

[Elemino]

QUOTE(DeMoN_DARREN @ Jan 5 2008, 08:37 PM)

Well if Blu-Ray becomes the standard.... what are MS gonna do for the next gen console?  Go Blu-Ray?!  Got no problem with the blu, but how will this work with current Sony/MS relations?

Pretty much like all the other Sony/MS relations. Did you forget they both deal with things other than video game consoles? The two companies have been doing business together many years before xbox was even heard of.

BTW... RIP HD DVD. I seriously thought it was the way to go... but as all good men do in the interest of the people... I conceed. HD DVD is by far the best of the two... the only 1 up Bluray initially had was capacity.

QUOTE(hecz @ Jan 5 2008, 06:31 PM)

Im  happy with my dvdplayer  

You OBVIOUSLY don't have an HD TV. If you do, it must be tiny or cheap.

[m00nstone]

QUOTE(HotKnife420 @ Jan 6 2008, 06:39 AM)

Well, with the number of studios making BluRay exclusives now, and the increasing installed base of PS3, it *may* be a possibility. If the PS3 reaches anywhere *near* the PS2's installed base (down to $400 now, another price drop prolly by thanksgiving, and so on), then it could stand a chance. Apparently we've been taking it's presence for granted...

Ok, you touched a sore spot here.  Why would anyone want their game console's optical drive to double as a video player.  Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage.  Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?

And like most people, I watch alot of movies... but I want my video game system to last.  

Don't even get me started on this crap where people want them to bundle hd-dvd in their 360s.  People have no brains.

[trey85stang]

QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 07:07 AM)

Ok, you touched a sore spot here.  Why would anyone want their game console's optical drive to double as a video player.  Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage.  Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?

And like most people, I watch alot of movies... but I want my video game system to last.  

Don't even get me started on this crap where people want them to bundle hd-dvd in their 360s.  People have no brains.

Playing a video game is more taxing on an optical drive then watching a movie.

[Devedander]

For everyone who wonders why people would prefer blu ray over HD DVD, despite HD DVD being the "better format" think about this:

How many of you own a digital camera?

How many of you think the megapixel rating is the number 1 thing to consider in getting good pictures out of a camera?

How many of you paid more for a camera becuase the sales person said "for only $XX you can have almost twice as many megapixels which is better resolution and therefore better pictures"?

Here's something to consider... more pixels on a sensor can be very detrimental for picture quality.

The explanations are complex, but basically more pixels on a sensor of the same size means that each pixel gets less light.  Since pictures are recordings of light, less of it can result in lower quality results and more image noise.

In short the same camera which now has more MP is quite possibly going to give you WORSE quality pictures.

Now... think about that and think about people in a store listening to a salesman tell them how BR has more space so can hold a better image...

Not so hard to see how BR sells now is it?

[saltfish]

Quite honestly I think both formats may end up losing, hell you can stream movies from Nexflix to your computer, and soon to your tv, and download them in 720 from Xbox Live, if you ask me, and im sure you wont, I only watch a movie once, why bother having a disc lying around taking up space, If I could just download them, watch and delete then hell why not.  As soon as someone prefect a great HD download business model that works, then Bluray, as well as HD-DVD could both be pushed aside.

Just my 2 cents

[Devedander]

QUOTE(m00nstone @ Jan 6 2008, 07:07 AM)

Every optical drive has a limited lifespan based on usage.  Why would I want to waste that on movie watching?

How many consumers do you think ever consider that factor or even comprehend it?

The reality is many people stop using a console before it stops functioning so have no thought about failing parts and more yet don't consider causes that factor into a failure or try to understand them... they simply realize their item is broken and needs to be replaced.

For something like laser failure, which usually takes quite a while, Joe Consumer is most likely to simply think "Crap... well that's how long that lasted" and leave it at that... not really try to figure out why and apply it to future purposes.

In fact I would wager most people think of different systems as entirely different entities, not drawing the connection to similar parts.  Even  if they vaguley realized their PS2 stopped working because the laser died, they probably don't think about it when buying a PS3 beause it's not a PS2 and in their minds the reason their PS2 broke is becuase a "PS2 Laser" died... what does that have to do with a PS3?  After all that's a whole different item.  We know... they probably don't bother to consider...

[sayguh]

I agree with everyone who made the crucial point.....the average consumer is a dumb retard who understands absolutely nothing about anything and rather ask the 16 year old kid at best buy about the differences between blu-ray and HD DVD than spend 20 fucking min. doing his own damn research on the internet.  I hate the fact my mom had to call me while I was in class in college to ask how to turn on the TV!!!!!!  And anyone else just have to wear blinders?  Or shield their eyes when they see that damn "Fire Dog" crew at Circuit city and "Geek Squad" at Best Buy??  "Oh no I don't know how to plug in an HDMI cable, someone call firedog!"  But yes yes, i mean HDMI, Component, Composite, RGB, DVI, it's all very confusing, i mean it's not like a 3 year old knows that the square block goes in the square hole, or that the red tube fits with the red hole?  How in the world could adults figure out such difficult concepts?  

*sigh* Sorry, I just had a lovely conversation with a salesmen at best buy who told me "You know the amplifier is good not by the Watts, but by how heavy it is.  Feel this one, its heavy, that's what does the amplifying"......To which I of course said something to the likes of  "You sure it's not a transistor that does the amplifying?  You know, like a BJT?  Or a Mosfet?  I mean, I've only spent a few years in college studying this stuff, and your a highly trained employee of bestbuy.  (I'm EE in communications but still, we do 2 years basic EE).  I'm pretty sure the weight comes from the transformer which is essentially two coils of wire with an iron core for flux to pass through, and not from the ultra light solid state transistors which actually do all the amplification buuuuut what do I know?"  

UGH, anyway......I'd have prefered HD-DVD win despite it's smaller capacity size.  Mainly b/c I wanted to see sony sink and drown for it's dumb move of bundling the unsure technology with it's next-gen console.  Granted this might have been the wisest move in hind-sight.  But what ever.  Sorry for the rant, hope you enjoyed.

[the_nerdy]

QUOTE(794 @ Jan 5 2008, 04:23 PM)

i am more interested in the response from MS and Toshiba...any day now...

all this news is most frustrating to those that have already invested in the HD DVD technology, not that those players and movies won't continue to work and look beautiful, but the media choices may continue to become fewer and fewer if studios keep switching...
also, i find it most interesting that most who bash or fanboy either format (esp on these forums) still don't own either format yet...

MS will come around to say HD DVD still has hope as they will push it.  Digital Content will become popular but never replace the rental / buying experince.  So that is why Blueray,  HD DVD does what we need it to do, (for today)  But we must think of tommorow which is what the studios have done.  

The foreign market in china makes no play into this role as it is all legally pirated formates.  And since both are being sold 1:1.

If USA goes 100% Blueray, and china goes HD DVD,  it isn't going to bring back HD DVD in the USA  or should I say, Northern America.    

The good news about this is,

HD DVD players are going to become incredibly cheap now like everyone wanted LOL HAHAHAHAHHA

[a94cobra]

I agree the war is far from over.  Toshiba isn't just gonna pack up and go home.  With the cheaper player out there, and many stores are gearing up for 08 with cheap HD DVD units, it will prolong the death of either one.  

Then there is the dumb consumer, which a couple people have pointed out in earlier threads.  People in general are just now starting to buy HDTV's.  Not because they want Hi-Def, but because they think digital tv means Hi-Def.  I swear I have to explain the difference about once a day to someone.  And I don't work in the electronics business in any shape or form.  Some people I talk to don't even know there are two formats.  Most people don't know that Blu means it a blue laser instead of red.  None of them know there is a disc capacity difference.  They don't know why they need a new format.  The average consumer is so dumb they aren't even gonna know there was an announcement!  They won't know what not to buy until it isn't even for sale in the store any longer.

Also, Warner stated that they will continue to produce HD DVD until May.  So I see that statement as something close to "let's tilt the tables and see if HD DVD really goes away fast."  I mean everyone has been waiting for WB to make a choice.  It gives them time to see if the playing field leans one direction or not.  

What if early this year, Toshiba or other makers(like the ones Wal-Mart is supposed to get), drop a $89 price bomb.   Whether it be intentional or because they are just trying to clear stock.  And HD-DVD goes on a selling spree, either because people are buying so they will have something to watch on the player they have already invested in or whether it be because they are getting cleared out.  And because of that WB sells HD DVD's 3-1 or more over BD.  You think they wouldn't prolong the HD DVD sales past May?  They would be dumb not to sell all they can.  Prolong the format a while longer, especially if they think the BD will eventually win.  You will be forced later down the road to buy the movie again on BD.  Double the money for them.

So many scenarios, it just isn't done yet.  People buy what is cheap.  Not what is better.  If Toshiba can get there first and sustain the initial beatings then they may yet have a chance.

Now that I have ranted.  I wasn't gonna buy a player from either camp till the prices came down and movie selection increased dramatically.  But with $99 player from Wal-mart and free movies to go with.  I jumped on the HD DVD side.  And the fact I don't like $ony.  Mainly because of cheaply made products, not because they didn't have good innovations from time to time.  I orginally figured a combo player would be a better choice.

I havn't experienced the slow loads on the BD, because I don't have one, and the incompatibility of newer movies with firmware of an unfinished product.  But I gotta ask, how has this product been chosen over anything else?  If it's as bad as people complain, how do these products get out the door?

[Chancer]

Once again a thread full of people not judging the technology v technology but picking sides based on  hatred of one company.  Som epeople blindly supporting a product they don't own or use regularly. Do you boycott shops and stuff if your hated ex-girlfriend shops at them?
It's a good job half of you don't know some of the stunts Toshiba have pulled.
Oh and once again. Do you seriously think that other manufacturers for BR players are going to sit and watch a $100 HD-DVD player released without response?

[Elemino]

QUOTE(sayguh @ Jan 6 2008, 02:04 AM)

"Oh no I don't know how to plug in an HDMI cable, someone call firedog!"  But yes yes, i mean HDMI, Component, Composite, RGB, DVI, it's all very confusing, i mean it's not like a 3 year old knows that the square block goes in the square hole, or that the red tube fits with the red hole?  How in the world could adults figure out such difficult concepts?


Feel this one, its heavy, that's what does the amplifying"......To which I of course said something to the likes of  "You sure it's not a transistor that does the amplifying?

As a Circuit City employee I resent some of those remarks. And as the number 1 salesman in my store, I can tell you there are a LOT of people who don't get HDMI... no matter how you explain it to them. They still leave wondering how come they can't just use the old connections they used on their old (non-HD, non-digital) tv set. Last week I had a lady come in and ask me how in the world does she get her tv to show channels. She "connected the hdmi and set the tv to autoprogram." Then after I explained to her on her Sharp TV she needed to put it on input 3, she took another 5 minutes to make sure she had that info right. She must have repeated, "so I put the tv on input 3 and just turn on the cable box?" at least 10 times. Also, you need to take into account that not everyone has their entire setup on a small tv stand and just need to connect a couple of wires. Some of our installs are small media rooms with the tv on the wall, or a projector, plus speakers mounted with the wires ran through the walls.

BTW... The guy at Best Buy was sorta right. Sounds like he's been talking to someone who know's the stuff, but he can't quite repeat what he was told. Anyone who seriously knows electronics knows your amplifer is only as good as your power supply. In home audio, the number one telling factor of how good your power supply is, is the the size of the internal transformer. Meaning heavier receivers will produce more power... of course the guy at Best Buy probably on heard the heavier part. And I'm only a Circuit City employee, so what do I know this stuff? Cuz I just completed my degree in electronics. But don't let that fool you, I've been studying electronics since 1998. Even built my own amp once from transistors, capacitors, resistors, and used a diode bridge for rectification.

QUOTE(Chancer @ Jan 6 2008, 11:06 AM)

Once again a thread full of people not judging the technology v technology but picking sides based on  hatred of one company.  Som epeople blindly supporting a product they don't own or use regularly. Do you boycott shops and stuff if your hated ex-girlfriend shops at them?
It's a good job half of you don't know some of the stunts Toshiba have pulled.
Oh and once again. Do you seriously think that other manufacturers for BR players are going to sit and watch a $100 HD-DVD player released without response?

I know the two technologies pretty well. Bluray is more expensive, that's why the players cost more and a lot of the feature that are standard on HD DVD are optional on Bluray. The bottom line for Toshiba is get more people on board or get ready to close up shop. In my store we have at least 10 player models made by 5 companies (including two hybrids) that play bluray, and only 4 players (including two hybrids) that play HD DVD. Forget the A2 and A20, they've been discontinued. The A3 and A30 account for two of the players. Why is Toshiba the only company making HD DVD? Has anyone in here forgot what happened to Apple when IBM introduced the PC and everyone else started building it?

BTW... what stunts have they pulled? I'd be interested in knowing that. (seriously, not being sarcastic)