Post by: Iriez on June 11, 2003, 05:58:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Contest Note After speaking with the developer and judging the communities overall feelings on the matter, i have decided these things.. The author will not recieve his compensation for goals 1 & 2 met until he fixes the R trigger issue. He will fix this, aswell as release a MUCH improved version in a short amount of time. I personally feel that the public will be overall much more happy with the next beta. Yes, that also means that the contest for goal 3 is still open. To be realistic though, it is very unlikely that anyone but the current author will meet it. On a more personal side note, both me and the author are very disappointed with the current negativity regarding the contest and the beta. Its gone far enough for the author to consider just quitting the project. If this is how the populace wants to give thanks and respect, then further development in the xbox scene is going to be a extreamily poor one without developers like him on the team. |
I might follow up more on the matter after work, im out.
Post by: guile on June 11, 2003, 06:10:00 AM
g
Post by: pike-old on June 11, 2003, 06:23:00 AM
Iriez, PLEASE point the author to the PJ64 appreciation thread and tell him chin up...these idiots know not what they do (I think it's called cutting their noses off to spite their faces)
Post by: fOZf8 on June 11, 2003, 06:25:00 AM
And christ, the donaters did NOT pay him to do this, they donated towards a concept, it's not his/her fault that no one else entered the contest.
If the winner of youre local lottery dosnt buy a Yacht ou like, are you all gonna stone him to death???
Just keep yur britches on and WAIT!
Post by: chilin_dude on June 11, 2003, 06:33:00 AM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jun 11 2003, 02:58 PM) | ||
From http://www.xbins.org ...
I might follow up more on the matter after work, im out. |
Thank you very much for this post!
I personally was happy enough with the first release and i am amazed that a better release will be out! I do understand the authors feeling though with all the bitching that is going on....people just aren't gratefull because they expect too much now! As someone mentioned point him to the thread of thanks as that is where the non-flamers/bitchers want to air our appreciation. I once again thank you and the author for the hardwork...some people don't realise that you (Iriez) have gained aboloutly nothing from this and i am surprised at how you have managed to restrain yourself from flaming back... thanks again!
Post by: Heet on June 11, 2003, 06:36:00 AM
Post by: jizzlobber on June 11, 2003, 06:50:00 AM
But in this case I think a lot of people were mislead into thinking all those games were going to run PERFECT which wasn't the case... even though you (iriez) said it wouldn't be perfect (or something to that tune) I think most people were expecting more and that's where the negative comments come from.
Anyway this emu is BIG news, it's already the best N64 emu for xbox so i'm sure most people are stoked.
One more thing, a lot of the negativity i've seen isn't really harsh or anything... I mean i've seen a lot of "Mario64 is the only perfect game" type of thing and it's pretty close to the truth... I just hope the author doesn't see that stuff as criticism.
Post by: desertboy on June 11, 2003, 06:56:00 AM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jun 11 2003, 02:58 PM) | ||
From http://www.xbins.org ...
I might follow up more on the matter after work, im out. |
Well Iriez I think most of the negative comments are by people who have little experience of the emulation scene as a whole. Anyone who's played with emulators over the last few years knows what to expect I mean you've got a lot of people expecting it to play games than won't run on PJ64 on the pc. You might get one or 2 people who donated feeling cheated but I think most people didn't believe by donating a tenner they'd have a perfect N64 emu (If they did they were niave)
I have faith in the emu but after all it's just another emu and there's no need to cream your pants because of it.
You did say there would be issues and I think most people forget that me I'm as happy as a pig in muck.
Post by: c-2 on June 11, 2003, 07:10:00 AM
Post by: oswald on June 11, 2003, 07:28:00 AM
anyway, great work (whoever wrote the emu) ... and thank you very much Iriez for arranging all this and getting the donations together to get this off the ground. I think what alot of people are forgetting is that we probably wouldn't have a working (with sound) n64 emu otherwise.
The emu rocks, the contest got it to us, I'm willing to look past any slight descrepencies in the contest rules or what have you... who cares, I didn't donate, and I'm finding most of the people complaining about the contest specifics didn't donate either.
The xbox mod scene is kind of unique in that alot of people who were never in any mod scene before are in this one. The learning curve is relatively low and the mods are readily available, causing every newb and his brother to have a modded xbox and lurk here. As such, the signal to noise ratio gets pretty low, and we have lot more cry babies, nitpickers and fanboy's comparitively speaking. It must be hard to put up with from a developers standpoint. But I think it's important for the devs and coders to know that the old-school and the hardcore are still here and we ABSOLUTELY appreciate all thats being done FOR FREE in this very cool scene. Seriously, no other console, nor the PC for that matter, has had this level of emu and homebrew support this early in the scene. It's unreal. It may be a little hard to hear our cheers through all of the immature and ill-founded jeers, but we are here.
Thanks.
Post by: skabio on June 11, 2003, 08:17:00 AM
The bottom line is that this emu is very good for a first release, the potential is there. I for one would like to thank the author of this emu and every other person who helps me enjoy my xbox that much more!
Post by: survivorejam on June 11, 2003, 08:22:00 AM
What do you want ? More money ? a free __(inserts dream gift here)_____ ?
Man don't stop now that you are so close !
Post by: guile on June 11, 2003, 09:13:00 AM
| QUOTE (badmonkey @ Jun 11 2003, 05:26 PM) |
| I don't think the problem ever was with the quality of the emulator, or with people thinking it needing to be more. The problem was with the info not forthcoming about the contest aspect of it. People were just directed to a web page that stated that The Contest is Over. Clearly the released version was not meeting the requirements as people understood them, and I don't think there is anything wrong with people requesting/demanding proper information about it. I am sure that there are plenty of people also upset that there is only one entry, but nothing can be done about that. Though it won't change the dissapointment. A contest loses a bit of something if there is no competition in it. I would even think the coders would be a bit dissapointed not having the extra drive to beat out the competition. As said though... What can ya do? If no one else enters, then no one else enters. I would, as would anyone else I'm sure, be very dissapointed if the developers quit their work. It is definately not their work, which is at an excellent start, and is a most welcome and wanted addition to the Xbox emu library, that we find fault and bitch about. It is in the lack of info about the contest, and the developers must definately not confuse this into being about them, or what they are doing. |
That pretty much sum's it up. But no, I am takin as a whinny bitch who has little exp in the scene and no "real world job"? Please, wtf does that have to do with anything anyway??? I am not putting down this emu in any way, shape or form. I
just find it hard to think an author is going to possibly give up work for a few negative comments. (which weren't made by
me btw). There are some bitter people posting negative comments here but I think a few of those people have an agenda.
They were the same people who were fighting over the contest from the onset. And I think Iriez know's who/what I'm taking about. This is a fantastic emu with amazing potential. Potential I hope is realized.
g
Post by: -Gadget- on June 11, 2003, 09:21:00 AM
)
Post by: deleeuw on June 11, 2003, 09:22:00 AM
But now that reality has set in, I presume people will become more positive as compatibility increases and bugs are worked out.
Nice job on the emulator, whoever made it.
Post by: guile on June 11, 2003, 09:27:00 AM
| QUOTE (-Gadget- @ Jun 11 2003, 06:21 PM) |
| think its what badmonkey said it was that sudden closer of compitition on the site and no follow up info thats peeid them, kinda people .. well thats all i can think of as an excuse for them !! |
I don't know if your referring to me, but I assume so. I am not "peeid" at all. In fact I'm quite happy and if you can find any
post where I said a negative thing about this emu, show me. I just wanted some clarification about the contest. So, does that mean that I'm ungrateful????
g
Post by: Beelzebud on June 11, 2003, 09:28:00 AM
That being said, this emulator is very impressive! Some people just can't see the forest for the trees. I'm just going to trust that whoever was intelligent enough to make this emu is also intelligent enough to know that there are a whole lot more of us out there that thinks this emu is cool.
I just can't wait to see what the future brings for the N64 and Playstation emus. An enormous amount of potential here.
Post by: noodle1009 on June 11, 2003, 09:35:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| After all this wasn't a labor of love here, Iriez. He did it for the money. |
That's where the 'real world job' comment came from. All I am saying is that if he's ready to quit, it probably doesn't make a difference whether or not he was getting paid to do the emulator or not. Money or not, negative comments are never encouraging. If I got into an arguement with my boss and we had a fundamental disagreement, if he were to tell me, "well, you do this for the money, deal with it" I wouldn't take that very well. The fact that he wasn't doing this for free speaks volumes more about how frustrated he is with the negative response.
I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting more information about why the contest is over. I don't think you're whining. If you don't understand why the guy that did the port is discouraged by the negative remarks, and was thinking about giving up on it, thinking about a real world job is certainly relevant. I know that's why I feel the way I feel about this topic and I understand the frustration.
Post by: Mars10 on June 11, 2003, 09:43:00 AM
Thx for your time and effort you put into this project. (We love you)
EDIT: Stuff
Post by: mike4001 on June 11, 2003, 10:28:00 AM
So let´s hope he will continue his work and don´t care about people who don´t know how much work is being put into an emulator like this. So, don´t give up !!!
mike4001
Post by: AkumAPRIME on June 11, 2003, 10:35:00 AM
Post by: openwindow on June 11, 2003, 11:11:00 AM
| QUOTE (AkumAPRIME @ Jun 11 2003, 07:35 PM) |
| For christs sake, weve still got people waiting fo and complaining about a ps2 or GC emu. these people should be removed from the genepool |
Amen to that statement.
Post by: LumbraX on June 11, 2003, 11:26:00 AM
If I were an author and that happen to me, I would make a personal final version for myself, then make movies and screenshots to show everyone... (Then say something like "This is what u get for Bitching, a Movie and Screenshots of a Build u will never see)
Some people are just idiots these days...
Post by: AlphaWolf on June 11, 2003, 12:09:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| originaly posted by guile: After all this wasn't a labor of love here, Iriez. He did it for the money. I'm not complaining about my donation because anybody that donated knew what they were doing. |
| QUOTE |
| originaly posted by skabio: That and I'm pretty sure X-port and his team worked on his port a lot longer than the person(s) who ported pj64. They werent under any pressure to release anything until they were happy with it. |
Exactly the reasons why a contest of this nature is a bad idea, just like I was saying earlier. Even if this emulator meets all 3 goals, theres a huge possibility that the author will no longer want to work on it anymore because he isn't getting paid for it. Now with people like haikaru, they are just doing it because they like doing it, whether the money stops or not, they are still going to continue with it.
Now you might say "well, its open source, so somebody will continue it". Well, thats about halfway true. First you need to tell me who is both capable and interested in resuming this particular project? There are a few factors that downplay this possibility, the first being that this project was rushed, so theres a good possibility of the code being a bit messy and not very well documented, so it would be more difficult for somebody to just come and pick it up out of nowhere. Then, another author who would *possibly* update it might look at it like "damn, the original author made a hell of a lot of money on this, and I will just be adding to his fame and not getting any of the cut by contributing to this emulator".
IMO, in all probability, its likely that haikarus emulator will sooner or later get right to where this one is because the work is just going to keep continuing, once that happens, its more likely that somebody else will pick up his emulator than this one, causing it to eventualy supercede this one, where in turn this one ends up getting nowhere, and the donations end up being wasted.
Hell, theres a strong possibility that I am wrong in all of this, but this is the way I have always seen it since I first heard of it.
Post by: openwindow on June 11, 2003, 12:24:00 PM
Let me break it down here for you. You donated money to a project. You didn't donate it to a specific programmer. You didn't donate it for a specific code base. You donated for someone to have working code with an 8 meg rom by June 9th. Mission accomplished.
The source code was released. Mission accomplished.
The GOAL of the PROJECT was met. Mission accomplished.
You get what you donated for, the developer gets the money, the public gets the code, everyone is happy. But NOOOOOO, everyone is now bitching.
The R button fiasco will be fixed. If you have VC++.net, take the 4 minutes and recode it yourself, it's that simple.
And as far as no one wanting to pick up someone elses work. Let me say this: Hikaru, Lantus, Xport et all have always picked up someone else's work. They never wrote the emulators themselves. They PORTED them (and have done an excellent job by any account). They, or anyone else interested in porting, would probably be thrilled to get a working code base to work off of. The people you mentioned haven't asked for money before, what makes you think that they'd be turned off that someone made money off of the code that they are using?
Bottom line: NO ONE who donated has a reason to complain. The rules were pretty damn clear, and the goals were met. PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T DONATE have no reason to complain that the money they didn't donate didn't yield what they expected. AND NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT THE DEVELOPER, since I don't see anyone else doing jack s--- with the code that was released. Money or no money, put up or shut up. What have these whiners done for the scene?
I'll get off the soap box now.
Edit.:.. I can't speel goud
Post by: explicitlyrics100 on June 11, 2003, 12:33:00 PM
Post by: explicitlyrics100 on June 11, 2003, 12:43:00 PM
Post by: openwindow on June 11, 2003, 12:46:00 PM
| QUOTE (AlphaWolf @ Jun 11 2003, 09:36 PM) |
| Correct about the continuing, however, re-read what I said about this specific scenario and try again. If nobody wanted to start this project to begin with without being paid, then what makes you think somebody is equaly interested in continuing it without being paid? Now, I didn't donate myself (obviously), but, I think those who did donate were under the impression that this emulator would go beyond what the original goals were. If they were told that this emulator would ONLY do what the goals stated were, and would never see anything beyond that, do you think they would have donated? Hell, if I am wrong, then more power to you, but look around a bit first. |
I think now that there is a solid code base to work with (and let's be frank here, the beta as it is now is a VERY solid piece of code for being ported around 2 months) with rom support, who's to say that it's not easier to build off of that? Lantus tried with PJ64 but was unable to get Mario64 running without severe problems. Now it's running near perfect. Perhaps that would be motivation to look at the code and build off of that? Obviously whatever development hurdle he met with has been cleared now, right?
I didn't donate to this project either, so I don't have any right to be saying anything about the emulator. But I didn't think that the contest rules were misleading. An 8Mb cart is playing perfect (let's set aside the R button, which will be fixed soon, for a second). The first stage is now met. How can anyone complain about that? It's exactly what it says.
Wolf, I've been around here for a while, as have you. You've been thru the LunarEclipse thing, Lantus' attempt, the Daedelus leak. We've seen it all. I think anyone who donated was skeptical as to the results. If they felt that they were let down by goal one being met, fine, let them say so. There are 3 pretty clearly stated goals there, and the source has to be released. I think asking anything above and beyond that might be a bit of a utopian dream. It's obvious going in that the developer PROBABLY is doing this for the money, so it's PROBABLY foolish to believe that development would continue beyond those goals.
FORTUNATELY, it seems like that's not the case. But time will tell.
Post by: openwindow on June 11, 2003, 01:00:00 PM
I would have liked to see a few competing emulators, but it just seems no one wanted to submit one or had one ready to sumbit. Nothing any of us can do about that though. We have only one PSX emu and that's working out so far.
I think it's just a little too early to be whining and crying foul. Wait a week or two, and then let's see where the progress is. It's certainly fun to watch tho!
Post by: alx5962 on June 11, 2003, 01:55:00 PM
We love to play xbox emus (even if those emus are not all the time perfect but they will if people still work on them).
And by stopping to work on its project , we - the admirative people- are as disapointed as the coder and the worst thing is that we did our best to help or to stop flaming people!
It's something unfair for me, so I hope one day coders will care more about us and no more about few dumb members.
Post by: AlphaWolf on June 11, 2003, 03:29:00 PM
| QUOTE (NerdENerd @ Jun 11 2003, 05:12 PM) |
| Any retard how keeps using the point that the author did it for the money should just think for a second, I know it is hard for most of you fuckwits, but what was the point of the contest? To motivate someone to port a N64 emu. |
Ok let me clear up what I am saying for a second. I have never said once that there is anything wrong with the authors motivation, nor with the emulator itself, and I never made any comment to that effect earlier (or at least it wasn't intended that way). What I am saying is that the nature of the contest itself is flawed.
In other words, as a direct response to your comment, the point of the contest itself wasn't well thought out. Ok we get an N64 emulator ported with some basic functionality. Then what? Thats it? What is there to guarentee that it goes beyond what the contest calls for?
Post by: Ed_209 on June 11, 2003, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: guile on June 11, 2003, 03:59:00 PM
| QUOTE (Ed_209 @ Jun 12 2003, 12:54 AM) |
| You can't make everyone happy. Even if the PJ-64x emulator ran perfect, perfect sound, customizable controls and the dvd drive ejected to hold onto your beer, people would complain about how unprofessional the menu looks or anything else that doesn't appear as a gift from god. My point is, there will always be people that appreciate the little things and there will always be cynical critics complaining just for the sake of complaining. Most of the complaints that people were making and the only one that I had was how there was no way to customize the controls. I wasn't expecting the emulator of all emulators, I mean PJ 64 didn't even run all that perfect on pc, so I wasn't holding my breath for 100% perfection. I mean, I am just happy that I can play mario kart 64 battle mode with my friends, but I still wish I could hop up and down in my kart...but that will be fixed soon. I'll just eat my popcorn and keep reading all of the drama in the forums in the meantime |
Why am I seeing so many people talking shit about all those unappreciative people? If you really read through these threads you aren't seeing a lot of negative feedback about the emu. There are a few, but not that many. I just keep seeing all these ya-hoo's coming into this thread saying shit like "You can't make some people happy" or "Some people will never be
satisfied". I have no problem with saluting the author of this emu. He did a great job!! I would say there are maybe three
people that made negative comments about the emu. Go after them! Nobody's talking shit about the emu here. Please.
g
Post by: Iriez on June 11, 2003, 04:12:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Iriez- You know I luv ya and all but this is bullshit. I can see the author (and yourself) not being thrilled with the negativeremarks, but he's already talking about giving it up? After all this wasn't a labor of love here, Iriez. He did it for the money. I'm not complaining about my donation because anybody that donated knew what they were doing. They weren't forced to donate. But for you to tell us the author is considering just "quitting the project", don't seem to make a whole lot of sense here. Peace and I look forward to your response. |
First of all, NO, it is not bullshit. A developers motive to do what he wants to do is his own agenda, and cannot be bullshit because it his HIS decision for HIS life. You have no place whatsoever to complain.
Lets just clarify the issue abit. First, he wouldnt give it up. He would continue working on it, but it would be private. I would have it, various respected trustworthy people would have it, but the thousand little tards on this board would not.
For all of you that say he did it for the money, and only the money, you are completely and entirely wrong. He spent 6 weeks working on this beta. This guy is a amazing developer. If making this port was his job, if he was getting paid to do this, he would be making 3 times less than what he's making now. Do you really think he needs it? Lets not forget there will be donations to emulation64 and what not from the winnings. The fact is, he's a developer. He does what he does because he likes writing code, and he likes seeing a happy face on the end user. People dont release public programs because they are selfish by nature.
Given this scenario, if 75% of the public did nothing but bitch whine and moan about your program, tell me, what exactly is the motivation to continue the project? If its personal motivation that continues the project after the point of nonstop bitching, then the project becomes personal, not public.
Is it wrong of him to feel let down when everyone bitches after he just spent 6 freaking weeks on this project? I mean christ, what are you guys, dense? We are talking about a work of art here. If your not a developer you cannot understand the frustrations and quarrels involved in a scenario like this.
Also, when did i say he was GOING to quit? I said considered. It was a passing thought. Such things happen in negative scenarios. Such things happen when stress is put upon you. Thats life.
| QUOTE |
| theres a huge possibility that the author will no longer want to work on it anymore because he isn't getting paid for it. Now with people like haikaru, they are just doing it because they like doing it, whether the money stops or not, they are still going to continue with it.IMO, in all probability, its likely that haikarus emulator will sooner or later get right to where this one is because the work is just going to keep continuing, once that happens, its more likely that somebody else will pick up his emulator than this one, causing it to eventualy supercede this one, where in turn this one ends up getting nowhere, and the donations end up being wasted. |
This is entirely untrue. He's not 'getting paid' for it. He is being compensated for his personal work. As i have stated from the beggining of open PR statements regarding this project, he has always planed to continue the project. Or did you miss the ten thousand posts i made that said that?
Also, not to talk shit on hikaru, but the guy has zero motivation. He starts a project, works a week on it, and releases it. Then he releases a new version within 5 days with fixes. The end. He has never progressivly continued a project. He will never *ever* get close to what pj64-X has *currently* achived. I think you dont have a clue how much sweat has gone into this port.
I also find it very unlikely that anyone will pick up the pj64-X sources and do something fantastic with it. This guy has been dealing with this code for 6 weeks straight, and has achieved what a respected developer said would never happen. Its obvious this wasnt pie and cake, and having a outside source 'pick it up' and do major progression is unlikely. The current author will continue the developerment and kick ass as he always has.
| QUOTE |
| I think this is in a way X-Ports fault. Before you start flamming let me explain. When he released his first try at the psx it played way to many games to well. Not that this is a bad thing but I think people came to expect that someone would be able to do the same thing with the n64. The fact is these systems are completely different. That and I'm pretty sure X-port and his team worked on his port a lot longer than the person(s) who ported pj64. |
To clarify this scenario, N64 emulation is *alot* harder on the xbox than psx. Two entirely different platforms. Also, im not going into specifics because im not sure if XPort would appreciate it, but PJ64-X's development in total hours spent is a reasonable amount more than what was spent on pcsxbox (to my best knowledge) ...i could be wrong =)
After all this wasn't a labor of love here, Iriez. He did it for the money.
I feel sorry that people like you exist. You make statements regarding reality that is entirely unrealistic. For you to make a personal judgement on another human beings agenda without knowing that person is flat out absolutly ludicrous.
Lets remember one thing about N64 emulation aswell guys...
PJ64-X by default comes with Jabo's graphics plugin and zlimar's sound ( i believe ) ...both of which are closed source. You can use neither of those plugins when porting to xbox. To compare PJ64 on the PC to PJ64-X is a completely biased comparison, and by nature unfair.
Also, i would like to apologize for the hasty decision. It was 4am when i made the contest closed statement and i was a little delerious = ) No one should be shot down for demanding more of a explanation, each and every donee has a right to know. You guys helped make this happen.
Post by: dmb062082 on June 11, 2003, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: guile on June 11, 2003, 04:41:00 PM
| QUOTE (Iriez @ Jun 12 2003, 01:12 AM) |
| Also, i would like to apologize for the hasty decision. It was 4am when i made the contest closed statement and i was a little delerious = ) No one should be shot down for demanding more of a explanation, each and every donee has a right to know. You guys helped make this happen. |
Ok, was that so difficult??? You feel sorry that I exist you say? That's a good one. Maybe I was wrong with that comment but I also felt since he wasn't getting the "thanks and respect" he deserved, he was after all getting the pot. Am I so off
base for thinking that? Maybe he is someone who is passionate about doing this. And $2500 is really a pretty small amount of money for the time he probably invested in this. I NEVER said a bad thing about this emu. I just wanted a little clarification
(Which you gave me, thanks) and you say you feel sorry I exist?? Nice attitude. The thousands of turds on this board???
That was really uncalled for Iriez. If you really read some of the threads, I would say there are no more then 5 people actually talking shit about the emu. That will always happen. They are probably children. I really don't appreciate your little
comment though. Thanks for the fucking well wishes
g
Post by: Roam on June 11, 2003, 05:14:00 PM
To prove those 75% wrong, and reward the 25% that are actually rooting your project. Copping out completely and leaving those 25% in the dust would make the author no better than that 75% that were bitching, but I guess that's his right if he wants to.
Post by: bombzhome on June 11, 2003, 05:46:00 PM
P.S. i was personally OBSESSED with this emu..GO AUTHOR! whoever the he|| r..lol
Post by: GaijinPunch on June 11, 2003, 07:04:00 PM
Post by: tom_g05 on June 11, 2003, 08:38:00 PM
.
Post by: Iriez on June 11, 2003, 08:45:00 PM
Its expected to get whiners and complainers. Its NOT expected, and certianlly not appreciated to get it on such a large scale. It accomplishes absolutly nothing, except for discouragement.
Like someone said, the only reason there is a appreciation thread is because everyone knows there's just going to be a excessive amount of bitching.
Post by: dmb062082 on June 11, 2003, 08:59:00 PM
Post by: dmb062082 on June 11, 2003, 09:15:00 PM
| QUOTE (Drewus @ Jun 12 2003, 06:02 AM) |
| Nowhere in the contest criteria does it say that the guy has to continue work on the project. As long as he has met the goals then he has every right to take the money, and just like Iriez has pointed out, the guy WILL fix the control problem thus making him eligable to win. Seriously, what the hell pleases you people? Over a week ago before the emulator was released you had shit all to use other than an N64 emulator with no sound and no compatibility with other games other than M64. Now you have a project that has atleast met the criteria in a competition that YOU donated to, knowing full well what the goals were, and you are still not happy. The competition doesn't even come into it anymore, it's come down to a bunch of hyped up 11 year old fanboy's expecting far too much and not getting what they wanted. And because of this they are using the competition as a scapegoat. Show some support for the guy for fucks sake, he did what you wanted by creating a project that was said to be impossible to create (fact) and now he get's backstabbed by the very same community he was working for. If you atleast gave him some encouragement then maybe he will want to continue working on the project, but at the moment i cant blame him if he wants to grab the money and run, i sure as hell would. |
dude people have every right to bitch. They can bitch about the sky being blue if they want to and thats fine. Suck it up, you wont ever get away from it just learn to accept it and deal with it because it will allways be there. Sure I would like to smack some of them, and some also bring up a few valid points as well. No point in bitching back. You would probably get more satisfaction sitting back and laughing at them.
Post by: TwisTz on June 11, 2003, 09:19:00 PM
| QUOTE (dmb062082 @ Jun 12 2003, 06:15 AM) | ||
dude people have every right to bitch. They can bitch about the sky being blue if they want to and thats fine. Suck it up, you wont ever get away from it just learn to accept it and deal with it because it will allways be there. Sure I would like to smack some of them, and some also bring up a few valid points as well. No point in bitching back. You would probably get more satisfaction sitting back and laughing at them. |
I bet all the people that are bitching are < 13 years old, cause they sound like a bunch of spoilt brats.
Post by: dmb062082 on June 11, 2003, 09:32:00 PM
| QUOTE (Drewus @ Jun 12 2003, 06:25 AM) |
| Thank you dmb for that insightful reply, i feel like my soul has been cleansed by you're words. From now on i'll make sure i accept everyone's bullshit, put up with people making uncalled outbursts and generally just act like a rag doll when it comes to a discussion. There is every point in bitching back, to get my point across. Follow you're rule of thumb and the entire world would be full of people who think they know it all. Yes, arguing/bitching will always be there, thank you for pointing that out because you know, i totally didn't realise that. So because bitching will always be there, i guess i better go and bitch/argue with a few more people then? Talk about contradicting yourself......... |
what ever dude, just flame back! bitch till your little heart is content, im just sick of reading nothing but complaints everywhere, complaint complaints!!!! And NOW complaints about complaints. This place is turning into the dreamcast scene man! This is EXACTLY how it was before it crashed.
Post by: TwisTz on June 11, 2003, 09:36:00 PM
The Xbox-Scene is not going to die and its nothing like the DC Scene was before death.. that was much, much worse.
Post by: dmb062082 on June 11, 2003, 09:39:00 PM
| QUOTE (TwisTz @ Jun 12 2003, 06:36 AM) |
| guys calm down... jeez The Xbox-Scene is not going to die and its nothing like the DC Scene was before death.. that was much, much worse. |
yeah the xbox scene has yet to get that bad. But anyone who was in that scene knows from looking around here the past few days that it is almost starting to turn that direction. Im sure all this will blow over, but the past day or so has been reminding me of the good old last few days I was in the dreamcast scene...... all over again.
Post by: Iriez on June 11, 2003, 10:01:00 PM
Now that i have read various message board threads and irc channel logs id like to take this opportunity to raise some points and answer some questions.
First of all - get off Iriez's back. He had (has) the motivation to get people behind a N64 emulator for the Xbox - the first N64 emulator with sound for any console I might add. It's a dirty job - trying to keep the angry mobs in check and you need to respect him for it.
Next - get off my back. This project was actually started before the money/contest incentive was ever put on the table. When the source for Azimers Basic Audio Plugin was brought to light, thats pretty much the time work started on N64 emulation. I initially began working on my own Daedalus port but quickly scrapped it because i found that Audio Lists was not implemented in its code - which is why PJ64 was chosen. I believe the "competition" itself started around a week later.
Im a professional developer, and to be honest a few thousand for 6+ weeks of work is not much incentive at all. The incentive to me was the challenge to be first, to get results and i think i have succeeded on both counts.
The R-Trigger issue was an oversight. Do i need to yell and scream at my QA team for it? No, we are only human and we make mistakes. I implemented savestates for no other reason because i felt they were a good addition but not part of the contest rules. Consider it a freebie. Mind if i remove it in exchange for R-Trigger for next release? Of course you do.
People keep talking about the penguin race in Mario 64 being unplayable. I've managed to clear it fine. Sure its annoying, but you all need to take a step back and realise your playing N64 on your Xbox. Not good enough for you? Fine load up Mario with daedlus plugin, play the damn race, then go back to Rice. My point here is, its hardly a showstopper.
8 and 16Meg Debate - where was it ever said that every single 8 and 16 Meg rom will be fully working? Sadly even PJ64 Windows doesnt have that level of compatibility. Contrary to some "compatability lists" going around, Banjo Kazooie runs fine with Daedalus plugin. And please - 1080 snowboarding has bad graphics issues? Hardly.
Other Plugin Issues (Sound and Graphics) - Remember people, we can only base our work on the plugins that have source code available. You guys need to show some respect to Rice for his excellent plugins which will get better and better over time. And hope to hell he keeps them open source. Donating to him would be a very good idea at this point.
Just because PJ64 Windows runs things without graphics issues doesnt mean PJ64-X will. And please keep in mind the latest source build for PJ64 is 1.4 only. 1.5 and greater is currently not open source. What does this all mean? Things you might expect to work might break, graphics issues will occur, sound may not be up to scratch etc. Deal with it. Still not happy? Then delete PJ64-X off your Xbox and go and cry to mommy.
So here we are. Would you like PJ64-X to continue and kick some ass, or will the flamewars, criticisms, stupidity continue? Either way im not bothered. Private releases or public, you can decide the outcome.
Post by: openwindow on June 11, 2003, 10:07:00 PM
There are people who donated, didn't donate, ran the contest and developed the product that are telling you that all will be ok even when you bitch out everyone down the line. Grow up and be patient and thankful that people smarter than you are working to make you happy. Jeez.
Post by: tom_g05 on June 11, 2003, 10:44:00 PM
BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU"VE GOT AND BE HAPPY IT WAS POSSIBLE
Thanks goes to Dr.Eggman, Irez and the Author for making this possible.
Post by: XDAWG on June 11, 2003, 10:50:00 PM
Post by: ejx982 on June 11, 2003, 11:16:00 PM
Whining/bitching *WILL* kill the XBOX Scene, I feel it's just a matter of time. So keep up the great work buddy, I just hope you realize that for every whiner and guy that complains, there are 5 users who enjoy releases such as yours, and the ones by Lantus, Superfr0, Hirku, XPort, are just a fraction of the talent in the xbox scene.
My 2 cents says you got what it takes to join them, but do what makes you happy bro. All I know is I enjoy the release, and hope you keep it up
Hades_ of ConsoleX
Post by: frank88b on June 11, 2003, 11:37:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Doesnt really matter that its only one entry. PJ64 is known as one of, if not the, best N64 emulator. Its open source, and ported to the xbox, with a devoted developer doing daily progress....what exactly would competition accomplish? Nothing. It wouldnt change a single aspect of his coding. If anything it would hurt things in this situation. |
Umm, no it does matter if it's an actual contest. In case everyone forgot this is America and in America rivalries, competition and overcoming adversity equals innovation and success. Reaching new levels in technology, art, science and such is only reached by pushing the limits created by others, not just by one's own motivation.
| QUOTE |
| Its expected to get whiners and complainers. Its NOT expected, and certianlly not appreciated to get it on such a large scale. It accomplishes absolutly nothing, except for discouragement. |
Like people have stated previously in this thread I don't see anyone bitching, moaning, crying over the emu itself. It was the dubious finale to the extended contest and the lack of overall entries that has spurred on most discussion.
| QUOTE |
| Like someone said, the only reason there is a appreciation thread is because everyone knows there's just going to be a excessive amount of bitching. |
Can't we all admit that we're trying to accentuate the positive as much as possible not to give praise where praise is due but to stimulate the continued progress of this port? People are so paranoid after time and time again of coder's backing out on projects supposedly due to the scene's cynism that people are fighting against that probability tooth and nail.
I also notice that the few people on this thread squabbling about viewpoints and minor issues are the ones with the cool heads and not the slanderous tongues........
Post by: jizzlobber on June 12, 2003, 12:44:00 AM
Criticism is fine if it's a form of feedback I think, but as you can see complaining is the best way to ruin the chance of a future release (whinging about money is bloody stupid).
I'm not just talking about the N64 emu here, all the devs involved in this scene don't owe us anything, without them we'd have nothing.
I still think the majority of members are stoked with this emu
Anyway I hope we see a change of tune here, the xbox scene is a good thing and I want it to thrive.
Post by: bartdesign on June 12, 2003, 03:02:00 AM
BjB
Btw: thanks irez for all the commitment to this emu/xbins, if it wasn't for you we would be nowhere.
Post by: CyRUS64 on June 12, 2003, 04:32:00 AM
Post by: Jse on June 12, 2003, 05:19:00 AM
Post by: Goatshrine on June 12, 2003, 06:23:00 AM
Post by: badmonkey on June 12, 2003, 06:34:00 AM
In all the threads I have read on it, there was hardly any bitching of any kind about the emu or those making it.
99% of the bitching and whining that so many of you seem to want to bash in a last ditch effort to save your beloved emu, was never even directed at the emu or its authors, and was definately justified. It was directed towards the lack of contest details, and its abrupt announcement of being over. Iriez addressed this finally, and now no one is bitching about it. Plain and simple.
All this fake praise is kind of rediculous...
NO NO NO Please mister unkown coder, don't take your emu away from the public scene... WE DO LOVE YOU... REALLY WE DO!!!
Of course we all appreciate the hard work the coder(s) put into this thing, and everyone knows it was the most wanted port in the Xbox scene. If the coders have any reason to stop their work, or to make it private for the elite few only, then it is just because they want to. It certainly is not because the scene turned ugly or demanding on them, because there is absolutley no such case. Any comment made about the emu not including this or that, or the lack of R button, was nothing more than seeking clarification of why or how much of the contest it won.
Post by: guile on June 12, 2003, 06:55:00 AM
| QUOTE (badmonkey @ Jun 12 2003, 03:34 PM) |
| Maybe I jast haven't read the right thread yet, but can someone please tell me where all these people are bitching about the emu at? In all the threads I have read on it, there was hardly any bitching of any kind about the emu or those making it. 99% of the bitching and whining that so many of you seem to want to bash in a last ditch effort to save your beloved emu, was never even directed at the emu or its authors, and was definately justified. It was directed towards the lack of contest details, and its abrupt announcement of being over. Iriez addressed this finally, and now no one is bitching about it. Plain and simple. All this fake praise is kind of rediculous... NO NO NO Please mister unkown coder, don't take your emu away from the public scene... WE DO LOVE YOU... REALLY WE DO!!! Of course we all appreciate the hard work the coder(s) put into this thing, and everyone knows it was the most wanted port in the Xbox scene. If the coders have any reason to stop their work, or to make it private for the elite few only, then it is just because they want to. It certainly is not because the scene turned ugly or demanding on them, because there is absolutley no such case. Any comment made about the emu not including this or that, or the lack of R button, was nothing more than seeking clarification of why or how much of the contest it won. |
Now that was one of the most insightfull post's in this thread!! Nice to see somebody with a brain.
g
Post by: mr jones on June 12, 2003, 08:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (guile @ Jun 12 2003, 10:55 AM) |
| Now that was one of the most insightfull post's in this thread!! Nice to see somebody with a brain. g |
Agreed.
Post by: frank88b on June 12, 2003, 08:41:00 AM
Post by: Krill123 on June 12, 2003, 08:55:00 AM
Post by: gainpresence on June 12, 2003, 12:56:00 PM
| QUOTE (Krill123 @ Jun 12 2003, 11:55 AM) |
| Badmonkey is right.. The only reason people said what they did was because they where un-informed. |
So you think no one bitched about this emulator?
Hmm, here's a quote.. and.. Oh my, it was by you:
| QUOTE |
| I can't believe I donated towards this crappy emulator.. People keep saying it's only a beta.. Well, if the contest is really over.. (http://www.xbins.org/n64contest.php) then it's bullshit . Cause there will be no motivation to make a second release. Hell, it's so full of bugs.. It's no surprise the author is "anonymous"... No one would ever want to associate they're names to this poor excuse for an emulator. ... Plus.. I hate the fact that you have to choose a plugin.. Mr. Anonymous should have made a list and made the loader choose which was the best plugin for each game. ... PS: For the messages to follow that will tell me to chill or relax.. Well.. Bite me... Cause believe me.. If you would have donated.. You'd feel cheated too. ... |
Ah hell, you're right, no bitching there.
Post by: badmonkey on June 12, 2003, 01:29:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| In all the threads I have read on it, there was hardly any bitching of any kind about the emu or those making it. 99% of the bitching and whining... |
And for the record... Even those that posted like you quoted, would have most likely been less harsh with a little more info on contest results. That person, though I obviously can't speak for him, was prolly bitching thinking that the emulator was winning the entire contest simply on the version released. If you donated, then certainly you have the right to bitch.
It is a great start, and I don't think anyone would deny that, but if it were to be the final release, than it would surely leave people with a feeling of some let down. Most of us can't do the work ourselves, and we are most thankful to those that dedicate the time to do such endeavors. That doesn't mean that we don't want the absolute best to come of them.
Post by: guile on June 12, 2003, 03:50:00 PM
| QUOTE (badmonkey @ Jun 12 2003, 10:29 PM) | ||
| Not to jump on your case, but I never said that no one complained. There are a few assholes that will always complain regardless of what happens. Perhaps you should in fact read my post. I said...
And for the record... Even those that posted like you quoted, would have most likely been less harsh with a little more info on contest results. That person, though I obviously can't speak for him, was prolly bitching thinking that the emulator was winning the entire contest simply on the version released. If you donated, then certainly you have the right to bitch. It is a great start, and I don't think anyone would deny that, but if it were to be the final release, than it would surely leave people with a feeling of some let down. Most of us can't do the work ourselves, and we are most thankful to those that dedicate the time to do such endeavors. That doesn't mean that we don't want the absolute best to come of them. |
Badmonkey- Gainpresence wasn't aiming that at you, it was at krill. HE (Krill) was agreeing that there weren't people talking shit about the emu, while he did talk shit.
g
Post by: badmonkey on June 12, 2003, 03:59:00 PM
Either way though...
I think most of the negative comments were contest related, and, even if slamming the emu, were in most cases a direct result of the lack of info.
Post by: Krill123 on June 12, 2003, 04:45:00 PM
Most of the time I'm totally broke.. but you see.. I believed in this so much that I gave. Gladly. Why? For the rights to bitch and complain? Hardly... Cause I wanted a N64 emulator for the xbox.. I wanted to be part of it. I wanted a kick ass emulator. And you know what? It will become a great emulator... If not the greatest emulator for the xbox. and I say *will* because what was released is a work in progress..
EDIT: Wanted to add.. Now that I am informed, I am very optimistic.. and look forward to see how this turns out.
Post by: NiCkO on June 13, 2003, 07:29:00 AM
lets pretend nothing has happened, forgive and forget, kiss and make up, all get pissed and party.
Post by: Iriez on June 13, 2003, 09:59:00 AM
| QUOTE (badmonkey @ Jun 12 2003, 03:29 PM) |
| Not to jump on your case, but I never said that no one complained. There are a few assholes that will always complain regardless of what happens. |
More than a few.
More like, a majority.
Since im dealing with the contest, Im the one that gets all the shit. You didnt get Private messages here, on irc, and see large amounts of people say stupid shit like "i hope he doesnt get the money ... this is shitty"
Not everything goes on xbox-scene forums you know.
Krill: no i didnt have a laugh, i made a mistake very early before work. I didnt want to change it until i fully discussed the situation with the author. This was the reason for the delay, as we are on different time scheduals.
You'll all be singing a different tune in the future, but i wont forget all the little assholes that bashed in the start.
PS- update: repeater glitch isnt gone, but it is less aparent. = / Rice said he has it fixed in 5.0.1 but he hasnt released the sources yet. Other than that, some UI / launcher stuff is being done aswell as implementing rice 5.0 ...shouldnt be long ; )
Post by: Methius on June 13, 2003, 10:21:00 AM
Can't wait till the release that will make SuperSmashBros work or Goldeneye.
PLZ keep doing what seems you can doe very well...
Methius out.
Post by: Krill123 on June 13, 2003, 10:33:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| You'll all be singing a different tune in the future, but i wont forget all the little assholes that bashed in the start |
I saw people bashing you in the forums... You should have responded then and there and made things clear. AND.. You shouldn't have taken it personally. Not easily done.. But a good leader will take criticism even when it's negative.
Calling us assholes doesn't solve anything.
Post by: Iriez on June 13, 2003, 10:57:00 AM
| QUOTE (Methius @ Jun 13 2003, 12:21 PM) |
| Can't wait till the release that will make SuperSmashBros work or Goldeneye. PLZ keep doing what seems you can doe very well... |
Super smash bro's will work in the next version, which will be out shortly. It has a few menu texture problems and some slowups, but playable.
| QUOTE |
| I saw people bashing you in the forums... You should have responded then and there and made things clear. AND.. You shouldn't have taken it personally. Not easily done.. But a good leader will take criticism even when it's negative. |
I would rather not be hasty. Things were heated up and that is never the time to spew info. Now that things have died and i have spoken to the author on a detailed level, i choose to respond.
| QUOTE |
| Calling us assholes doesn't solve anything. |
'US' implies you, and i didnt call you a asshole. Unless you think you are a little basher? Because i did not think you were. Its people like NiCkO that do gay bashing.
Post by: derf on June 13, 2003, 12:47:00 PM
, and they usually dont know what there talking about. Great Emu keep up the good work .Thanks
Post by: buckwilliamsca on June 13, 2003, 08:17:00 PM
| QUOTE (philbee @ Jun 13 2003, 11:19 PM) |
| Iriez, thanks a million for this great emulator, i for one am very grateful to you and the developers, i never tought id be able to play mario 64 with sound on my xb, you guys made it possible, thanks again |
Exactly, i couldn't have said it better! Iriez, thanks for everything!
PS Say thanks to the developer for me! not everyone hates the emu
Post by: Jse on June 13, 2003, 08:24:00 PM
bleh
Post by: Spected! on June 14, 2003, 01:18:00 AM
I mean the xbox wasnt even design to do all the stuff the scene does anyway...
Great work on the Emu! Mario Kart kicks ass! =)
Post by: TwisTz on June 14, 2003, 03:09:00 AM
Post by: desertboy on June 14, 2003, 03:23:00 AM
| QUOTE (NiCkO @ Jun 14 2003, 11:51 AM) |
| Fuck off Iriez, I'm not bashing about anything.... yea.. ok I foolishly expected a bit too much from the first release. but I've never said that this EMU is crap. All I've highlighted it's problems (that other don't seem to have that make them choppy, probably pal/evox related) which I thought and still do think need addressing before more rom support. I'm not arsed about bigger, or more roms loading.. I never have been. the only comment I made which was madness, was that I expected 100% on things like mario, and Mkart. don't know why I said that.. I was a cunt for saying that. But all this bashing talk? You are reading my posts with negativity.. I wrote them with positivity, and I've remained confident that this emulator will become top notch. What do you want me to do?? not highlight any issues? shut the fuck up? If you and everyone else thinks I'm a "Gay Basher" then please delete me off this board now. |
I think Iriez you should probably have released a verified compatibility list just a few games that work well and their goodrom name.
Put a stop to all this bitching because their specific illegal rom wasn't the right one.
Although I've got a doctor64 but only have UK releases which is a bummer.
(correction my wipeout appears to be a US catridge, is the N64 locked to a region because I think mine must have been chipped (Bought it 2nd hand))
Post by: evilnick on June 14, 2003, 04:13:00 AM
So yes, they were most definitely regionally protected.
Post by: Hercules Q Einstein on June 14, 2003, 05:51:00 AM
Post by: Krill123 on June 14, 2003, 05:55:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| 'US' implies you, and i didnt call you a asshole. Unless you think you are a little basher? Because i did not think you were. Its people like NiCkO that do gay bashing. |
Iriez.. I don't consider myself an asshole.. I think the xbox scene is fucking great.
I admit I may have over reacted... Should have sit back and seen what was going to happen before posting any comment.. Won't happen again.
As for people still talking shit.. don't let them get to you.
Post by: snowilli on June 17, 2003, 01:01:00 PM
Ciao for now, Snowilli
Post by: slidellsimba2 on June 17, 2003, 02:03:00 PM
good work man, and dont let the faggot bitches make you quit, thats what they want, or they would just give congrats on getting it this far since no one else has
Post by: Mattssogay on June 18, 2003, 03:24:00 AM
Post by: dmb062082 on June 18, 2003, 03:47:00 AM
| QUOTE (Mattssogay @ Jun 18 2003, 12:24 PM) |
| I was just wondering how does the release of Ultra Xle affect the contest? Are they going to get some money or do they not qualify for the contest? |
not unless the people who won want to dontate to oDD or that other cat. And i doubt they want to donate to him, they want to forget about him ktnx!