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[zeppy218]

this class action lawsuit is a joke, i honestly think that they have the right to make the thing never turn on again, u broke the ToS and the majority of us are pirates so im really thankful my console still turns on and i don't have a letter in the mail suing my ass for millions.

[TheRealPeppers]

it is true that they are in fact in there rights to ban your console from there network for any reason (including by accident) at all as long as they refund the remainder of the service costs, there timing was intentional but not illegal.  Although disabling features not related to the network service is not necessarily covered MS'es response did not address this issue.

and also Dose the TOS include the ability to gather information from your console without permission? they would not have been able to ban anyone unless they took identifying information from the consoles.

This post has been edited by TheRealPeppers: Nov 21 2009, 03:23 AM

[PowerdogX]

I'm all against piracy but reguardless of what microsoft says, backing up your software is 100% legal and not being able to play this backed up software on your unmodified xbox is illegal. People should not have to modify the xbox's firmware to play their game backups and if anyone says that backing up a $60.00 investment is crazy then let them pay for the game again if it breaks.

One way to solve this problem is if someone's original disc breaks reguardless if it is their fault or not then the developers of the game should be willing to replace it for only the cost of the disc. If the game developers refuse to help their customers out then they should not be suprised when they trun to piracy. When people pay $60.00 for a game, there not paying for the disc but for the information on the disc so when the disc gets damaged the game developers should be willing to replace it. Then there trying to phase the discs out and turn to digital downloads but the problem with that is that there is no resell value without the disc so if you don't like the game then your basically out the whole $60.00

This post has been edited by PowerdogX: Nov 21 2009, 03:15 AM

[Ranger72]

QUOTE(Enygma @ Nov 20 2009, 08:39 PM)

Corrupted save games and a gamertag that you can't can't move between a banned and unbanned console. You can no longer play or install games on the hard drive. And if you use a hard drive from an unbanned console on a banned console you risk corrupting save games....

How is that not crippled??

I was able to recover my gamertag and use my games saves just fine on a new console I got after I was banned.

I just don't see what all the fuss is about. At least they didn't disable your console. You can still play your backups on a banned console.

Just buy a new console migrate your profile to it and use your game saves and play all your retail games on Live without fear of a ban. Use your banned console for backups.

I just simply don't understand what all the damn fuss is about.

[tactical]

Another angle for lawsuit could be that MS doesn't have online database to see if a console is banned, so store could check console to see if it's banned and people buying second hand can see if it's banned.  
I think its important for people to know which 360's are banned so people don't get ripped off.

[sgr215]

The fact remains the same, MS may have went about banning users in an unjust way; regardless if those users were in violation of the TOS. Most importantly, they refused to refund the remainder of subscription costs of banned users. Yes, I realize the account wasn't directly banned but the vast majority of people banned don't have multiple 360's. This is something that will most likely come down to a judges opinion of the events; if any suit is ever filed to begin with.

It's likely this is a situation where both parties were involved in questionable activities. Even if the banned users did something in direct violation of the TOS and/or the law it doesn't give MS the right to break the law to enforce their TOS.

Think of it like this; you're driving drunk and get pulled over by the police. Upon giving you the sobriety test and confirming you're DUI they decide to beat you badly for no apparent reason before placing you under arrest. While you may have been doing something illegal, were the police justified in beating you for no apparent reason? Obviously not and they should be held accountable for their actions; just like you should be held accountable for your actions. Obviously this is an extreme example but you get the point. This is a confusing situation which would explain why it's still in the research phase.

This post has been edited by sgr215: Nov 21 2009, 03:26 AM

[celltoolz]

My friends liteon drive went out so i replaced it for him... MS told him it would cost 100$ to fix it, i did it for 20$.  He never even played one burned game and he still got banned.  It's almost like a monopoly for MS.  You can't even get a non MS HD without having to worry about being banned.   If i remember right i read a little while back that they are going to make it (or already have made it) so it has to be an official MS HD or it wouldn't work anymore.  Not sure how true this is but that's what i think is a monopoly.  Basically they're saying if you don't buy our products you can't use are service.. I love it...

Just my 2 Cents.

Cell

[Epaige]

Over at Xbox.com there was a guy that sent his xbox in to get it fixed and microsoft sent him a banned xbox.lol they did unban it. But its still funny.

The worst part is they told him its happened before.
Heres a link. http://forums.xbox.c...6/ShowPost.aspx

[chorizo1]

Mines Crippled:

[tactical]

It's cases like that where MS sent him a banned 360 that the lawyers could use in filing a case against MS. IF even MS gave a banned 360 to costumer , why should people suffer who store bought a banned 360.
It says on ban, nothing you do will change it and we don't have to tell you why it's banned. Don't call us , end of story, live with it.

M.S might have to give to law firm all the cases where MS made a mistake in banning people, and there could be some good info in that. And lawyers could say , on BAN it's telling people to just accept BAN.  Most people are afraid of MS and this is not right.

I hope lawyers are reading these threads, because having MS turn over all the times they banned people and had to reverse it , could make a good case of how banning is getting people who did nothing wrong.  You lawyers have to get all the names of people that MS banned and then reversed it and interview them.

This post has been edited by tactical: Nov 21 2009, 03:43 AM

[tomgreen99200]

QUOTE(Epaige @ Nov 21 2009, 03:27 AM)

Over at Xbox.com there was a guy that sent his xbox in to get it fixed and microsoft sent him a banned xbox.lol they did unban it. But its still funny.

The worst part is they told him its happened before.
Heres a link. http://forums.xbox.c...6/ShowPost.aspx

lol wow thats funny.

One more thing, I don't know why people keep saying making backups of something you own is legal. As far as i know, circumventing copyright protection is illegal according to the DMCA. Yes, thats a real law unlike ToS.

[amak1131]

QUOTE(No_Name @ Nov 20 2009, 06:35 PM)

The Harddrive is NOT!!!!! fucking crippled.

It still functions as it did before a ban.

WRONG! Before a ban, you can plug the drive into any other console and be fine. After a ban, you can't. Before a ban, you could install games etc. After, you can't. The drive IS essentially crippled.

Just because it is in the EULA/TOS doesn't necessarily make it legal. They can put in there "We reserve the right to burn down your home" and can still get reamed in a Courtroom.

[TheRealPeppers]

QUOTE(tactical @ Nov 21 2009, 03:38 AM)

It's cases like that where MS sent him a banned 360 that the lawyers could use in filing a case against MS. IF even MS gave a banned 360 to costumer , why should people suffer who store bought a banned 360.
It says on ban, nothing you do will change it and we don't have to tell you why it's banned. Don't call us , end of story, live with it.

M.S might have to give to law firm all the cases where MS made a mistake in banning people, and there could be some good info in that. And lawyers could say , on BAN it's telling people to just accept BAN.  Most people are afraid of MS and this is not right.

I hope lawyers are reading these threads, because having MS turn over all the times they banned people and had to reverse it , could make a good case of how banning is getting people who did nothing wrong.  You lawyers have to get all the names of people that MS banned and then reversed it and interview them.

Its would be the store selling them liable in that case

according to the TOS MS has the right to ban people by accident or any outer reason regardless whether or not they did anything wrong.

These things are not right but are not illegal there are some actionable aspects of charging people for a service they are not supplying and causing damages to peoples property that it not related to this service.

[d53642]

QUOTE(amak1131 @ Nov 20 2009, 09:34 PM)

But are they allowed to cripple a user's hard drive? That should be the focus of the suit.

The hard drive is acting the same way it did before they allowed installs and people didn't complain about it being crippled when that option wasn't there.  All they did was take the option to install away, it still does the job of saving your games like it did before.

As for those that cry they can't move it from one box to the next, that is to combat people using pirated games on an offline system to get achievements then go to a good one and upload their score.  Simple thing to do is not modify your DVD-Rom and you wouldn't be banned.  You could still do everything the non-banned people are doing today.

[Paperstack.1]

I'm surprised they didn't throw in the usual "We are committed to making the Xbox Live Experience better and better." or a "We've designed the Xbox LIVE service to help create a place where our members can interact and have fun online." comment at the end, like they usually do.