Print

[torne]

QUOTE(billgates666 @ Aug 29 2006, 07:16 PM)

Anyway I wanted to see if you need any help Torne. My name is Bill Gates and  well, you see I was reading this thread somewhere sometime somehow which goes a little something like this:
And I started to think...

Well, you're damned hilarious, I'll give you credit for that. Your forum etiquette leaves a little to be desired though; perhaps you're too used to being surrounded by flunkies who don't mind being abused? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE

Those intelligent enough to decrypt such I am sure will tie me up to more conspiracies such as the NSAKEY in CRYPT32/ADVAPI32 DLLs but who knows DARPA did invent the internet didn't it Or was that I

Hardly decryption, and those of us who've read the source for crypt32 and advapi32 know that the NSAKEY debacle was entirely rubbish and there's no conspiracy there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE

All NT AUTHORITY or anyone else for that matter would have to do is get a $100,000 or so and PAY people like Torne and other professionals who have had the privilege of seeing full Windows Source to BREACH their NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS and BUILD XBOX FOR WINDOWS.

They'd have to pay someone else, since I have standards to uphold. I hold a number of companies' intellectual property in my mind by this point and am not going to ruin things by spilling the beans for something as petty as money.

QUOTE

It most certianly would NOT be completely impossible to write a DEFAULT.XBE that functions as a simulacrum of a PC real-mode BIOS and THIS IS THE ONLY WAY ANYONE WILL GET WINDOWS ON THE XBOX PERIOD; one smart cookie (or team of you lot on this forum) simply need to get together and write this executable to simulate a PC BIOS to the degree "That would get you quite far with booting NT.."

Oh, it's certainly not the only way; if you read my later posts I go into more detail about the NTLDR replacement approach which is entirely viable. It doesn't require modifying NTLDR but rather reimplementing an equivalent, which is actually not that difficult if you understand the couplings between NTLDR and the kernel. (my colleague and I did it for the Xen port of Windows XP: a userspace utility in Xen's Linux-based Dom0 loaded the kernel and other things that NTLDR would load into a newly created Xen domain's address space, and set up memory in the fashion that NTLDR would, including the results of the fake hardware probing).

QUOTE

Windows and it's CLEAN (non-hacked-up-proper-NTLDR-out-of-box) is what is released to manufacture: logic thus tells us that if a PC BIOS simulacrum DEFAULT.XBE can "trick" NTLDR into thinking it is running on a PC and receive the correct responses to enumerate hardware and create the registry and initialize the kernel and start loading devices then NO MESSY HACKING AND REVERSE ENGINEERING OF BOOT LOADERS is required: creating a simply DEFAULT.XBE simulacrum BIOS is OBVIOUSLY the only solution.

You clearly haven't studied your own hardware very much if you believe this to be the case; it is impossible to run an unmodified NTLDR on the Xbox even if a perfect simulation of the PC BIOS is available, simply because PCI bus access does not use BIOS services (the PCI address space is programmed directly) and as soon as NTDETECT tries to enumerate 0:0.1 and 0:0.2 on the PCI bus the Xbox will freeze. There is nothing a BIOS simulation can do to prevent this; it's a hardware bug in the Xbox northbridge, as you would of course know *grin*. Avoiding it without modifying NTLDR/NTDETECT would require complete virtualisation of the hardware, not just a BIOS, which defeats the point of attempting to port the OS natively. There are other things that will cause problems (though not completely prevent booting) too: the different 8254 PIT frequency will screw up Windows' ability to keep time, for a start.

QUOTE

What do you need to do other than create a BIOS default.xbe to get Windows on XBOX
NOTHING

Go play with your hardware some more, rather than trusting the spec sheets.

I really must applaud you for amusing me, though.

[billgates666]

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

Well, you're damned hilarious, I'll give you credit for that. Your forum etiquette leaves a little to be desired though; perhaps you're too used to being surrounded by flunkies who don't mind being abused? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

:jester Of course ! I am too used to being surrounded by flunkies who don't mind being abused; I am the director of Microsoft (or M$ as I like to refer to the evil empire) and those flunkies are my employees {well they are actually demonic brainwashed monkeys with four anuses which are handcuffed to IBM typewriters and writing the great American novel whilst smoking cuban cigars and when I say "novel" I mean Windows Source Code ;-) } PS: the handcuffs don't really need to be there: it's just for my sexual satisfaction: we actually direct intracranial electronic stimulation of the brain to release phenethylamines and keep em happy: I learnt this from a TOP SECRET CLASSIFIED document that Allen Dulles wrote when he was in charge of the MKULTRA project as director of the CIA (I think that means Central Intelligence)...

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

Hardly decryption, and those of us who've read the source for crypt32 and advapi32 know that the NSAKEY debacle was entirely rubbish and there's no conspiracy there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh Torne, I was hoping you were smarter than this obvious reverse psychology... You see that "Academic"
shared source licence agreement you have seen doesn't contain the REAL RTM SOURCE that does have the NSAKEY backdoor in crypt32 and advapi32; as if I would be stupid enough to release such to every damn University; then the NSA would come along and say "Bill, you just exposed our TOP SECRET ECHELON back door to every Windows system on the planet containing this code and now we are going to have to invent SELinux and get into some contract with VMWARE to help us restructure the OS powering all those acres of supercomputers in the basement AND then we are going to have to assasinate you..."

Hang on. What's this: http://news.com.com/2100-1001-251927.html

Did I hear Robert Lemos say:
"You wouldn't want to do it on Windows NT, because you know nothing about what is going on inside NT," :-O

Well Robert Lamos my comeback is "You Wouldn't want to do it on Windows NT, because Windows NT knows nothing about what is going on inside NT."

Hey, how come once I said that MSFT shares dropped in value to almost NOTHING !?!

Well at least I got to say ECHELON in this post: there are enough keywords in here to give some analyst at the NSA a coffee break once ECHELON detects this and puts it on his desk; I mean the poor agent was sitting around bored to death listening to the jihad phone and hearing bin laden rave to his mother about how he has this amazing box that beams his voice up to some inmarsat iridium satellite and let's him give order's to other al-qaeda commanders. Hmm, maybe I should invent Windows for Terrorists before I get assasinated...

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

They'd have to pay someone else, since I have standards to uphold. I hold a number of companies' intellectual property in my mind by this point and am not going to ruin things by spilling the beans for something as petty as money.

HA ! For a start, I already KNOW you have sold illegal stolen source code and have proof of such. And come on man, do you really expect ANYONE to believe that ? If I paid you $1,000,000,000 you and everyone else in this forum (or the world) would obey my every ORDER.

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

Oh, it's certainly not the only way; if you read my later posts I go into more detail about the NTLDR replacement approach which is entirely viable. It doesn't require modifying NTLDR but rather reimplementing an equivalent, which is actually not that difficult if you understand the couplings between NTLDR and the kernel.

Ok well I admit it's not the ONLY way and I did read your posts where you go into more detail about OSLOADER.EXE and the replacement approach is entirely viable but you did not understand what I was saying ( Ill get to that in a minute). Of course I understand the couplings between OSLOADER.EXE and the kernel. I am simply saying one could write a OSLOADER based on the \nt\private\ntos\boot\ sourcecode and make a OSLOADER for the XBOX.

This OSLOADER would work in the way one is made for the ARC/DEC/ALPHA architecture where NTDETECT.COM is never executed because the Alpha's firmware hands all this information of the hardware to the OSLOADER and then passes the loader block informations and other coupling to the kernel.

You see my point is if you FIRSTLY make a simulacrum BIOS as a DEFAULT.XBE which mimics the mentioned Alpha firmware hardware detection routines or in simpler terminology PASSES HARDWARE INFORMATION over to the OSLOADER as if it were stored in space contained in the Alpha frimware (but really held within the binary simulacrum XBE pretending to be the firmware) then the OSLOADER would be able to pass this over to the kernel and execute.

An alternative is to not use the Alpha's firmware but to instead make a DEFAULT.XBE simulacrum of the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface;

see www.uefi.org

whereby the xbox executes DEFAULT.XBE and brings up a UEFI environment which then loads a UEFI program such as the BAMBIOS.EFI program created by the OSx86 collaboration team and based on the Bochs X86 emulator: A legacy BIOS simulacrum used to get Windows working on X86 MACs which HAVE NO BIOS;

see http://www.osx86project.org/index.php?opti...40&Itemid=2

AND

see http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/legacyboot/

Now, once the source code to make the UEFI simulacrum DEFAULT.XBE is re-built in the XDK you can then load the BAMBIOS.EFI which would do a good enough trick to load windows normally.

you can get the UEFI source from here:

http://www.intel.com/technology/efi/agreesource.htm

or IF YOU DONT WANT TO AGREE TO THE EULA FOR DOWNLOADING THE SOURCE GO HERE AND GET IT ILLEGALY:

ftp://download.intel.com/technology/efi/d...I1_10_14_62.zip

ftp://download.intel.com/technology/efi/d...i1_10_14_61.zip

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

(my colleague and I did it for the Xen port of Windows XP: a userspace utility in Xen's Linux-based Dom0 loaded the kernel and other things that NTLDR would load into a newly created Xen domain's address space, and set up memory in the fashion that NTLDR would, including the results of the fake hardware probing).

Could I please have a copy of the abovementioned executable's sourcecode, seriously, thanks.
Email it to me at

[email protected]

:-)

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

You clearly haven't studied your own hardware very much if you believe this to be the case; it is impossible to run an unmodified NTLDR on the Xbox even if a perfect simulation of the PC BIOS is available, simply because PCI bus access does not use BIOS services (the PCI address space is programmed directly) and as soon as NTDETECT tries to enumerate 0:0.1 and 0:0.2 on the PCI bus the Xbox will freeze. There is nothing a BIOS simulation can do to prevent this; it's a hardware bug in the Xbox northbridge, as you would of course know *grin*.

Sorry but I am the director of M$: I didn't know; I have more important things to do like write this POST. And like I just posted above I would not use a perfect BIOS simulation: WHOEVER GETS WINDOWS ON THE XBOX WILL make a DEFAULT.XBE simulacrum to boot and instead of a BIOS they would use the concept above with UEFI.

QUOTE(torne @ Aug 30 2006, 02:06 PM)

Avoiding it without modifying NTLDR/NTDETECT would require complete virtualisation of the hardware, not just a BIOS, which defeats the point of attempting to port the OS natively. There are other things that will cause problems (though not completely prevent booting) too: the different 8254 PIT frequency will screw up Windows' ability to keep time, for a start.Go play with your hardware some more, rather than trusting the spec sheets. I really must applaud you for amusing me, though.

How many times do I have to say this: You would have to modify OSLOADER and eliminate NTDETECT by doing such with the DEFAULT.XBE simulacrum of UEFI.

That is the answer to Windows on Xbox:

UEFI.

That's why the U stands for

UNIFIED.

[torne]

Bored of responding to specific points now, since you're just regurgitating the same things. UEFI is not particularly relevant because it still does not encapsulate PCI bus access - UEFI only tells the OS how to access the PCI bus, not the details of what is there (more specifically in this case: what is not there).