Post by: Evolution D on July 03, 2003, 08:06:00 PM
Post by: Evolution D on July 03, 2003, 08:10:00 PM
Post by: bzchi on July 03, 2003, 08:12:00 PM
The greatest affect will probably be the fact that there will be tousands more posts along the lines of "I just bought an xbox and my girlfriends brothers friend said I could play copied games.. is this true?"
*sigh*
It does feel very deja-vuish as the dreamcast didn't survive no-mod backups.
Post by: Evolution D on July 03, 2003, 08:13:00 PM
Post by: bzchi on July 03, 2003, 08:15:00 PM
To them it's not about opening your xbox or not.. its about playing Burnout 2 for 'free'
Post by: XDAWG on July 03, 2003, 08:17:00 PM
XDAWG
Post by: bzchi on July 03, 2003, 08:23:00 PM
Post by: powerben5000 on July 03, 2003, 08:24:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| and god forbid, Halo 2 canceled or moved to PS2. |
When the game franchise belongs to M$?
| QUOTE |
| It does feel very deja-vuish as the dreamcast didn't survive no-mod backups. |
Why does everyone say that PIRACY is what killed the Dreamcast? IMHO the only two things that killed the DC were
1. Sega's official announcement that they were no longer going to make/support DC (something MS has not done and is highly unlikely to do, even with this exploit)
2. Lack of a second axis (thumbstick) and number of buttons on the controller.
These are some intelligent thoughts and interesting ideas, but it's not going to be a nail in Xbox's coffin. I mean no offense, but it just sounds like FUD to me...Just watch, we'll see M$'s counterstroke in a few days.
Post by: Evolution D on July 03, 2003, 08:29:00 PM
Post by: Evolution D on July 03, 2003, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: powerben5000 on July 03, 2003, 08:37:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE . Sega's official announcement that they were no longer going to make/support DC (something MS has not done and is highly unlikely to do, even with this exploit) You do realise this was _after_ Utopia released their bootdisk? The dreamcast still kicks ass today. |
YES, I do. You are confusing correlation and causation. Just because Utopia released their boot disc first does not mean it caused the death of the DC. There are other factors to be considered.
| QUOTE |
| Dude I really doubt not having to joysticks lead to the demise of the Dreamcast lol. It was more like poor marketing, and the playstation had more games and more games the masses enj0yed. And howabotu people didn't wanna buy from sega after the release sega cd,32x and saturn. Don't get me wrong i loved my dreamcast very much |
LOL, it did make it much harder to play FPS's tho (try playing Unreal Tournament on DC, you'll see what I mean...) In any case my point was that Dreamcast was killed by a _number_ of factors(like you said, poor marketing, lack of confidence (tons of lousy systems before the DC) and not just PIRACY...look at PS1, tons of piracy there and $ony did just fine.
Indeed DC is one of my fav systems and it died before its time, but Xbox is _not_ the next Dreamcast.
Post by: msn25 on July 03, 2003, 08:59:00 PM
i really dont want to see it turned into the next dreamcast.
You would be practically destroying what you created to hack in the first place...
...WHY DO IT????????
Everythings fucking great as I see it... I kind of enjoy the cat and mouse game M$ is playing with the updates to their mobos and media checks... its interesting... but it seems with this... the cat and mouse game could have its days numbered.
Post by: powerben5000 on July 03, 2003, 09:08:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Everythings fucking great as I see it... I kind of enjoy the cat and mouse game M$ is playing with the updates to their mobos and media checks... its interesting... but it seems with this... the cat and mouse game could have its days numbered. |
Pfft....all it will take from the "cat" (M$) is a patched dashboard installed in all new systems, and a new dashboard distributed with every new retail game in the XBox Live menu...and for the most part, problem solved. In any case, how long will it be before XBox is at the end of its natural life cycle? 2005? Who wants a modchip for an outdated console? Just my two pennies.
Post by: underthebridge on July 03, 2003, 09:17:00 PM
Post by: rzyzzy on July 03, 2003, 09:42:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| However, if a large number of Xbox users can suddenly pirate games, you can bet that they will, after all, whey pas $50 for a game when u can just dl it for free. I am not condoning pirating games, just stating the obvious. |
In case you haven't been looking, chips have been widely available for over a year now, and some of those have been painfully easy to install ("pogo-pins" anyone?) A top-of the line chip still costs about the same as one game, and while you can't buy a chip at wal-mart, it's not like this is or has been "secret" information. You are throwing out the same line of tripe that the music companies do about napster/grokster/kazaa etc, and it is simply *not* true. Some people will do it, some won't, and just because someone has 50 ripped games does not mean they would have paid $50 each for them if chips didn't exist. In fact, I'd suspect that if people *try* a game that's ripped, they may be more likely to buy a retail copy for live - there's no doubt in my mind M$ will find a way to kick them, and even though they might get on live for a while with a ripped copy, eventually they will get tired of getting kicked off, as you know it will happen, just as it has with the pc versions of online games.
You can't restrain knowledge, period. There is *no* secure "copy protection", it is a myth, just like the "tooth fairy" and the guy in the red suit who supposedly left the X-box under your christmas tree. Deal with it!
| QUOTE |
| So in relations to a war, we (the pirates) just designed the ULTIMATE SUPER WEAPON! MUAHHAHAH laugh.gif |
I love this line - and while I think it's pretty funny, realistically, it took a long time to crack the xbox, and some pretty good minds were involved - M$'s best solution would be to push xbox2 out into market as fast as possible, and just make xbox1 obsolete. The box is already old, the pressure would then be on Sony to release a *real* competitor, instead of just repackaging 5 year old hardware into a fruity-colored case, or hyping non-existant hardware like they have been for the past 2 years...
Post by: melee on July 03, 2003, 09:43:00 PM
I have been trying to support the dead dreamcast for a while but, I fell in today when I saw one at target for $180 with jet set and gt 2002.
I had one question, you can do this with the 007 hack or you can do it by putting your xbox Hd in your pc right?
oh and will action replay work with the 007 hack?
Post by: alexkraemer on July 03, 2003, 09:57:00 PM
Post by: uziq on July 03, 2003, 10:00:00 PM
| QUOTE (rzyzzy @ Jul 4 2003, 12:42 AM) |
| just because someone has 50 ripped games does not mean they would have paid $50 each for them if chips didn't exist. |
Exactly. There have been sooo many games that I've tried out that weren't even worth the time to download and FTP to the xbox, let alone renting them for a couple of bucks.
The only games that will get my money are the really good ones that I actually enjoy playing. After all, when I pay $50 for a game, I fully expect to be entertained for more than a few hours.
I don't care how much money it cost, or how long it took to for a developer to make a game - If it's not fun, I'm not gonna pay for it.
Post by: bzchi on July 03, 2003, 10:09:00 PM
| QUOTE (alexkraemer @ Jul 4 2003, 06:57 AM) |
| I understand why we shouldn't pirate games (otherwise developers stop making them) but the business model of video games is pretty poor. M$ sells these consoles at a loss and in order to make up for that charges game companies huge licensing fees, which in turn mean that xbox games have to cost ~$50. If xbox games cost $20, fewer people would bother with mod-chips, but the exhorbitant price of games causes the piracy. It's the same for computer games. If they cost $10, nobody would wait a week on k*zaa to download it. Reduce the prices and people will stop "backing up" games they rent from Blockbuster. |
You're looking at it from the "why should I pay for something I can get for free" angle. Why should developers have to justify their efforts to people buying the games? The games are there for the entertainment value they provide. They don't come with a gaurantee of playtime and they are in no way saying you will enjoy what you buy. But to suggest that a game 'a' is worth less than game 'b' because you don't enjoy it as much is just ridiculous. I hate sports games in all their entirity but I know people who will take time off work to play these games.
The real bottom line is.. if you look at it.. if you're saying people are pirating the games because they can't afford it.. maybe you should look at it spinning on the other axis.
"Games are so expensive because people pirate them"
or maybe you should think about this this way
"Computer games are aimed at a specific market as is anything else commercial in the world, if you can't afford to pay for the games you play, find a new hobby"
Post by: powerben5000 on July 03, 2003, 10:15:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| you can't stand there and tell me it wasn't the straw that broke the camels back. How can you write a post saying that the lack of a second joystick is a contributor? I have never heard in all my time suggest something so trivial to be a contributor to a consoles demise. I play Unreal Tournament with my _official_ keyboard and _official_ mouse and its fucking flawless. |
The lack of a second thumbstick is a valid criticism. Look at the number of people who complained about the original Xbox controller - the interface is a *critical* part of a user's experience, and people _will_ complain about such petty things
. Sure you could buy the official peripherals and play with a keyboard and mouse...but that costs extra, and face it, the game is virtually unplayable without a mouse and keyboard. And when you have the same games appearing on P$2 that don't require these peripherals..well...I've never even suggested that Dreamcast was an inferior unit, just that there were a number of forces working against it...to say that piracy killed the DC is a gross oversimplification.
Post by: HumanClay on July 03, 2003, 10:20:00 PM
Post by: powerben5000 on July 03, 2003, 10:29:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Yes but look at the words that guy used lol he said the "ONLY TWO" reasons was the joystick and sega's anouncement lol. Literally saying their were only two factors is unsane and saying that one of thsoe is the joystick seems wrong haah. not to give u a hard time guy |
Ok, my bad.
It is my opinion, after all. Who knows what actually killed it? Consumers are very fickle creatures and often have odd reasons for choosing one product over another. I could name reasons all day, in the end it's just conjecture. The point is moot - Dreamcast is dead, God rest its soul...
Post by: bzchi on July 03, 2003, 10:47:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| You said it yourself.. games are all about *entertainment*. A game that's a lot of fun is definitely, without a doubt, worth more than a game that's only mediocre. That's why a game like Halo will always command a higher price than a game like Super Bubble Pop (or some other game that most people would consider sucky). |
Contradiction.. not at all. Just because you don't enjoy a game doesn't mean someone else out there wont love it to death and pay full price for it.
Half the chicks I know would play puzzle bobble for hours and wouldnt touch halo with a 10 foot pole. The other half would tell me to get out of the house
Post by: zqx on July 03, 2003, 10:48:00 PM
http://www.lik-sang....s.php?artc=2963
Sega found that making games was more lucrative than supporting one console not because of piracy...also Sony wasn't cutting them any slack(competition wise) at the time .. they thwarted Bleemcast....could've kept DC going.
The hacker scene made the dreamcast greater than it would have been.
If this exboxploit reaches it's potential than modchip makers will just sell memory cards with the hacks and still make some money....probably more...less production costs...I admire the spirit of innovation of the people who bring us all these goodies and thank them for their effort.
Post by: HumanClay on July 03, 2003, 10:50:00 PM
Post by: bzchi on July 03, 2003, 10:52:00 PM
and does it have their new copy protection system?
(Sorry, can't follow the link where I am, its filtered)
Post by: HumanClay on July 03, 2003, 10:53:00 PM
i don't think it has copy protectno but who knows
Post by: uziq on July 03, 2003, 10:57:00 PM
| QUOTE (bzchi @ Jul 4 2003, 01:47 AM) |
| Just because you don't enjoy a game doesn't mean someone else out there wont love it to death and pay full price for it. |
well, of course that's true. But you still basically said that the entertainment value of a game has nothing to do with its worth. when in fact, it has EVERYTHING to do with it.
Post by: bluescrn on July 03, 2003, 11:23:00 PM
| QUOTE (bzchi @ Jul 4 2003, 07:52 AM) |
| IS Treamcast official Sega? and does it have their new copy protection system? |
My guess was that the Treamcast is little more than a DC 'case mod' - someone bought a big batch of un-sold original DCs, and put em in a new case with an LCD...
If any 3rd-party was responsible for killing the Dreamcast, it was EA - their lack of support for the console stopped it becoming very mainstream. All the best DC games were 'games for gamers', not games aimed at today's average console owner - who plays mainly sports and driving games...
Post by: SirHexx on July 03, 2003, 11:51:00 PM
Post by: 2000ache on July 04, 2003, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: Rattle on July 04, 2003, 12:47:00 AM
Of course I see some kind of bootdisc/installdisc coming anyway, I'm sure the wav-file exploit mentioned could make this possible :/
/Rattle
Post by: 2000ache on July 04, 2003, 12:48:00 AM
| QUOTE (Rattle @ Jul 4 2003, 08:47 AM) |
| Of course I see some kind of bootdisc/installdisc coming anyway, I'm sure the wav-file exploit mentioned could make this possible :/ /Rattle |
And you still dare say it won't hurt Xbox? God, where's your
sense for reality ?
Post by: Rattle on July 04, 2003, 12:50:00 AM
/Rattle
Post by: 2000ache on July 04, 2003, 12:57:00 AM
| QUOTE (Rattle @ Jul 4 2003, 08:50 AM) |
| I said this hack itself isn't dangerous but the coming ones IS. /Rattle |
Then we agree this should never have seen the light off public day!
Post by: insertjokehere on July 04, 2003, 01:03:00 AM
Oh... and who needs a second thumbstick for the dreamcast when you have a keyboard and mouse (This was said before but I need to say it!!)
Post by: XbOxGoD on July 04, 2003, 01:04:00 AM
| QUOTE (bzchi @ Jul 4 2003, 04:15 AM) |
| Im saying if they can figure that out they can figure out how to install a mod. Simple as that. To them it's not about opening your xbox or not.. its about playing Burnout 2 for 'free' |
this is the shit i didn't want to hear.
as soon as this shit hits the fan the software pirates come out of the floorboards.
i hate this!
expect a patch in everyone next default.xbe that updates everyone's kernel
Post by: Loranga on July 04, 2003, 01:07:00 AM
Post by: Potenza on July 04, 2003, 01:37:00 AM
| QUOTE (oriadd @ Jul 4 2003, 10:20 AM) |
| just to clear something up. maybe some of you have poor memories. Sega announced that they'd stop supporting the Dreamcast within weeks or months of the release of the first self-booting games for download. I don't feel this was just a coincidence. They'd been supporting systems for which they'd been reporting losses on forever. Like SirHexx, I also know friends who spend as much on games and accesories for systems that have been modded as for those which they haven't modded. Whether Micr@soft pulls the plug on the XBOX remains to be seen. I'm sure they have something up their sleeve. ( or maybe just hope. I'm rather fond of new XBOX games) |
Maybe DC died because it was hell to programm a game for it?
So not a lot of developers where interested?
Post by: WarDogz on July 04, 2003, 01:47:00 AM
Fuck you Free-x
Post by: DuggyUK on July 04, 2003, 01:56:00 AM
If someone wants to play pirate games they can get a modchip for peanuts (cheapmod). This is ANOTHER way...if they cant solder then they can use the 007 hack; which incidently is easier than this hack as getting the files on the xbox is simple that way.
I for one am happy this has come out. Power to the people and all that.... again is someone WANTS to pirate there are easier ways than this.
Post by: Ubergeek on July 04, 2003, 01:58:00 AM
| QUOTE (WarDogz @ Jul 4 2003, 10:47 AM) |
| The people who will gain the most from this are counterfeiters. Software modified copies that will boot in an unmoded box..... its a fuckin dream for them. I see the warehouses in hongkong filling up now. Fuck you Free-x |
this aint gonna happen - this hack is no where near this and 99% of noobs reading about this hack are so obviousley going to think this is how its gonna be
its not - if you want a complete no fuss solution - use a mod - which has been available from $5 - $50 now for over a year - so this is nothing new - its just yet another exploit
in fact from a legal point of view free-x have done all the mod manufacturers a HUGE favour
Post by: powerben5000 on July 04, 2003, 02:02:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Im just trying to strike a comparison with this discovery and that of the Utopia Boot CD (the group, which I might add.. got shutdown during operation buccaneer for their efforts if I remember correctly) |
I think you answered your own question. If you're going to draw a comparison between DC's Utopia disc and this exploit, I would draw a comparison between PSX and Dreamcast - piracy was much easier on Playstation than Dreamcast. You could do that old skool "Rent, Burn, Own" with little difficulty. Modchips weren't required on early models either (kind of like the situation occuring right now with XBox). Did the PSX Die? Hardly...they had a ton of cheap and good titles that were tons of fun.
I don't have to prove that piracy didn't kill the DC...you have to prove that it DID (the burden of proof rests with the party making the positive claim.)
Post by: Ubergeek on July 04, 2003, 02:04:00 AM
Post by: bzchi on July 04, 2003, 02:10:00 AM
As for PSX being able to boot with no mod... yeah in the 10xx series with a dodgy swap trick (similar to generation 1 saturn swap trick). Ask anyone that you know that owns a PSX if they have ever executed the no mod swap trick. The external mod did hit psx pretty hard, thus the 90xx series removing the serial io adapater.
As for Rent Burn Own.. sure its not as bad as psx, and its harder than DC... but a lot of the people that are too cheap to buy the games are also too cheap to hire them out.. The thing slowing XBOX down is that people don't have access to DVDR's now like they did to CDR's when DC was big.
I grow tired of this discussion however as I am not perticularly for or against, I just like people to consider what has resulted in other similar circumstances.
Post by: bzchi on July 04, 2003, 02:12:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| sure you can swap discs with a ps2 without modding |
You can? only method I have seen for non mod swap was in early generation PS2's that required your PS2 having a trayswitch and an AR2 to boot, is this the method you are talking about?
Post by: powerben5000 on July 04, 2003, 02:20:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| I have stated my reasons for why I think piracy killed the DC, it would be in your best interest to review the thread. |
If you recall I've been steadily posting here since page 2, and I've been in debate with you since then. If you had read my posts, you would know that I respectfully disagree with you, along with the reasons why.
I encourage *you* to re-read the thread, and I also challenge you to conclusively and logically prove that piracy was what killed the DC. Saying that it "is no coincidence that the boot disc was released on date x and Sega discontinued DC on date Y" (or something to that effect) and leaving it there is not enough. Correlation is NOT causation. When you can prove this conclusively, please reply...
Post by: chukz on July 04, 2003, 02:24:00 AM
i think though that after a couple of weeks its going to be a matter of just putting a disk in and installign a few things and the Xbox will be able to play backups...hackers are smart.
Out of all of this the thing that will kill Xbox the most is if people can play backups on XBox Live, because currently that and the games are the only profit makers for M$ (the console has been in the red since it was released). If you don't need to buy games to play Xbox Live then it could be trouble...
you may say "well with PS2 you can play online without buying games (using backups)" that's true, but you have to buy an online adapter, which i think $ony makes money on.
the point? well its simple really, if this remains top-secret or requires anything beyond putting a disk in the XBox and installing programs and so on, then most of the people will not know what to do with it...the only ones that would do anything are the ones that can install a modchip (other than LPC mods, those can be installed by practically anyone) or the ones that have tinkered with their system (installed hardware upgrades/switches/etc...)
Now, on the other hand if it is a simple "insert disc and install and your set" then it could be trouble. M$ has been known for its exploits...it has been seen in MS Messenger, IE, Outlook, Hotmail, and many more ...one would say "it was about time"...
In any case this does seem to be some troubling news indeed. The idea of being able to play backups just by inserting a disc first...seems kind of reminiscent of a certain white Sega console that did not last too long.
I guess we can only wait and see right?
Post by: Cherry on July 04, 2003, 02:31:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| Maybe DC died because it was hell to programm a game for it? So not a lot of developers where interested? |
Rubbish. The DC was the nicest machine ever produced, from a development point of view.
| QUOTE |
| if you want a complete no fuss solution - use a mod |
Well... Using this technique, I could have an "unmodded" box running the latest X2 BIOS within an hour. But I have no need to do so, I think it's unneccessary, and I *do* think it's a bad idea.
I agree with you though, Ubergeek - there are a LOT more people with modded boxes than people think. In fact I can't think of anyone I know that owns some piece of tech, whether that be a DVD player, PSX, whatever - that isn't modded.
Post by: Lews Therin on July 04, 2003, 03:20:00 AM
Remember, despite what hollywood says, most revolutions that don't "stay underneath the radar" are consigned to the history books. Examples will be made.
Keep it small, keep it smooth.
This new hack adds nothing, it just takes away.
VIVA LA REVOLUTION.
Post by: nObedienz on July 04, 2003, 03:36:00 AM
*FUCK - I just toasted the pizza in the oven cuz' of this post... Double damn*
Post by: Jedi_Rainman on July 04, 2003, 05:01:00 AM
Post by: nix2k on July 04, 2003, 05:47:00 AM
| QUOTE (Ubergeek @ Jul 4 2003, 04:04 AM) |
| i'd just like to add that this will not hurt the xbox more than its already been "hurt" (or helped in my eyes - remember how bad sales were BEFORE the first mod ?) 90% of those who want or wanted an xbox hacked have had it hacked - there will be a fringe of new users but thats about it and to say that just becuase someone doesnt know how to solder so they wont get a mod - man thats so fucking naive - I cant fit new breaks on my car either, hence there are things called garages to do that shit for me and for those that think the majority dont know about mods - wake up - modding consoles, dvd players , cellphones has been goiung on for YEARS - almost EVERYONE i come into contact with who owns a console knows about mods - and they ALL know "someone" who can get it done for them the mod scene is much larger than some people give credit like I said before this hack is just another exploit - sure you can swap discs with a ps2 without modding - thats why DMS3, MESSIAH, JUDAS, MXL , F14 et al still sell in the tens of thousands this very day |
Finally someone from the real mod scene speaks their mind.. in the best way possible
Post by: msn25 on July 04, 2003, 05:48:00 AM
but i guess time will tell...
Post by: Jse on July 04, 2003, 06:15:00 AM
Post by: Jse on July 04, 2003, 07:14:00 AM
you have to replace letters to use it
Post by: TerrorShocked on July 04, 2003, 07:18:00 AM
Post by: TerrorShocked on July 04, 2003, 07:18:00 AM
Post by: ja30278 on July 04, 2003, 08:20:00 AM
Of course this will hurt software sales. If I have a monthly gaming budget of $100, and pirating games is ridiculously easy, would I spend that $100 BUYING two games or renting twenty and copying them to the hard drive?
Piracy is controlled by a sliding scale: the easier it is, the more people will see it as worthwhile. Say what you want about how "easy" piracy is now; pretend that you are a "newbie" coming into this scene before free-X. You have to: figure what bios are and what they do, what evoX is and how to configure and install it, find a reputable modchip seller, take apart your Xbox (risking damage), learn to solder (if you don't already know), install the chip, flash it, plus buying and installing a new hard drive before you can really pirate games effectively. Not to mention the people that don't know networking, IRC, newsgroups, FTP, etc. It takes time and a certain amount of technical savvy to pirate games today.
I don't pretend to know enough to correctly asses the ramifications of this exploit; i.e. whether or not in will be possible to produce a "mod cd" that is self-booting and idiot proof, but if it is, I doubt that this will be "good" for the scene. Call me elitist, but I think that some things should be reserved for the technocracy.
I don't want to see the xbox library any more anorexic than it is; I don't want to see more 3rd party developers sign exclusively with Sony because of the lower piracy risk; I want Xbox2.
But.....then again, I don't hate M-icrosoft. I don't hate them for being successful. I don't hate them for being wealthy. I don't hate them because it's trendy. (In fact, my only real grudge with them is how HARD they make it to get rid of exchange server. <grin> )
<aside>
Please stop the 733t $p33|< crap. Learn to spell and to use grammer. Commas are also nice. A period once and awhile wouldn't hurt either.
</aside>
Post by: Beelzebud on July 04, 2003, 08:40:00 AM
If Xfree really cared about anything other than piracy they wouldn't have released this exploit.
Rationalize it all you want. Deny it all you want. This exploit is going to have a serious effect on the xbox scene...
Post by: SupeRdUPErBlakE on July 04, 2003, 08:44:00 AM
Post by: splat on July 04, 2003, 08:59:00 AM
| QUOTE (Evolution D @ Jul 4 2003, 04:29 AM) |
| Trust me, everyone wont know about it. How many people do you know in real life know about modchips? |
That's why MS made the right decision ignoring these people. What's the bigger headline? "Xbox hacker group releases new exploit", or "M$ bows to pressure from hackers"?
Despite the apparent egos hard at work within this group, I doubt this will have any major effect on MS's market share or future plans whatsoever -- besides (if they're not complete morons) learning from their past errors.
Post by: brienj on July 04, 2003, 09:41:00 AM
Big deal, you can backup one, maybe two games to the hard drive at a time to play on Live. Very, very impractical and not worth it. You still need to have a mod chip to use a bigger hard drive, this is NOT going to promote a lot of piracy anymore than mod chips already do.
It is just not a viable or practical solution to backing up games. I am sure some people would be willing to waste their time to do it, but in the long run, this isn't going to hurt Xbox the way people think it is. If they discover a way to play backups from the DVD easily with the original BIOS intact, then there may be a problem, but I believe you would have to patch the BIOS, thus making you banned if you used a Live game anyway.
If you modified the BIOS to allow it to work, then this release is not any different than just installing a mod chip. That's the point, this is no biger a deal than mod chips are. People that only use this released info to play a backup might as well just get a mod chip instead, it is NOT practical enough to just use this exploit to play a backup.
As it stands now, the Xbox won't turn into the Dreamcast, and piracy wasn't even the reason the Dreamcast went down the tubes. Sega just didn't have enough game developers for the console, end of story.
Post by: XbOxGoD on July 04, 2003, 09:45:00 AM
this hack is very different from the DC bootdisc. simply because it costs a fair bit to run, i.e usb mem card, agent under fire/mechassault.
i think in that respect it's an ok alternative to modding your xbox, but i don't think this will ever offer the features a mod chip can offer.
also in answer to a previous post, it will only bring about as many n00bs as the matrix did.
only 2 things are certain, you can't play on live & mega x key sales are going to go thru the roof
Post by: HumanClay on July 04, 2003, 09:52:00 AM
| QUOTE |
| It's very impractical to use this method to run pirated games. When you have the original BIOS the Xbox can only "see" 8GB of the HD. (Correct me if I am wrong) |
With this exploit you can see the F drive i beleive. Besides you can always store the games on your PC thru FTP or just burn them to dvd
Post by: akula169 on July 04, 2003, 10:00:00 AM
| QUOTE (leef @ Jul 4 2003, 09:52 AM) | ||
um, it's just you. |
Have you seen the number of people with new accounts in this forum?
And have you seen how many times they've asked the same question in multiple threads? And they aren't direct questions either:
"Uhhh... I'm confused... how does this all work? Uhh... What do I need to do... Could someone post a step-by-step...."
I wish they'd take a second and read some other threads and check out the tutorials.... maybe even try a couple things, before coming here and looking for handouts.
Post by: hand_of_LAW on July 04, 2003, 10:01:00 AM
MS should have at least talked to them.
Post by: chilin_dude on July 04, 2003, 10:02:00 AM
Post by: dmb062082 on July 04, 2003, 10:03:00 AM
Peace im out camp is calling me.
Post by: brienj on July 04, 2003, 10:10:00 AM
Post by: KaptinKABOOM on July 04, 2003, 10:29:00 AM
| QUOTE (ja30278 @ Jul 4 2003, 05:20 PM) |
| "Not to mention the people that don't know networking, IRC, newsgroups, FTP, etc. It takes time and a certain amount of technical savvy to pirate games today." |
I think THIS is the Fact that everyone is overlooking. THINK about it... personally I mod everything, My Tivo, My DVD player, my Xbox, My Ps2.. EVERYTHING. Its mostly becuase of the challenge of doing it... well that and the fact that I can play a game and find out if it sucks before I feel like shelling out the dough for it (Like the fact that I bought morrowind, and copied Enclave), BUT I AM technically savy enough to do it.
Most people have no Idea how to program a VCR ... LET alone use a computer. even IF they make it into a BOOT disc you just have to pop in your xbox to allow you to play pirated games Not everyone will have it. Hell lots of people wont even care about it. If you go and do a search with Kazaa, the usenet, or on IRC for ANY piece of software for the computer you can find it... Still MOST people have no idea how to do this.
People DO like things with EASE and avaibility. But what you all are NOT REALIZING is that just becuase this seems eaiser to us.... MOST people cant even fathom what this new hack means or does. EVEN if you put it in a nice and simple package (like an ISO you just have to burn and use) 90% people will STILL lack the knowledge to find and or use it.
I used to run my fathers computer store. One time I had a conversation on the phone with a lady about how to, as she put it: "get the text off of the screen in MS Word to some paper", only to discover after 10 -15 minutes of trying to get her to hit "PRINT" in MS word that she DIDN'T EVEN have a FREAKIN printer. to which she replied "You mean I have to buy something else?".
Most people are not technically savy enough to burn a CD even.
At the Very worst this will just cause an influx of people who are just savy enough to use a boot disc to bust into the scene and ask stupid questions like "alright so I got this disc off of the net and I tried to burn it with easy Cd Creator but it wont play on my Xbox ... DUH what am I doing wrong??". Even then though.. the amount of people who could create the boot disc really arn't as many as people on this forum would have you belive.
But the likleyhood of this becoming totally mainstream and stabbing into the heart of the xbox is negligible. At the VERY worst it will make MS update their dashboards on all New xbox's to counter it and make games with patches in it to fix it. NOT everyone will use it... becuase as I said once AGAIN most people arn't even technically savy enough to program a VCR.
When MS First started creating internet explorer they were dirrectly competing with Netscape. how did they beat out netscape?... they started giving away their browser for FREE.
Ms isn't afraid to loose a few bucks in their conquest to dominate the market... so this will not cause the xbox to die, although it may cause them to sink a WHOLE bunch of money into fighting back.
Post by: sharkeater on July 04, 2003, 10:32:00 AM
it would suk if this had a bad effect on m$ cos they might decide to cancel the xbox 2 if the scene gets to big, but i cant really talk im a nOOB
Post by: SEViN on July 04, 2003, 10:35:00 AM
| QUOTE (quall @ Jul 4 2003, 02:19 PM) | ||
yes, I do agree, but those games were a bad examples. I'm pretty sure MS owns part of bungie or has a contract that they cannot get out of, so Halo 2 will not be moved to ps2. If bungie were to cancel it on the xbox, they would lose money so I doubt they will do that. Doom 3 may be canceled, but will also not appear on the PS2. The developers already stated that the PS2 cannot handle the intense engine of doom 3, nor do they want to downgrade the game to play on a PS2. Anyways, this hack will definately have a huge impact on the xbox. It will no doubt help increase the sales of xbox, but help decrease the sales of games, which is a very bad thing. |
Correct. M$ OWNS Bungie you dimwit! Halo was supposed to be on PC back in 2001, but M$ ate Bungie and released it on Xbox first.
The PC version will be out in September BTW. God knows how long it'll be before Halo 2 is on PC. Good thing I got an Xbox.
Post by: dmauro on July 04, 2003, 10:42:00 AM
I installed a modchip, and now I can go rent the games that are not worth buying, and yet still have them on my HDD to play. Don't think I won't be purchasing Halo 2.
I have a friend who just got an XBOX because he found out that he could mod it. He probably wont' be buying any games, and he probably wouldn't have bought any anyways.
I went to the hardware store the other day to get a torx bit, and the guy behind the counter knew right away that it was for an XBOX because he had had others in there doing the same, and he had modded his box as well. It was a small corner hardware store.
I don't really have a point here. I just wanted to share some modchip stories. I think modding XBOXes is more widespread than most people realize, and I also don't think this hack will affect things much, except making it cheaper for people to mod their boxes, and thus maybe getting just a few more people to do it. The greatest threat to an increase in the number of modded boxes is just word being spread that it is possible. When people know they can pay someone to mod their box, with an on/off switch even, then even the most main-stream types will be interested.
Post by: 4NIC8TOR on July 04, 2003, 05:00:00 PM
Post by: oriadd on July 04, 2003, 08:11:00 PM
Regardless of whether or not self-booting downloadable dreamcast games contributed to the demise of said system, this exploit just isn't the same thing. The exploit still requires you to get some obscure USB memory card or acess to the save from another source. I'm of the mind that the exploit it tough enough still that the average Joe won't just pop it in. It'll just be one of the ways people who'd have had a chip installed have it done by someone else anyway. No difference.
Post by: nix2k on July 04, 2003, 11:58:00 PM
Post by: stanneh on July 05, 2003, 02:54:00 AM
Post by: marduke on July 05, 2003, 03:41:00 AM
| QUOTE (falconsfan @ Jul 5 2003, 06:42 PM) |
| I'm not slamming the xbox, as it IS a decent machine and what is able to be done with it, amazes me, but damn.. don't say that piracy is gonna kill it, numbers don't lie, if the xbox would not have been hacked it would have died along time ago.... IMHO !! |
i agree with this, because i would not have bought an xbox if i did not know it could be modified, the thing that brought me into the scene was the fact that we could play snes, atari etc. games on the xbox.
Post by: CraiZEAH on July 05, 2003, 04:37:00 AM
this thread is now useless
Post by: mav on July 05, 2003, 10:47:00 AM
A> Cost of games is not related to piracy, it took a year before the xbox was hacked and durring that time the games had the same high cost that they do now. THe prices on the xbox games didnt go up when modchips came out. Software is always priced higher than it has to be. Always has always will.
B> Anybody who wants a mod'd machine can have one. This exploit isnt any easier than the other ones, and at the moment is harder than 007/mech and less powerfull than a modchip/tsop which can be turned off. I do believe it can be pushed alot further, and it will be, and has already. This will encourage a few more xbox console sales, but not enough to kill the system.
C> I think a number of people didnt read all of free-x 's statement. They came to the conclusion (at least thats what i read) that MS wants the xbox hacked. More Console sales=Bigger market share = more they can charge for licenses. which is where MS makes its money. MS has a few games they publish and thus make money on. but mostly its the license, it doesnt matter how many games the other software company sells, MS still gets its $$$. There is a catch 22 though... If its gets too big then software makers will ask ms to lower license fee or they will stop making the games for the xbox.
D> Is it good or bad? thats debatable. someone said whats a better headline "ms bows to hackers" "another security hole found" MS can fix this security hole easily a patch in every new game, a xblive patch. the 007/mech they cant fix. This is not the kind of hack that will force MS's hand. Infact it will help them gain respect with developers becuase MS refused to BOW to hackers AND can fix it in all future consoles, and with games/xblive updates. I think MS wins in this one.
.. let the hacking continue
Things i would like to see...
-free x style hack to launch a hacked ms dashboard (which can already be done)
-xblive clone (i dont wanna play on MS's xblive i want my own server)
Post by: roscoeac on July 05, 2003, 11:09:00 AM
Post by: m.e on July 05, 2003, 11:15:00 AM
| QUOTE (roscoeac @ Jul 5 2003, 08:09 PM) |
| everything is a cycle, MS will get smarter on xbox 2, crackers will get smarter too |
and newbies will seem even more stupid.
Post by: ripcurl on July 05, 2003, 11:46:00 AM
| QUOTE (stanneh @ Jul 5 2003, 10:54 AM) |
| hi guys i would just like to say that the dreamcast was dead at the start line when they first announced it i knew it would have some shit hot games cos its sega and they know the score like nintendo but their hardware was a failier at the start it had no dvd drive infact it used DG rom which i thaught must be more expensive to produce and more awkward for the developers and even if it didnt it couldnt play dvd in future it had no future the ps1 is a piece of shit hardware and every man and his dog had one except for me =] but only 3 peaple i know personally ever baught a dreamcast it cost me £50 brand new and i baught a further 10 games in time which cost me next to nothing but to be honest they where the only games worth owning in my honest opinion the xbox happens to be loaded with shit hot hardware compared to any console sega or sony have ever used mod chips never stopped the rediculous amount of games developers produced for the gaystation and it will never stop it on the xbox it wont die becouse bill gates doesnt want to look like a prick in public he will spend crazy amounts of millions to protect the name they have with the general public that wont question their superior. |
where did you get this info?? DG ROM eh? hard to develop for? you have no clue what you are talking about, not even gonna explain why
lock the thread
Post by: hiredmuscle on July 05, 2003, 12:44:00 PM
I think this hack will be the only way for people to realize that they don't have any extra rights to be able to pirate/run homebrew that the newer adopters who buy the xbox now just to run this exploit. You all contribute to the downfall of the xbox in the same way. I'm pretty sure most of the modders here pirate games, and it's no different than those who will do the same with the recent exploit now.
Post by: hoju22 on July 05, 2003, 01:36:00 PM
Post by: syztem on July 05, 2003, 02:49:00 PM
there's still a huge percentile of people who actually buy the games to have a hard copy of something. not just 1's and 0's. They actually like the green case, and the boxart and the booklet and whatever registration card that is included. Also, there's a huge number of people who dont even know about these things, and are far too dumb to even get to this point.
Look at the music industry, there's tons and tons of piracy issues with that, yet everytime i walk into bestbuy i see tons of people in the music asisles[sp?]
Dont for one second think the number of everyone online determines the mass of people buying stuff. no sir. we're just a small fraction of the entire people.
But! i will agree with those of you that mentioned that the xbox would've been gone by now if pirating wasn't made available last april. Or M$ would've felt like the loss wasn't so bad and just kept on producing.
* also, those of you who haven't played Mace Griffin Bounty Hunter. do it now! It was terribly underrated and i consider it the best xbox FPS, yes it does lack MP and other stuff, but fuck, it looks great, its long and hard [heh.], runs great, sounds are done well (i think it's the only professional 5.1game the rest are just mistakes) and running @ 480P [given you have an HDTV of course] is uncanny. The water effects give me an eerie halflife2 feeling.. !
i love you all, bye bye.